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Porosity in Ford Blocks


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On 1/21/2020 at 2:42 PM, jcartwright99 said:

 

Thanks for the clarification.  I just need to figure out my next course of action regarding this TSB before my warranty runs out.

I think the biggest difference is the 2017+ is an open deck block whereas the 2013 - 2016 is closed deck.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/7/2019 at 1:22 PM, YT90SC said:

Porosity is NOT the issue. Core shift due to the stress relief cuts between the cylinders are. The cuts make it so the fire ring cannot seal properly if there is even a little shift. The new short blocks have cross drilled reliefs rather than cut. Not sure when production moved to these.  

As of now, the 1.5 is being repaired with short blocks unless the plugs bind in the holes from the coolant. They don't even want tear down on those now. The 2.0 and 1.6 are long block for intrusion only.  FYI: 1.6 has always been 6006 since launch.

 

On 8/7/2019 at 1:22 PM, YT90SC said:

 The new short blocks have cross drilled reliefs rather than cut. Not sure when production moved to these.  

 

Looks like I'm late to the discussion, so I'm not sure if anyone is still monitoring this thread... This is excellent information, just what I needed. Thank you @YT90SCfor posting it.

 

My low mileage 2017 Fusion (1.5L engine) is currently in the shop to replace the engine due to the 'coolant intrusion' issue. The service advisor states that a 2017 short block, DS7Z*6009*G will be the replacement engine. I'm not completely clear whether all short block 1.5L engines would have the the cross drilled reliefs? (I wasn't clear whether 'when production moved to those' meant new car production, or new engine production - sorry if I'm being dense.)

 

Can anyone confirm (or tell me how I can confirm) whether a 2017 1.5L engine with the part number above should have the improved (cross drilled) reliefs?

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57 minutes ago, FL Guy said:

Can anyone confirm (or tell me how I can confirm) whether a 2017 1.5L engine with the part number above should have the improved (cross drilled) reliefs?

 

It was about 3 weeks into the process, when I stopped by my dealer, and the new short block was sitting there, still in it's crate. Maybe stay in touch with your dealer, and when the replacement arrives, go take a look and confirm for yourself?

 

HRG

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7 hours ago, FL Guy said:

 

 

Looks like I'm late to the discussion, so I'm not sure if anyone is still monitoring this thread... This is excellent information, just what I needed. Thank you @YT90SCfor posting it.

 

My low mileage 2017 Fusion (1.5L engine) is currently in the shop to replace the engine due to the 'coolant intrusion' issue. The service advisor states that a 2017 short block, DS7Z*6009*G will be the replacement engine. I'm not completely clear whether all short block 1.5L engines would have the the cross drilled reliefs? (I wasn't clear whether 'when production moved to those' meant new car production, or new engine production - sorry if I'm being dense.)

 

Can anyone confirm (or tell me how I can confirm) whether a 2017 1.5L engine with the part number above should have the improved (cross drilled) reliefs?

 

ALL new short blocks are of the new design. That is the latest part number. If it had an earlier revision I'd be concerned, but that is the latest available.    

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In the course of visiting the dealership, I've started considering the possibility of an upgrade. Of course, what I wouldn't want is to discover that the new vehicle has the same issue, and in the worst case, it is potentially only discovered after the warranty expires...

 

Is there any way to determine for any particular vehicle whether it was built with the newer engine type with the modified relief design, or the older style engine? Perhaps based on the VIN# of the vehicle in question?

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On 2/18/2020 at 7:20 AM, FL Guy said:

Is there any way to determine for any particular vehicle whether it was built with the newer engine type with the modified relief design, or the older style engine? Perhaps based on the VIN# of the vehicle in question?

 

Let me try asking the question a different way... Is it possible to determine whether a particular model year of vehicle, or a particular VIN was build with a short block engine (which I understand should have the updated relief design)?

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21 minutes ago, FL Guy said:

 

Let me try asking the question a different way... Is it possible to determine whether a particular model year of vehicle, or a particular VIN was build with a short block engine (which I understand should have the updated relief design)?

 

Look at the build date.

 

HRG

 

1.5 EB build date.JPG

Edited by HotRunrGuy
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5 hours ago, FL Guy said:

 

Ah, it looks like there is a 'VIN Decoder' on the NHTSA site that looks like it might do the trick: https://vpic.nhtsa.dot.gov/decoder/ (I haven't tested it yet)

I'm pretty sure the date of manufacture isn't encoded in the VIN, but the year and month are printed on the manufacturer's sticker on the trailing edge of the driver's door. (It's the one with the VIN, GVWR/GAWR, and compliance statement.)

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8 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

I'm pretty sure the date of manufacture isn't encoded in the VIN, but the year and month are printed on the manufacturer's sticker on the trailing edge of the driver's door. (It's the one with the VIN, GVWR/GAWR, and compliance statement.)

 

You're right, there is a date there on my vehicle. Good info - thanks!

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  • 3 months later...
Well, here we go. Mine has been sipping some coolant lose. Have had to add a very small amount of coolant over the last month or two. Couple of rough starts in the last month. Plugged in Forscan and I do have a P0316 DTC. Misfire on the first 1000 revs. Thank goodness I have 100,000 PowerTrain. I currently have 32,000 miles.

Stopped by the Ford dealer. They said it’s a good thing I have the 2.0 cause the 1.5 is on backorder. Like that gives me a warm and fuzzy.
 
 
Traded in my 2013 2.0 Titanium for:
2017 Lightning Blue Titanium | 2.0. | AWD | Pano Roof | Tow Package
Sport Appearance Package | Roof Racks
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Well, whatever it is mine has bitten the bulletproof. 
 

It’s been confirmed. 33000 miles with coolant intrusion. I’m getting a long block. 
 

And I stand completely corrected. It’s not porosity, it’s just a turd product.  Both the 1.5 and 2.0 open deck design. 


Unbelievable.

Edited by Escapism
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On 6/26/2020 at 7:19 PM, Escapism said:

Well, whatever it is mine has bitten the bulletproof. 
 

It’s been confirmed. 33000 miles with coolant intrusion. I’m getting a long block. 
 

And I stand completely corrected. It’s not porosity, it’s just a turd product.  Both the 1.5 and 2.0 open deck design. 


Unbelievable.

 

Open deck design has nothing to do with it. Updated coolant passages in your replacement long block will give you years of trouble-free service. The original design was not well thought through hence the issue...I would understand your disbelief if Ford was not correcting the issue, but they are.

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4 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Open deck design has nothing to do with it. Updated coolant passages in your replacement long block will give you years of trouble-free service. The original design was not well thought through hence the issue...I would understand your disbelief if Ford was not correcting the issue, but they are.

That is great news. I wanna keep her for a long time. 
 

And the other thing I’ve got going for me is that the mechanic has done 16 engine replacements. 

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I'm at 53k right now on my Fusion 2.0. No problems so far but may try to have the pressure test done on my engine before the powertrain warranty runs out. I am most likely going to purchase for an extend powertrain warranty through 120k. So far prices I've seen have been about a grand, which still far cheaper than a new engine or trans. I am probably overreacting but it gives me piece of mind.

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  • 1 month later...

2017 2.0L Escape long block replacement at 30,000 miles in June 2019.  Second long block replacement at 59,000 miles in August 2020.  How in the world does Ford allow this to happen twice?  Haven't they "culled the herd" of bad attic stock or are they just replacing bad with bad.  Fortunately Ford is picking up the cost for the second replacement but there's no guarantee they will be so generous the next time, if and when that occurs.  Service department says the repair is only warrantied for 12 months or 12,000 miles.  NOTE: I also have a 2013 2.0L Escape and that engine has performed beyond expectations.  What ever happened to "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

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37 minutes ago, mgd1957 said:

2017 2.0L Escape long block replacement at 30,000 miles in June 2019.  Second long block replacement at 59,000 miles in August 2020.  How in the world does Ford allow this to happen twice?  Haven't they "culled the herd" of bad attic stock or are they just replacing bad with bad.  Fortunately Ford is picking up the cost for the second replacement but there's no guarantee they will be so generous the next time, if and when that occurs.  Service department says the repair is only warrantied for 12 months or 12,000 miles.  NOTE: I also have a 2013 2.0L Escape and that engine has performed beyond expectations.  What ever happened to "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

 

I would ask to see the June 2019 block, so you could determine if it was the old "slotted" version, or the current "drilled" one.  If it was a drilled one, then you have reason to be worried.  Do you have the parts list from June 2019, they should be able to tell by the part number.

 

HRG

Edited by HotRunrGuy
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  • 7 months later...

i have also been following the forums and done a bit of research myself.  My 2017 Ford Escape starting throwing code PO301 after about 36000 miles (misfire cylinder 1)(PO302, 303, 304  all the same just different cylinders).  I swapped my coil packs to rule out a coil pack problem and was planning on doing a tune and replace the spark plugs since I was approaching 40000 miles.  I have a Titanium with remote start so on rare occasions I started it manually after sitting overnight and it would start up rough.  I only noticed this a couple of times and it did not throw a code when this happened.  Prior to being able to set aside the time for the spark plug swap I noticed I had no heat.  I checked my coolant level and there was no coolant in the reservoir.  I took it in to my dealer that day.  The tell all sign is if you are losing coolant.

 

I wish I could be more reassuring but there are a number of class action lawsuits of people that had this failure after their powertrain warranty expired(5YR/60000).  It appears Ford will not pay for anything once the warranty expires.  If it happens inside of your powertrain warranty Ford will have the dealership do a pressure test on your coolant system and check for antifreeze on the cylinder heads.  If after the test they find the antifreeze in the cylinder,  Ford will replace your engine with a new Long Block.  This is were things get interesting.  The whole problem is cause by a channel that is engineered in the top of the block (every engine built up to sometime in 2019 has this channel).  There are stories on people getting there engines replaced and then returning for a second engine with the same failure because the replacement engine had the same culprit channel.  It does appear that sometime in 2019 Ford started taking the channel out of the blocks (the channel was suppose to help with cooling but antifreeze would pool in the channel and sit against the head gasket and deteriorate it till the antifreeze found it's way through into the cylinder(s)). 

 

Well, Ford is replacing my Long Block but It may take a few weeks because they are short a "cylinder head sensor" that is back ordered.  The part is suppose to be expedited because of my Warranty approval but so far I am stuck waiting.  This I can understand because of Covid...what irks me is Ford will only approve coverage of my rental for 10days which will not even get me to the back ordered date of my missing part.  It's possible that they may find the part sooner and the work can start (2-3 days) on the swapping of my engine.  It is also possible, as my 10th day approaches and the part still hasn't arrived Ford will agree to extend my rental coverage.  I talked to Ford myself today and no go on extending my rental coverage.  Most importantly I confirmed that my long block will not have the channel...it appears the cut off date for the engines with channels was sometime in 2019.

 

So, I am hopeful I will have years of no problems with the NO CHANNEL engine (I still might run into problems with the high pressure fuel pump and the myriad of other issues).  My advice is check your coolant levels...if they drop in your reservoir take it in IMMEDIATELY before your Powertrain Warranty expires.  Have them check your oil for antifreeze and do the pressure test on your cooling system.  If your outside of warranty your only option is to join one of the many class action lawsuits and help the lawyers get rich.  From what I can tell the Long Block replacement is around $9000 and you will never see the money out of the class actions.  If you don't have coolant loss when approaching 60,000 miles  I would trade the SUV in on another Escape with the base 2.5L or any other SUV that has a non turbo base engine.  I personally would stay away from the super engineered engines (Direct Injections, VCT, Ti VCT etc...).  Ford is trying to meet upcoming fuel economy requirements in the US and meet current requirements to sell their vehicles in Europe.  They are doing this while trying to provide you some zip as well, problem is I am not sure if they can and they definitely are failing at the moment.  I personally believe that if I am lucky my next vehicle will have to be an electric.  It does seem the direction things are heading.  I miss cast iron blocks, block fuel pumps, Distributors etc...I don't miss Carburetors...GOOD LUCK!!! 

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Great post and info, thank you. One small comment: you mentioned your next vehicle, you could also consider a non turbo hybrid, which keeps you away from the issues you've cited here, but also dramatically improves fuel economy and helps you avoid the issues of EV ownership (if those apply to you and your charging situation). I've driven hybrids or plug in hybrids for most of the teens until now, and I really like the compromise.

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15 hours ago, pdworth2 said:

i have also been following the forums and done a bit of research myself.  My 2017 Ford Escape starting throwing code PO301 after about 36000 miles (misfire cylinder 1)(PO302, 303, 304  all the same just different cylinders).  I swapped my coil packs to rule out a coil pack problem and was planning on doing a tune and replace the spark plugs since I was approaching 40000 miles.  I have a Titanium with remote start so on rare occasions I started it manually after sitting overnight and it would start up rough.  I only noticed this a couple of times and it did not throw a code when this happened.  Prior to being able to set aside the time for the spark plug swap I noticed I had no heat.  I checked my coolant level and there was no coolant in the reservoir.  I took it in to my dealer that day.  The tell all sign is if you are losing coolant.

 

I wish I could be more reassuring but there are a number of class action lawsuits of people that had this failure after their powertrain warranty expired(5YR/60000).  It appears Ford will not pay for anything once the warranty expires.  If it happens inside of your powertrain warranty Ford will have the dealership do a pressure test on your coolant system and check for antifreeze on the cylinder heads.  If after the test they find the antifreeze in the cylinder,  Ford will replace your engine with a new Long Block.  This is were things get interesting.  The whole problem is cause by a channel that is engineered in the top of the block (every engine built up to sometime in 2019 has this channel).  There are stories on people getting there engines replaced and then returning for a second engine with the same failure because the replacement engine had the same culprit channel.  It does appear that sometime in 2019 Ford started taking the channel out of the blocks (the channel was suppose to help with cooling but antifreeze would pool in the channel and sit against the head gasket and deteriorate it till the antifreeze found it's way through into the cylinder(s)). 

 

Well, Ford is replacing my Long Block but It may take a few weeks because they are short a "cylinder head sensor" that is back ordered.  The part is suppose to be expedited because of my Warranty approval but so far I am stuck waiting.  This I can understand because of Covid...what irks me is Ford will only approve coverage of my rental for 10days which will not even get me to the back ordered date of my missing part.  It's possible that they may find the part sooner and the work can start (2-3 days) on the swapping of my engine.  It is also possible, as my 10th day approaches and the part still hasn't arrived Ford will agree to extend my rental coverage.  I talked to Ford myself today and no go on extending my rental coverage.  Most importantly I confirmed that my long block will not have the channel...it appears the cut off date for the engines with channels was sometime in 2019.

 

So, I am hopeful I will have years of no problems with the NO CHANNEL engine (I still might run into problems with the high pressure fuel pump and the myriad of other issues).  My advice is check your coolant levels...if they drop in your reservoir take it in IMMEDIATELY before your Powertrain Warranty expires.  Have them check your oil for antifreeze and do the pressure test on your cooling system.  If your outside of warranty your only option is to join one of the many class action lawsuits and help the lawyers get rich.  From what I can tell the Long Block replacement is around $9000 and you will never see the money out of the class actions.  If you don't have coolant loss when approaching 60,000 miles  I would trade the SUV in on another Escape with the base 2.5L or any other SUV that has a non turbo base engine.  I personally would stay away from the super engineered engines (Direct Injections, VCT, Ti VCT etc...).  Ford is trying to meet upcoming fuel economy requirements in the US and meet current requirements to sell their vehicles in Europe.  They are doing this while trying to provide you some zip as well, problem is I am not sure if they can and they definitely are failing at the moment.  I personally believe that if I am lucky my next vehicle will have to be an electric.  It does seem the direction things are heading.  I miss cast iron blocks, block fuel pumps, Distributors etc...I don't miss Carburetors...GOOD LUCK!!! 


That’s a great summary of the issue. I knew roughly what it was before but I didn’t realize that the channel provided a place for the coolant to eat through the head gasket. 
 

Sorry you had to go through this. I’m in the same boat sort of. My Fusion has 70k and no issues as of right now. I had been considering an extended warranty because I really like my car and don’t want to get rid of it until 2023 (maybe for Bronco?). 

I think your explanation has moved me to get the extra warranty now. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, I ended up biting the bullet and got an extended warranty for an additional 3/36. It was kinda a pain since my existing warranty had ran out and I had to have it inspected (which I had to pay for). I found out that most extended warranties that you could get online from Ford Dealers would not cover my car due to mileage.  I didn't really do much scouring for the best price so I may or may not have overpaid a bit. I have my "insurance" now so I feel a little better.

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On 6/28/2020 at 10:11 AM, twintornados said:

I would understand your disbelief if Ford was not correcting the issue, but they are.

That statement is pure crap. Ford is NOT covering many people out there that have coolant intrusion. They are just barely past the warranty and Ford is telling them to go pound sand. That is why their is a class action lawsuit. Get real man.

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