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Porosity in Ford Blocks


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On 8/8/2019 at 1:17 PM, YT90SC said:

Lastly, don't get your panties in a wad if you go through a very small amount of coolant between oil changes. Some loss of volume of orange coolant due to evaporation during normal use is considered normal. 

Uh? Exactly what evaporation is going on? I drove my 2013 Escape 2.0 for 122,000 miles before trading up and I never once had to add coolant. 

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20 hours ago, Escapism said:

 2013 Escape 2.0

The 1.5 and 1.6 will "go through" coolant even if it isn't leaking from the water pump, headgasket or external leak. We were told several times it was evaporation in those engines due to cooling system design. They run areas in the cooling circuit with PCM controlled valving to get over the thermostat operating temp, to promote thermal efficiency. I believe it is the head they allow to run hot, IIRC. 

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And here is a quote from a very popular Escape forum. 

 

Morning all, just figured i would add my story. 2017 SE 1.5 with 9000 miles on it. Started running rough than came a p0302 code. misfire code. got so bad that i had to have it towed to dealer after i noticed no antifreeze in overflow tank. Fist look they tell me it needed a head, call back again and they now have to put a new short block in. 9 weeks later i get it back and the dealer tells me there are like 12 cars like my problem there now. i also have a 2014 escape with same motor 50,000 miles and not happy with that one at all. Good thing i took out the extended warranty.”

 

There is a serious problem with coolant leaking into the cylinders. This quote above is just one of many who have posted  about the problem and having the blocks replaced. Somebody at Ford knows what’s going on. 

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21 hours ago, Escapism said:

....There is a serious problem with coolant leaking into the cylinders. This quote above is just one of many who have posted  about the problem and having the blocks replaced. Somebody at Ford knows what’s going on. 

 

So, lets see...Ford acknowledges a problem and is fixing but somehow, you want to spin a conspiracy out of it....

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On 8/25/2019 at 11:20 AM, twintornados said:

 

So, lets see...Ford acknowledges a problem and is fixing but somehow, you want to spin a conspiracy out of it....

 

A TSB is an acknowledgement, but this is happening to people with 20,000 miles, 30,000 miles, 40,0000 and so on. So if your past your warranty Ford doesn’t pay. At least with the Focus RS Ford took care of the owners. 

 

Your attitude is is exactly why the Escape/Kuga sub forum gets so little traffic. 

 

 

Edited by Escapism
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  • 3 weeks later...

One of my coworkers has a late model Fusion with the 2.0 EB. Has been problem free for 75K. The dealer he bought it from had a lifetime powertrain warranty.

Two weeks ago, his wife calls him and says a warning light for coolant low or temp high (I don't recall) and he had to add coolant. Was also getting a random cylinder misfire.

Took it to dealer. Cracked block is what they told him and they replaced it last week with a used engine with 35K miles.

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On 9/20/2019 at 1:08 PM, dave91gt said:

One of my coworkers has a late model Fusion with the 2.0 EB. Has been problem free for 75K. The dealer he bought it from had a lifetime powertrain warranty.

Two weeks ago, his wife calls him and says a warning light for coolant low or temp high (I don't recall) and he had to add coolant. Was also getting a random cylinder misfire.

Took it to dealer. Cracked block is what they told him and they replaced it last week with a used engine with 35K miles.

Yep, its a real thing. Folks on here want to flame me, but on the Escape froum I follow its about one a week thats reporting the low coolant and ending up with an engine replacement. The mileage on these reports are all over the place, from under 15,000 to around 75,000.

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On 8/8/2019 at 1:17 PM, YT90SC said:

Any small leaks, get repaired immediately, as low coolant can exacerbate the failure of the headgasket. Lastly, don't get your panties in a wad if you go through a very small amount of coolant between oil changes. Some loss of volume of orange coolant due to evaporation during normal use is considered normal. 

 

How much is very small amount? I lost about 1/2 of a gallon in my SHO-which is known for their infamous water pump failures. 

 

But also my car is 6.5 years old, so that is a tiny amount over a long period of time and it seems to be holding what I replaced with distilled water. 

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45 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

How much is very small amount? I lost about 1/2 of a gallon in my SHO-which is known for their infamous water pump failures. 

 

But also my car is 6.5 years old, so that is a tiny amount over a long period of time and it seems to be holding what I replaced with distilled water. 

 

First, to be clear, they are shipped from the factory at "minimum" on the bottle. 1/2 gallon in 6.5 years is well within what most would consider normal. There are two water pump weep holes on that engine. One is behind the alternator. It can be seen from the bottom of the car fairly easily. Crusty crud around it or streaks down from it are a good indicator of a leak. If it gets clogged, the other is in the valley of the engine. So coolant that shows up there is from the pump. Beyond that, watch your oil for signs of discoloration due to water intrusion. It will look milky on the stick, or because coolant is heavier than oil, it may spurt out a little when you drop the oil drain plug. Coolant in the oil on these IS NOT a death sentence. As long as it runs and doesn't knock, we have had VERY good luck dropping the pan and cleaning it out then changing the oil, getting it ***HOT*** then immediately changing it again, and repeating oil changes at least once, or until it comes out not milky.   

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  • 3 months later...
On 8/7/2019 at 10:22 AM, YT90SC said:

Porosity is NOT the issue. Core shift due to the stress relief cuts between the cylinders are. The cuts make it so the fire ring cannot seal properly if there is even a little shift. The new short blocks have cross drilled reliefs rather than cut. Not sure when production moved to these.  

As of now, the 1.5 is being repaired with short blocks unless the plugs bind in the holes from the coolant. They don't even want tear down on those now. The 2.0 and 1.6 are long block for intrusion only.  FYI: 1.6 has always been 6006 since launch.

 

Don't think the slots are for stress relief, they are for coolant flow.  Scary Ford incorporated this novel 'feature' in the new 7.3L gas block's design, though being iron I suspect there will not be any issues.  

 

 

Edited by 7Mary3
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19 hours ago, Escapism said:

My point is Field Service Action 19B37 

 

Go ahead, keep denying there is an issue. More and more Escapes are popping up with coolant loss 

 

On 9/26/2019 at 10:12 AM, Escapism said:

Yep, its a real thing. Folks on here want to flame me, but on the Escape froum I follow its about one a week thats reporting the low coolant and ending up with an engine replacement. The mileage on these reports are all over the place, from under 15,000 to around 75,000.

 

Who is denying there was is and issue with the headgasket sealing on 1.5 and 2.0s? The issue is well known, and has been rehashed MANY times on here. Ford has addressed it with FSA 19B37 to hopefully catch them if they show signs of failure and do what they can to prevent the ones that haven't yet. There are TSB's and SSM's for both engines that lay out a specific repair procedure for both the 1.5 and 2.0. 

 

Established repair procedures. Established preventative measures. What is it you want here? 

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From an Escape owner:


“I received a letter about the PCM software upgrade on Jan 18th 2020 to help fix the coolant leaking into some cylinders. My 2017 Escape is on it's second engine due to this leakage after ~4200 miles. The mileage is now just under 5000 miles. It's our third car and only does ~2000 miles per year. I called the dealer and he told me to bring it in on my next oil change for the software upgrade, if it even needs it, because the new engine was installed Dec 16 2019. Hopefully I got the latest software with the new engine. Anybody know if the PCM upgrade changes the power curve or the torque curve? Are we still getting the HP and Torque we were promised in the specifications when we purchased the cars? I had coolant leaking into cylinders 2 and 4. Apparently this is a known fault with the engine cylinder liners cracking between cylinders and allowing coolant to weep into the cylinders. My local dealer has replace around 100 of these engines. The liners had a design fault which allowed cracks to develop due to expansion and contraction of the steel liner relative to the aluminum block. The new engine has a revised liner design that is supposed to prevent cracks occurring. I have seen, in person, the two designs of liner and hopefully the new design is better. The new design is stronger but may be less compliant to the demands of expansion and contraction of the liner relative to the block. Time will tell.
2017 Ford Escape 1.5l”

 

BTW, I totally stand corrected as far as porosity in the blocks. 

Edited by Escapism
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As an owner of  2017 Fusion 2.0, I am a little troubled. I originally thought this was limited to the 1.5, however now I see a TSB for the 2.0. I am at 47k right now. I have 13 thousand miles left on my powertrain warranty so I want to assess my options before that runs out. Now, I will admit I rarely check my coolant level. When getting my oil changed at the dealer and small shop they "should" check and they've never brought it up. I don't see any white smoke out the back and engine seems to be running fine.

 

Is there a test that can determine if I have the makings of a problem? If this does happen out of warranty, roughly how much would it cost to fix? Can I get additional powertrain warranty at this point? 

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4 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

As an owner of  2017 Fusion 2.0, I am a little troubled. I originally thought this was limited to the 1.5, however now I see a TSB for the 2.0. I am at 47k right now. I have 13 thousand miles left on my powertrain warranty so I want to assess my options before that runs out. Now, I will admit I rarely check my coolant level. When getting my oil changed at the dealer and small shop they "should" check and they've never brought it up. I don't see any white smoke out the back and engine seems to be running fine.

 

Is there a test that can determine if I have the makings of a problem? If this does happen out of warranty, roughly how much would it cost to fix? Can I get additional powertrain warranty at this point? 

I have a 2013 2.0L EB in my wife's Fusion. We've got 121K miles. When I did the 100K service, the coolant was down about 4-6 oz from the factory fill line. I'd say at 47k, you're out of the danger zone.

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21 hours ago, 351cid said:

I have a 2013 2.0L EB in my wife's Fusion. We've got 121K miles. When I did the 100K service, the coolant was down about 4-6 oz from the factory fill line. I'd say at 47k, you're out of the danger zone.

 

Not exactly. There are some differences between the two 2.0's. I am not exactly sure (other than Turbo) but the TSB is for 17+.

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10 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

Not exactly. There are some differences between the two 2.0's. I am not exactly sure (other than Turbo) but the TSB is for 17+.

Did not know that. 

 

How is it Ford's "improved designs" are taking near bullit proof componets & making them crap?

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12 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

I'm not a 100% sure on this but if I remember, the original 2.0 ecoboost was a Mazda engine. I don't think mine is.

 

Not a Mazda engine but the 2.0L block was derived from the Mazda L engine block.   The rest is all Ford though - heads, cams, fuel, cooling, etc.

 

They redesigned it in 2016 going to a twin scroll turbo and there have been multiple versions of the block design for different applications.

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22 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Not a Mazda engine but the 2.0L block was derived from the Mazda L engine block.   The rest is all Ford though - heads, cams, fuel, cooling, etc.

 

They redesigned it in 2016 going to a twin scroll turbo and there have been multiple versions of the block design for different applications.

 

Thanks for the clarification.  I just need to figure out my next course of action regarding this TSB before my warranty runs out.

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Hi! I have a 2014 Ford Escape with the 1.6L Ecoboost that has 67,400 miles on it that has just had the issue a few of you are describing. I went to cold start it the other morning (when it was about 25 degrees F outside) and got the overheated engine message. I shut the car off, checked fluid levels and saw the coolant was about a quarter inch below the minimum line. Oil and everything else looked fine. Tried to start it again and it was in limp mode. Towed it to the local Ford dealership that handled my recall for the coolant issue and they said it needs a new engine to the tune of $7000. The car is worth about $9000 so uh, yeah I don’t think so. 
 

They could not explain to me what happened or their justification for the issue. I called the dealership I bought it from and they said all warranties are out for me but that it could be a porous engine block. They’re currently looking at it to see what can be done. 
 

My concern is that this is a big problem and Ford is not acknowledging it or doing anything to help those outside of warranty. I baby my cars (was raised by an auto mechanic/stock car driver) so I know how to treat a car and how to recognize incoming issues. I purposely buy newer cars to avoid these sorts of issues but buying a Ford was my mistake. This is all after I spent $600 to fix a broken CV joint in Nov. 2019, which is a part that shouldn’t go out until well after 100k plus miles. I’m really disappointed but glad to hear this isn’t a fluke. I do wish Ford would do something to fix this and I’m going to fight the issue all the way up the chain until I get a resolution that is reasonable. I will update when they confirm the true issue here but I’m guessing it’s the porosity issue mentioned above. 

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