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For Ford, Fusion was the right car at the wrong time.


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Borg keeps saying Escape has been cheapened (does that mean not upmarket like we think?).

 

I could see 40K combined - 25-30k out of Escape, and 10-15 out of baby Bronco, with EcoSport around 5k below it, that'd be around 45k a month.

 

I don't have time to average out a few months of data, but for September, Jeep had Renegade at 8,099, Compass at 16,525, and Cherokee at 23836, for 48,460. I could see Ford getting close with an EcoSport > Baby Bronco > Escape combo.

 

 

No, I wouldn't say cheapened, the 2019 Escape definitely has been cheapened however, it's definitely the year to avoid Escape. To me the next Escape looks like a Focus or Mazda, it's not making the big leap that Honda CRV did for example. It's still a technological powerhouse and should be the funnest and fastest to drive. It's sharp, I don't mean to mislead. You won't be disappointed, I get the impression they intend to keep pricing where it is.

Edited by Assimilator
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No, I wouldn't say cheapened, the 2019 Escape definitely has been cheapened however, it's definitely the year to avoid Escape. To me the next Escape looks like a Focus or Mazda, it's not making the big leap that Honda CRV did for example. It's still a technological powerhouse and should be the funnest and fastest to drive. It's sharp, I don't mean to mislead. You won't be disappointed, I get the impression they intend to keep pricing where it is.

 

Maybe I misunderstood your comments then. I thought you were saying the new one wasn't becoming any nicer.

 

It's odd, you'd think with Maverick in the pipeline that they'd bump Escape up a bit.

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I said Baby Bronco (Maverick) not Bronco. I was thinking Escape would have the bulk of the sales with Maverick being on the lower end since it's going to be very stylized and rugged so that's why I was saying 30K combined - but that may be low. Don't forget you still have Ecosport or the Ecosport replacement and that will take some sales away from the other C2 utilities. I also expect Escape to go a bit upmarket with the other two filling in at the lower end.

 

The point is they're not just cancelling cars, they're replacing them with more and newer utilities. Bronco, Baby Bronco and Aviator are brand new and don't replace any current products.

I thought the Baby Bronco (Maverick) was the EcoSport replacement.....
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You're always going to split some sales, but I see Maverick attracting a different buyer. Escape getting larger should also bring in a few more new buyers.

Yes...I see the Escape going more soft car-like, perhaps attracting more women, and the Maverick being more trucky and perhaps more appealing to men, in a very general sense. If you think back to the original US Escape, it was a baby Explorer and even though it was a CUV Ford designed it and sold it as a true SUV. When the current model came out, it basically was a newer Kuga and it became a CUV...then in the slight redesign they tried to make it a bit more trucky. Now I see it fully swinging back to pure CUV and more swoopy, leaving the Maverick to be the butch sibling...lol

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The problem for me is that these new utilities just do not have the "utility" I am used to with my hatchback sedan. Less room, less cargo space, more wasted space (at least in the ones on the market now that I have looked at). Reminds me of when the Edge first came out - I looked at it and it offered less room and utility than the Saturn LW2 wagon I was driving at the time.

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Escape, Corsair, Edge, MKX, Baby Bronco, Explorer, Aviator, and the new "white space" vehicles are not trucks. They are just station wagons with mild lifts.

No their not. My 2012 Focus get 35 miles to the gallon. There is not one on these that even get close to that unless it has a electric motor. They are way to heavy and big for what I need. And what the hell is a "white space vehicle" ? It is where products and services don't exist based on the present understanding of values, definition of business or even existing competencies. In other words they got nothing.

Edited by coupe3w
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Thank God I got to grow up when it was all about cars and HP.

 

 

No their not. My 2012 Focus get 35 miles to the gallon. There is not one on these that even get close to that unless it has a electric motor.

 

So, which do you want, HP or MPG? You keep changing your argument? The Escape is rated at 4 MPG less than the Focus. If you drive 15k miles/year and pay $3/gallon for gas, that's a difference of less than $20/month. That's peanuts compared to new car payments.

 

 

They are way to heavy and big for what I need.

 

Did you know that an Escape is actually shorter than a Focus? The Escape is within a half inch in width. Escape only weighs around 500 lbs more.

 

 

And what the hell is a "white space vehicle" ? It is where products and services don't exist based on the present understanding of values, definition of business or even existing competencies. In other words they got nothing.

 

It's an area they don't currently compete. I would say they DO have something, they just haven't shown their hand yet.

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I'm not saying that Ford shouldn't be doing this, just to understand the possible consequences

of gong back to what Mullaly would have once called unnecessary duplication.

Im not so sure about that-

 

The Bronco is more or less going to be the Mustang of the SUV/CUV line up. The RWD Explorer is moving upmarket price wise I bet to give more room to the Edge.

 

Im pretty sure the Escape will offer a third row of seating to differentiate itself from the baby Bronco. Also Im going to assume the Baby Bronco will be limited to the 1.5 I4 and 1.3l Ecoboost engines. Maybe just to the the 1.3L Since it seems like Ford is downsizing engine displacement with each new generation of vehicle they come out with.

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The problem for me is that these new utilities just do not have the "utility" I am used to with my hatchback sedan. Less room, less cargo space, more wasted space (at least in the ones on the market now that I have looked at). Reminds me of when the Edge first came out - I looked at it and it offered less room and utility than the Saturn LW2 wagon I was driving at the time.

I don’t think the Escape has less room or less cargo space than a Focus hatchback. I owned both at the same time. A Focus wagon might but that hasn’t been available here for over a decade.

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So, which do you want, HP or MPG? You keep changing your argument? The Escape is rated at 4 MPG less than the Focus. If you drive 15k miles/year and pay $3/gallon for gas, that's a difference of less than $20/month. That's peanuts compared to new car payments.

 

Not changing my argument at all. I said I was glad to have grown up with lots of HP and mostly cars. I got to enjoy my cars. The Escape is rated at 30 MPG highway, but in the real world will not achieve that. My Focus does get 35 miles to the gallon in real world driving. And in 2012 the Escape was rated at 28 MPG.

 

Did you know that an Escape is actually shorter than a Focus? The Escape is within a half inch in width. Escape only weighs around 500 lbs more.

 

Don't really care, they are to tall and still to big for my liking.

 

 

It's an area they don't currently compete. I would say they DO have something, they just haven't shown their hand yet.

 

May well be.

Edited by coupe3w
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Not changing my argument at all. I said I was glad to have grown up with lots of HP and mostly cars. I got to enjoy my cars. The Escape is rated at 30 MPG highway, but in the real world will not achieve that. My Focus does get 35 miles to the gallon in real world driving. And in 2012 the Escape was rated at 28 MPG.

]

 

2013 FWD Escape Ti can do 32 MPG in the proper conditions on the highway.

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Are the escape and maverick basically the same size catering to different markets or is the maverick smaller?

 

It does sound like with the increased offerings in this space Ford would be able to target models to different segments thus making what they offer less generic. The Escape comes across a bit generic, the interior specifically seems bland. The new T-Cross VW is introducing in Europe offers some glimpses into Ecosport level possibilities that Ford could go after - It would seem to fill some gaps in their current lineup now that the Focus is basically gone and the Fiesta is very dated. https://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/new-volkswagen-t-cross

Edited by Fordowner
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Im not so sure about that-

The Bronco is more or less going to be the Mustang of the SUV/CUV line up. The RWD Explorer is moving upmarket price wise I bet to give more room to the Edge.

Im pretty sure the Escape will offer a third row of seating to differentiate itself from the baby Bronco. Also Im going to assume the Baby Bronco will be limited to the 1.5 I4 and 1.3l Ecoboost engines. Maybe just to the the 1.3L Since it seems like Ford is downsizing engine displacement with each new generation of vehicle they come out with.

 

Unless the Escape is growing to Edge size, a third row would be useless. A 1.5 engine will probably be the I-3. Hopefully Ford is developing a new, I-4 or significantly enhanced 2.0 as the top engine.

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Only if you are a sedan enthusiast.

 

If you are an automobile enthusiast, I think there are some very exciting times ahead.

 

As a Ford enthusiast, with the Bronco, Bronco II (sorry, had to do it), new Explorer, Aviator, Mach 1, and a whole bunch of new SUV's coming, plus hybridization and electrification of everything, I think it's very exciting!

 

The future is dim for anyone that likes a vehicle that is nimble, handles well, and sits closer to the ground...sedan or otherwise. "Active" millennials are part of the problem, but Baby Boomers are the real ones killing off sedans. It's unfortunate, because not everyone wants a high riding vehicle, and it means those sales are going to go to a competitor.

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Unless the Escape is growing to Edge size, a third row would be useless. A 1.5 engine will probably be the I-3. Hopefully Ford is developing a new, I-4 or significantly enhanced 2.0 as the top engine.

 

The competition all has it, so whether it's a useful 3rd row or not, it needs to get one at least optional.

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