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Saw it yesterday, good story behind the racing but I think they a little unfair to Leo Beebe 

and his part in the 1,2,3 form finish as he always said it was on him, the good and the bad.

There's a real human side to the story and Christian Bale does a great job as Ken Miles so

won't wreck any of the experience for you...

 

Absolutely love the sound of the GT, you get to hear it really well near the end of the move

and the 7.0 liter sounds awesome even today.

Edited by jpd80
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Saw it tonight.  Agree with JPD on the job Bale did as Miles.  As for Beebe, if he was a corporate a-hole, the actor playing the part was perfect- 100% arrogant corporate snake.  I have to dig out my "Dust and the Glory" to reread the LeMans section.  Also when  I heard Damon was playing Shelby I thought- nah-not enough cowboy but he too did a nice job. In particular last scene when he meets up with Ken Miles young son.

 

They could not have had many tech advisors either IMO.  They are doing a front brake job during LeMans- after showing red hot rotors and the guys are bare handed!  They are running side by side at 200 and the drivers are staring at each other?  

 

Oh and Hank the Deuce so scared during a test run when he is riding with Shelby he starts crying?  Fact or fiction?

 

In any case good flick that I don't think had one F-bomb.  Surprised Hollywood can do that today.

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1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

..... As for Beebe, if he was a corporate a-hole, the actor playing the part was perfect- 100% arrogant corporate snake.  I have to dig out my "Dust and the Glory" to reread the LeMans section......  

 

I haven't seen the movie yet and am not sure I will.  Large parts have been "Hollywooded" to add fake tension and excitement..  Hank the Deice never took a ride in a GT40.  Beebe was hardly a corporate a-hole, just the opposite actually.  I'm currently re-reading Leo Levine's book on the Lemans effort.  An incredible effort by so many people.  Telling the real story would have been just as good.  Read Henry Payne's (Detroit News auto writer) excellent review here:

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/henry-payne/2019/11/14/real-story-behind-ford-v-ferrari/2567859001/

 

 

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3 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

 

They could not have had many tech advisors either IMO.  They are doing a front brake job during LeMans- after showing red hot rotors and the guys are bare handed!  They are running side by side at 200 and the drivers are staring at each other?  

 

Oh and Hank the Deuce so scared during a test run when he is riding with Shelby he starts crying?  Fact or fiction?


Are you sure you saw the movie?  He wasn’t crying because he was scared he was crying because he wished his dad was there to see the GT40.

 

And in the movie the brake change was done by changing out the control arms and hubs so they never had to touch the rotors or pads.  But that appears to be inaccurate as they actually had a swing away caliper and free floating rotors.  I’m sure they used big pliers on the hot rotors.

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I was afraid they'd keep that blubbering scene. Between that and Matt Damon (I can't stand him), I certainly won't be seeing it in the theater.

 

If you want to see what really happened, check out The 24 Hour War, a documentary based on AJ Baime's exceptional book, Go Like Hell! And don't forget the book itself; I listened to the Audible version a few years ago while I was working on my truck (installing my Roadmaster Active Suspension, IIRC), and it took me a lot longer than it should've because I frequently found myself sitting there listening instead of working...

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It’s a fantastic movie regardless of the overplayed executives who were very entertaining if not historically accurate,  Damon and Bale could easily get Oscar nominations.  Especially Bale as Ken Miles.  The funny part is most Batman loving Americans won’t realize that’s his normal accent.

 

Its so much more than just a racing movie.

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11 hours ago, akirby said:


Are you sure you saw the movie?  He wasn’t crying because he was scared he was crying because he wished his dad was there to see the GT40.

 

And in the movie the brake change was done by changing out the control arms and hubs so they never had to touch the rotors or pads.  But that appears to be inaccurate as they actually had a swing away caliper and free floating rotors.  I’m sure they used big pliers on the hot rotors.

Well I after seeing that scene in the movie, as well as all the trailer shots, I read it wrong.  Guess I'm used to shots of people in similar scenes-Nascar ride alongs - where most people have a huge grin and end up yelling  holy S--- or some other phrase.  My one experience in a Nascar "ride along" was just that -huge grin and a lot of laughing.  Looked to me like  he had more of a look fitting a man who was absolutely terrified-from like second gear on!.  

 

As for the lack of gloves, again you must be correct, I'm sure there was absolutely no heat transfer from those red hot rotors? 

But as my wife said..."Bob! it's a movie!"""

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13 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

I haven't seen the movie yet and am not sure I will.  Large parts have been "Hollywooded" to add fake tension and excitement..  Hank the Deice never took a ride in a GT40.  Beebe was hardly a corporate a-hole, just the opposite actually.  I'm currently re-reading Leo Levine's book on the Lemans effort.  An incredible effort by so many people.  Telling the real story would have been just as good.  Read Henry Payne's (Detroit News auto writer) excellent review here:

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/henry-payne/2019/11/14/real-story-behind-ford-v-ferrari/2567859001/

 

 

Mack'w

Thx for that Detroit News piece..to quote..Contrary to the film, Ford did not conspire to keep Miles from driving at Le Mans. Nor did Shelby shame The Deuce by reducing him to a shaking puddle of tears after a tire-smoking test drive.  

As to  your reference to Leo Levine's book, is that "Dust and the Glory" or another book?  I did quickly scan Dust and Glory last night and my quick read says if anything Beebe was worried about last minute engine failures or an accident if the three of them were duking it out.  Nothing about an anti Miles angle.

And I have read enough Ford history books that I can say I never read anything that I can recall that depicted Beebe as a phony corporate snake as the movie did.  

 

But again, the actor playing Beebe did a good  job of conveying that image IMO

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2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

As to  your reference to Leo Levine's book, is that "Dust and the Glory" or another book?  I did quickly scan Dust and Glory last night and my quick read says if anything Beebe was worried about last minute engine failures or an accident if the three of them were duking it out.  Nothing about an anti Miles angle.

And I have read enough Ford history books that I can say I never read anything that I can recall that depicted Beebe as a phony corporate snake as the movie did.  

 

Same book.  Leo Levine wrote "Dust and the Glory."  

 

Beebe is the unsung hero of the Lemans effort.  After losing in 1964 and 1965, there was pressure from the management team to give up.  Beebe convinced them to stay in.  Beebe then had enough smarts to turn the actual racing effort over to the racers, like Carrol Shelby and Homan & Moody (of Nascar fame).  Basically Ford would supply money and technical expertise, the racers would build and race the cars.  It worked.  

 

I realize it's a Hollywood movie and the all Hollywood movies need a bad guy, but it's unfortunate they purposely chose Beebe as the bad guy.  He wasn't.  Without him the Lemans effort would have ended in 1965 with no Ford victory (and no Ford vs. Ferrari movie in 2019).

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rzq4DeTjZ1A

 

 

Very good, comprehensive interviw with Carol Shelby with a lot of background info on his carreer and relationship with Ford as well as later vetures. He also points out that Ford really helped his business by providing a good accountant so there was never any chance of funds not being spent properly and accounted. It added a lot of color to what actually happened in the 60s and how everyone was needed.

 

 

 

Edited by jpd80
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Hi. I'm back.

 

Got married between my last appearance & now.

 

Me and Mrs. Jensen went to see the movie last night. And you know what? I never thought I'd find myself defending Lee Iacocca, but that movie just did *not* do him justice.

 

Or Leo Beebe.

 

I mean, criminy, one of the advantages all the Ford factory teams had at Le Mans was that all of them had Holman-Moody trained pit crews. And that was a Ford corporate (i.e. Leo Beebe) decision.

 

But I have to say, the main reason why I went to see it was Christian Bale as Ken Miles. That was an absolutely inspired bit of casting.

 

Little details were great. They nailed Enzo Ferrari--honestly, I think he was more spot on than Hank the Deuce. Sets were fantastic. Loved the lit up Esso "Oil Drop Man" south of the main grandstands.

 

Because of all that attention to detail, it was a bit jarring when they used doctored up GT-40s for the J-Car and Mark IV, because I'd have to think that, as cheap as a fiberglass mockup would be for cars that didn't have to do much actual driving, they could've gone the extra mile. But you're talking what? One out of a thousand movie viewers that are going to catch that?

 

It was also weird that they recreated Miles' Daytona GT-40 with an absolutely impressive attention to detail, yet Hansgen's car was way off.

 

I mean, I can kind of understand why they'd do that. The whole point of the scene seems to be suggesting that Leo Beebe got Holman-Moody involved because he didn't trust Shelby, so it helps 'tell' that story if the GT-40s look very different.

 

But during the actual race, Hansgen's GT-40 looked just like Miles'. In fact, I'm about 99.99% positive that the red stripes on Miles' car, the green stripes on Hansgen's, and Gurney's blue stripes (as well as the large circles applied to other cars) were done before the race because the cars were numbered sequentially in the 90s, were otherwise identical, and the bright colored patches would make them easier to identify. The colors were only applied on the infield sides of the cars.

 

Of course, showing mostly identical cars would make it harder to believe that HM & Shelby were at odds with each other. It would almost look like HM & Shelby were part of a coordinated factory effort..... ?

 

I was not expecting much from Matt Damon as Shelby--I figured he was too much of a real-life character for Hollywood, that they would've turned him into a caricature, but Damon's actually pretty restrained.

 

And that scene where Carroll sells the same Cobra three times---I mean that, in a nutshell, was ol' Shel. He bit off more than he could chew with the Le Mans efforts, but there's no way on Earth Ford would have won at Le Mans without him. Ken Miles' death hit him hard too. Robert Lane met Shelby once, with a friend of his. Robert told his friend not to make a fool out of himself, and they had barely started talking when his friend said, 'What happened to Ken Miles?' and Shelby said, "The goddamn car just broke up on him" and turned around and walked away.

 

Thoroughly enjoyed most of the movie. They went to such lengths to get certain things right, so I found the deliberate mischaracterizations (and outright bungling of facts, like Ken Miles being kept back from Le Mans in '65) jarring--kind of takes you out of the moment.

 

 

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What????  You think you can go away like that and just waltz back into our lives like you never left and expect us to just pretend you never left?

 

Of course you can!   Welcome back!   BTW - loved your Unix piece!

 

They obviously took some liberties with some of the characters - especially Beebe.  But the movie was so well done and so entertaining it can be overlooked in the name of hollywood.

 

Listening to the folks that had to create and manage the cars, they had to do a lot of things on the spot including swapping cars, etc.  There is no evidence that Shelby drove a Porsche but that was the only cars they had available that day that were reliable enough to film.   So a lot of that may not have been planned but done out of necessity.

 

I think Bale deserves an Oscar nomination.  It was that good.   I wonder how many Americans know that's his normal accent?

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13 minutes ago, akirby said:

BTW - loved your Unix piece!

 

But the movie was so well done and so entertaining it can be overlooked in the name of hollywood.

 

Thanks! That was a fun piece to write. I should have a follow-up on C next year.

 

"Hollywood magic" also explains the way they crammed the Mustang launch together with the announcement of Ford's Le Mans program, as well as the overly dramatic moment where HFII stops an entire factory by having a guy hit one button--along with the silly speech he gives after the fact.

 

I'm kind of surprised they used that goofy slideshow scene for the Mustang, because, IMO, the actual Iacocca demonstration would've translated well to the big screen---he lined up the Chevrolet range opposite the Ford range, and pointed to the gap where the Chevy Corvair was and said, basically, 'we need to fill this gap.'

Edited by RichardJensen
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1 minute ago, RichardJensen said:

 

It's a movie which, if it's at all possible, has the opposite of spoilers.

 

The only bits that you don't already know are the bits they made up-----and those bits are almost uniformly silly or cringeworthy.

Not surprising. #hollywood

 

Pulling into Guam today after 4.5 month deployment so hitting the theatre with the squad. Lot's of Ford fans here!

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