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2019 Lincoln Navigator engine issue


LynnAnn

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9 hours ago, Flying68 said:

I would expect a small stand alone dealer to have better customer service because it directly affects their bonus payments from Lincoln. Hope things get straightened out.

 

How does that work?  I remember about 15 years ago they tried to do Blue Oval Certified to give dealers with better customer service a higher holdback but the dealers sued and won so it was never implemented.

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21 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

How does that work?  I remember about 15 years ago they tried to do Blue Oval Certified to give dealers with better customer service a higher holdback but the dealers sued and won so it was never implemented.

It was part of the Lincoln Commitment program. They eliminated holdback and raised invoice prices then added dealer incentives based on customer service targets and sales targets. Started in 2012 or so.

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6 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

It was part of the Lincoln Commitment program. They eliminated holdback and raised invoice prices then added dealer incentives based on customer service targets and sales targets. Started in 2012 or so.

 

Interesting.  I'm surprised the dealers didn't sue them.

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Hi

I unfortunately  do blame Lincoln. It goes back to their factory paint job. Their solution was to have a body shop repaint the front bumper to match the back. I am familiar with paint and know that paint will react differently on plastic versus aluminum. Lincoln also has the correct mixture (proprietary to Lincoln). I now have two bumpers that don’t match each other or match the vehicle. The particular color I chose, Ingot Silver, (other colors iced mocha (my sister looked at that color and looked at the bumpers and the white (not sure the correct name) will vary between the vehicle and bumpers. After two attempts I was told by Lincoln Customer Service to pick up my vehicle and they approved the paint job. My expectation was that they would have two new painted bumpers sent to the dealership. This was not the case. I know for a fact Lexus would have done anything to make the customer happy. I have actual proof of that. I didn’t go with the large Lexus SUV because I wanted a bigger vehicle. It is a shame that  for $91,000 they didn’t have any interest in exceeding my expectations or simply satisfying my request. My vehicle sat at the dealership for 45 days while they figured out a simple alignment that probably happened when they were transporting  the vehicle from the factory to the dealership. In that particular case it was the dealership. The dealership will have my vehicle for three more days to replace the mirror modules (which are on backorder, due to High demand) The Problem seems to be affecting several Navigators/Expeditions. I brought the vehicle in twice to have it fixed, with video, and they didn’t fix it because they couldn’t get the problem to repeat. If the mechanic would have done some research they would find that this is a problem.  They finally agreed to fix it with a clear expectation set, by my husband. The best part, my salesman saw me and actually asked how I like the vehicle. He shocked when I said no. He knew all the problems and still honestly thought we loved it. Now we have the problem with engine noise, another noted problem with other owners and the transmission not changing gears properly. When coming to a quick stop you will hear a horrible noise and feel a slight jerk. In the end we bought a $91,000 Problem and a fixture at the dealership garage. I really wish I could have given my sister positive feedback when she was going to buy one. 

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A better dealer would have done a much better job and there is no reason a body shop can't match paint even on plastic parts.   Not saying Lincoln has no blame here for causing the original problems but the majority seems to be the dealership.  Like you said a Lexus dealer would have probably corrected all the problems on the first try.

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  • 3 weeks later...

My Navigator has been at the dealer for a couple of weeks not due to the same noise and VCT Solenoid (Variable Cam Timing) replacement.  I was told the parts are on backorder until the end of September.   Something about Lincoln not releasing the parts.  I"m wondering if they're doing a re-design or something as others are experiencing the same issue.  When cold starting, it sounded like a rod knocking and I'm wondering how much metal was created in the oil from that.   We'll see how it turns out.  

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  • 2 months later...

Thank You. I appreciate you giving me more insight. I have taken it to the dealer twice and they tell me it is fine and normal. My Navigator is now pausing when you press the gas and then jerks you forward and it occasionally downshifts hard.... you can feel it slam. Again dealer said nothing is wrong. Had both mirror modules replaced and the mirror still occasionally glitches for almost a minute. Disappointed in the quality for $91,000. My bumpers have paint issues they tried to resolve with repainting at a local paint shop. Horrible and noticeable. Lincoln will not give me two brand new factory painted bumpers. 

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1 hour ago, LynnAnn said:

Thank You. I appreciate you giving me more insight. I have taken it to the dealer twice and they tell me it is fine and normal. My Navigator is now pausing when you press the gas and then jerks you forward and it occasionally downshifts hard.... you can feel it slam. Again dealer said nothing is wrong. Had both mirror modules replaced and the mirror still occasionally glitches for almost a minute. Disappointed in the quality for $91,000. My bumpers have paint issues they tried to resolve with repainting at a local paint shop. Horrible and noticeable. Lincoln will not give me two brand new factory painted bumpers. 

 

The start rattle is not normal nor fine. It is a sign of things to come (timing chain and sprockets). It is a well known issue in the Gen 2 Raptor community. 

 

Lincoln cannot provide you with factory painted bumpers. They come primed, but not painted. However, the dealer should be able to recommend a quality body shop that can match paint perfectly- especially for an almost new, non- faded paint like yours. 

 

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Yes. the loud rattles from a cold start is a very well known problem for this engine. camshaft and cam phasers are most likely the problems, you must have the dealer take another look since it is a serious mechanical issue. You also need to tell them about the hard shifting, which might also be the transmission. Google search and you'll see that some people already had tranny problems and replaced.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi 

Finally after 3 times of back and forth my dealership they are going to replace the cam phasers. Believe it or not.... they won’t get the parts for 30-40 days!!!!!!  Does anybody know if driving the vehicle will cause engine damage?  My dealership has told me no that it will not. At this point I don’t trust them. I now have an issue with our exhaust. The catalytic converter possibly needs to be replaced. After several times telling them that something doesn’t sound right under the car... we now have a gaping hole and black soot on our garage floor. These are not normal holes that should be there. I have probably 13 or more video recordings of the sound. Last night my Navigator was a little “ chuggy...” think of a something trying to go but stuttering along”. The mirror issue still is not fixed. Any information would be great. I have a 91,000 vehicle with a folder filled with paperwork and 13 or more videos of issues. Thank You 

 

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9 hours ago, LynnAnn said:

Hi 

Finally after 3 times of back and forth my dealership they are going to replace the cam phasers. Believe it or not.... they won’t get the parts for 30-40 days!!!!!!  Does anybody know if driving the vehicle will cause engine damage?  My dealership has told me no that it will not. At this point I don’t trust them. I now have an issue with our exhaust. The catalytic converter possibly needs to be replaced. After several times telling them that something doesn’t sound right under the car... we now have a gaping hole and black soot on our garage floor. These are not normal holes that should be there. I have probably 13 or more video recordings of the sound. Last night my Navigator was a little “ chuggy...” think of a something trying to go but stuttering along”. The mirror issue still is not fixed. Any information would be great. I have a 91,000 vehicle with a folder filled with paperwork and 13 or more videos of issues. Thank You 

 

Apparently if you hold the accelerator to the floor and then press the start button the engine will turn over but not actually start, this will force oil through the engine and should keep the cam phasers from making that noise on the cold start.  I’ve read this on a different forum from a user with the same engine as our Navigators... I have not done this procedure myself.  As for the black spot on the garage.... yeah, that is not supposed to happen.  
 

sorry for all your troubles, I can’t imagine how frustrating these issues must be.  Thankfully they aren’t wide spread and I’ve dodged them.

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  • 4 weeks later...

As a follow up.  My truck was fixed for this issue going on a couple months now.  I'm listening to my truck every day now and I think I"m hearing the noise again.   I'm wondering if they put the same defective part back in.  We'll see eventually I guess.

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On 12/26/2019 at 1:35 PM, gavzx7 said:

As a follow up.  My truck was fixed for this issue going on a couple months now.  I'm listening to my truck every day now and I think I"m hearing the noise again.   I'm wondering if they put the same defective part back in.  We'll see eventually I guess.

From what I’ve read they do not have updated parts for this.  Yours were replaced with brand new cam phasers but they are the exact same part that could fail and cause that noise. The odds of getting this twice are probably through the roof... not that this is any consolation.

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