Bellanca Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 As I said in the other thread John Davis said that wasn’t the goal of the GT; no one is going to pay $70k, hell no one is going to pay $50K to save money on fuel. This is basically an alternative to a sc/turbo V8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msm859 Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 4 hours ago, akirby said: Well he has to build Aviators for all buyers not just you. And most are not in California. I’ll take his professional judgement about what the market wants over your individual preferences, Well at the risk of seeing another dead horse getting beat I don't believe it is simply my personal preference. The LARGEST auto market in the world gives favorable treatment to a PHEV that has at least a 50 km electric range - That should have been a bench mark. The US gives tax credits up to $7500 based on battery size - That should have been a bench mark. (of course those two are related). Finally, if "performance" was the goal. Take what they built and run it against the same vehicle Except with a 365 hp 3.0 and a 150 hp electric motor/ larger battery - same @ total hp and see which one will be faster. - I suggest it would be the one with the higher hp/torque on the electric side. Now having said all that I confess I don't know what engineering obstacles, if any, might exist. I do know auto manufacturers make compromises based on multiple reasons. I have in fact been to the Ford reading room and seen exact costs of building a car and costs of changes between different years. The have it down to the penny. We will soon see how this combination works in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangchief Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 They will get this to the LARGEST auto market in the world with 50KM range, the US version is tuned for performance, because performance sells. The big market you speak of has a much lower speed limit (50 on the National Highways, and a whopping 60 on the freeway), and very few roads where you can open it up (been there) Prius speed is much more the norm, If they tuned the Aviator in the US for distance over twist, they would sell far less. I love performance and economy, but given the option, I'll take performance over economy. I have been to a few advanced driving schools. It is far easier to accelerate out of trouble than brake into a mess. I'll bet if you take this fully charged on a nice flat road and set cruise at 50 with no electronics, it would get 31 miles. I'll try it when mine arrives. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolScoop Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Maybe the China model will flip the battery/fuel capacities. They'll shrink the fuel tank to 1 gallon to make room for a second battery... that'll give an 18 mile range on gas only and at least 36 miles on the two batteries totaling 27.2 kwh... problem solved!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 2 hours ago, msm859 said: Well at the risk of seeing another dead horse getting beat I don't believe it is simply my personal preference. The LARGEST auto market in the world gives favorable treatment to a PHEV that has at least a 50 km electric range - That should have been a bench mark. The US gives tax credits up to $7500 based on battery size - That should have been a bench mark. (of course those two are related). Finally, if "performance" was the goal. Take what they built and run it against the same vehicle Except with a 365 hp 3.0 and a 150 hp electric motor/ larger battery - same @ total hp and see which one will be faster. - I suggest it would be the one with the higher hp/torque on the electric side. Now having said all that I confess I don't know what engineering obstacles, if any, might exist. I do know auto manufacturers make compromises based on multiple reasons. I have in fact been to the Ford reading room and seen exact costs of building a car and costs of changes between different years. The have it down to the penny. We will soon see how this combination works in the real world. It was already explained by someone who obviously has inside info why the battery and motor are not larger. Whining about it won’t change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfischetti Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 @automatters has been teasing their big review of the Aviator when the embargo is lifted on 8/20. They teased 52 different photos and this one caught my eye. It shows the battery fully charged and the fuel gauge says 25 miles. You can see all the photos here.... https://local12.com/news/auto-matters/photos-2020-lincoln-aviator 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, jfischetti said: @automatters has been teasing their big review of the Aviator when the embargo is lifted on 8/20. They teased 52 different photos and this one caught my eye. It shows the battery fully charged and the fuel gauge says 25 miles. You can see all the photos here.... https://local12.com/news/auto-matters/photos-2020-lincoln-aviator Interesting! Good find! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheeling Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 That would be great, if true. I'm sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolScoop Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Wow... Lincoln must be following this thread cause they increased the range after seeing all the disappointment with 18 mpg!!! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangchief Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 4 hours ago, CoolScoop said: Wow... Lincoln must be following this thread cause they increased the range after seeing all the disappointment with 18 mpg!!! Or the person who wrote the 18Mi was a few double A's short of a full charge when he wrote the piece. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLexusAviator Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Hmmm....295 mi on almost full tank. That comes to about 16 to 17 mpg overall? Or am I reading too much into this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 7 hours ago, AlexLexusAviator said: Hmmm....295 mi on almost full tank. That comes to about 16 to 17 mpg overall? Or am I reading too much into this? Well the tank is about 7/8 full which would be 15.75 gallons on an 18 gallon tank for the GT. 295 mi would translate to 18.73 mpg. The regular Aviator AWD gets 17 city / 24 hwy / 20 combined so 18.73 for a press vehicle that really doesn't see much sustained highway driving and is probably driven hard in many short bursts, I would say it is probably pretty decent. Of course your results may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLexusAviator Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Edmunds lists regular Aviator tank's size as 20.2 gallons. Do you think hybrid will get smaller tank. I guess my concern was that the screenshot was of a hybrid version, so I expected a better MPG. But I think it's just my wishful thinking :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutomotiveAddicts Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Considering those are press vehicles they were driven hard previously in small spurts, which would yield a lower overall range. If you drive the GT on the highway then refueled it the range will be higher as the computer will naturally base range off of recent MPG and driving style, just like any other MPG/DTE computer. Something to keep in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLexusAviator Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Agreed! It's just I tend not to trust official EPA estimates. I recently read an article in Car and Driver called "Mallrats" ( I think only printed edition has it) where they compare Cayenne, X5, Q7 and GLE 450. One of the things they mentioned was "C/D observed MPG", which was about 13 mpgs for all four cars. That's nothing even close to their EPA numbers. Again, we don't know how C/D got their numbers and under what conditions, but still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 As I posted above, the GT only has an 18 gallon tank. That information is published by Lincoln and available on the Lincoln website right now. The fuel gauge was 7/8 full, so they had approximately 15.75 gallons in the tank. The range indicator had 2 numbers there, one for GAS and one for BATTERY power. I would venture to say that the gas range number is calculated like all Ford products in that it uses a calculation based on the previous several cycles. Considering this is a press pool vehicle, it is likely not being driven for extended periods of time on the highway and probably has considerable idle time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Flying68 said: As I posted above, the GT only has an 18 gallon tank. That information is published by Lincoln and available on the Lincoln website right now. The fuel gauge was 7/8 full, so they had approximately 15.75 gallons in the tank. The range indicator had 2 numbers there, one for GAS and one for BATTERY power. I would venture to say that the gas range number is calculated like all Ford products in that it uses a calculation based on the previous several cycles. Considering this is a press pool vehicle, it is likely not being driven for extended periods of time on the highway and probably has considerable idle time. Ford's DTE calculation also excludes 1-2 gallons of fuel in the tank as a reserve, so it would only be counting on about 14 gallons (or less) left. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLexusAviator Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 I see it now in the specs, 18 G tank for hybrid. Thanks for pointing that out. Now it does not sound too bad when you do the math Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangchief Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, AlexLexusAviator said: Edmunds lists regular Aviator tank's size as 20.2 gallons. Do you think hybrid will get smaller tank. I guess my concern was that the screenshot was of a hybrid version, so I expected a better MPG. But I think it's just my wishful thinking :). You have to figure in the electrical mileage for an overall. The way it sits should be getting around 20 something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheeling Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 GT has only 18 miles, based on this review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangchief Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Wheeling said: GT has only 18 miles, based on this review. Maybe he got in after it was charged in preserve to 75%, you need a charger to get a full charge. 18 is 75% of 25...just sayin. Or the dash pic above was an error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolScoop Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just hours away for GT reviews to start popping up... hopefully they'll shed some light on the actual range and milage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msm859 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, CoolScoop said: Just hours away for GT reviews to start popping up... hopefully they'll shed some light on the actual range and milage! And hopefully someone will comment on how it actually drives in EV mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheeling Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 2020 Lincoln Aviator Grand Touring Hybrid Specifications ON SALE Fall PRICE Grand Touring, $69,895; Black Label Grand Touring, $88,895 ENGINE 3.0L twin-turbo 24-valve DOHC V-6 with 101-hp electric motor; total system output, 494 hp @ 5,500 rpm, 630 lb-ft @ 3,000 rpm BATTERY PACK 13.6-kWh lithium-ion TRANSMISSION 10-speed automatic LAYOUT 4-door, 6- or 7-passenger, front-engine, AWD SUV EPA MILEAGE 17/24 mpg (city/hwy) ELECTRIC RANGE 18 miles (est) L x W x H 199.3 x 82.3 x 69.6 in WHEELBASE 119.1 in WEIGHT 5,673 lb 0–60 MPH 5.5 sec (est) Edited August 22, 2019 by Wheeling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 22 minutes ago, Wheeling said: 2020 Lincoln Aviator Grand Touring Hybrid Specifications ON SALE Fall PRICE Grand Touring, $69,895; Black Label Grand Touring, $88,895 ENGINE 3.0L twin-turbo 24-valve DOHC V-6 with 101-hp electric motor; total system output, 494 hp @ 5,500 rpm, 630 lb-ft @ 2,250 rpm BATTERY PACK 13.6-kWh lithium-ion TRANSMISSION 10-speed automatic LAYOUT 4-door, 6- or 7-passenger, front-engine, AWD SUV EPA MILEAGE 17/24 mpg (city/hwy) ELECTRIC RANGE 18 miles (est) L x W x H 199.3 x 82.3 x 69.6 in WHEELBASE 119.1 in WEIGHT 5,673 lb 0–60 MPH 5.5 sec (est) Fixed for you. Source: https://media.lincoln.com/content/dam/lincolnmedia/lna/us/product/2020/Aviator/2020-Aviator-Grand-Touring-Fact-Sheet2.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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