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silvrsvt

How the New Ford Escape Drew Inspiration from BMW Motorcycles

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2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Maybe young designers at Ford like Andrew Bazinski will help make that happen. Mr. Bazinski said in the interview that he and other designers are very fond of wagons. That makes sense, as wagons are much nicer looking than crossovers.

Quote

"I wish car companies could bring back wagons. I wish there were more wagons here. That might be a designer thing."

 

It's tricky to know even with supporting data, what people do and don't like and if that's just isolated pockets.

I still sense that the market is not completely sold on jacked up wagons but that could simply be because GM
and Ford have deliberately stayed away from them to reinforce total push at Utilities.. It may take an actual vehicle
for people to see and drive before they realise that they like it.... but Ford will want to fill all other product gaps first...

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8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

It's tricky to know even with supporting data, what people do and don't like and if that's just isolated pockets.

I still sense that the market is not completely sold on jacked up wagons but that could simply be because GM
and Ford have deliberately stayed away from them to reinforce total push at Utilities.. It may take an actual vehicle
for people to see and drive before they realise that they like it.... but Ford will want to fill all other product gaps first...

Many companies have offered wagons.  People don't buy them.

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19 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

They toned it down, but they didn't even know the existence of the Baby Bronco at the time. 

I was just thinking, why not just call it the Bronco Escape? I Kinda like that better then the other names so far trotted out and works better if they are building it as a sub brand. 

The Escape is an established nameplate (it has been on the market for close to 20 years). At this point, it's strong enough to stand on its own. Plus, it would "water down" the Bronco name...my wife has a 2014 Escape and loves it, but I can't see her being too excited about any Bronco, baby or otherwise. She has expressed interest in the new Escape.

Leave the Escape for buyers such as her.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

Many companies have offered wagons.  People don't buy them.

Subaru is the exception.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

Many companies have offered wagons.  People don't buy them.

Many companies failed to give wagons much push, again with Subaru as the exception.

When's the last Ford Flex commercial you saw?  How many years back?

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40 minutes ago, ZanatWork said:

Many companies failed to give wagons much push, again with Subaru as the exception.

rmc523 is correct. Sadly, even if automakers introduced new wagons for the U.S. market and put forth a big marketing push for them, consumers would probably still ignore them for the most part. These consumers don't care about automotive styling. That's why they choose crossovers (which are all either boring or ugly to look at) rather than a much nicer looking wagon/estate/shooting brake in the first place.

The comment from Ford designer Andrew Bazinski can be summed up as "automotive designers prefer vehicles that look good like wagons and wish that automakers brought wagons back, but consumers in the U.S. simply don't care".

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

rmc523 is correct. Sadly, even if automakers introduced new wagons for the U.S. market and put forth a big marketing push for them, consumers would probably still ignore them for the most part. These consumers don't care about automotive styling. That's why they choose crossovers (which are all either boring or ugly to look at) rather than a much nicer looking wagon/estate/shooting brake in the first place.

The comment from Ford designer Andrew Bazinski can be summed up as "automotive designers prefer vehicles that look good like wagons and wish that automakers brought wagons back, but consumers in the U.S. simply don't care".

I’m not so sure about that. If wagons were nicer looking, they’d be flying off the shelves. You can’t blame marketing either. When was the last time you saw a commercial for a ford car? I only ever see trucks, SUVs and maybe a mustang commercial here and there. Fusion gets minimal advertising and it still sells well. I think the problem with wagons is they almost always look like an afterthought. Like they took the sedan and just added the back end on it. The proportions always seem off too. That’s why I like the flex. It was designed as a wagon from the get go and doesn’t have a sedan counterpart.

besides the looks, there’s other things holding wagons back too. I’d say it’s easier to get things out of the back of an suv than a wagon. Also many elderly people find it easier to get in and out of a taller vehicle.

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1 hour ago, T-dubz said:

I’m not so sure about that. If wagons were nicer looking, they’d be flying off the shelves. You can’t blame marketing either. When was the last time you saw a commercial for a ford car? I only ever see trucks, SUVs and maybe a mustang commercial here and there. Fusion gets minimal advertising and it still sells well. I think the problem with wagons is they almost always look like an afterthought. Like they took the sedan and just added the back end on it. The proportions always seem off too. That’s why I like the flex. It was designed as a wagon from the get go and doesn’t have a sedan counterpart.

besides the looks, there’s other things holding wagons back too. I’d say it’s easier to get things out of the back of an suv than a wagon. Also many elderly people find it easier to get in and out of a taller vehicle.

Every time a wagon is available but doesn’t sell well all you hear are excuses.  It’s too expensive.  No advertising.  Poor styling.  If people wanted wagons they’d be selling better and there would be more options.  People prefer crossovers.  There is a small market for wagons but they need to share a lot with crossovers to make them viable and they need unique styling and/or features to make them more viable.  E.g a Fusion wagon won’t cut it.

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6 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Many companies have offered wagons.  People don't buy them.

Yes they have and conventional station wagons don't work, even sports wagons were hard to justify.  So whatever
replaces sedans at the crossover point needs to be more sophisticated than a sedan with a box stuck on the back.

We know that Focus Active didn't clinic well for Ford but many of those clinics have also been proven to be
inaccurate in the past as they're only a small sample of buyers who may or may not reflect market shift.


 

Edited by jpd80

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The last major success story for wagons was 30 years ago-namely the Taurus and to lesser degree GMs big sedans when they went for bathtub look. 

The other reason why most manufacturers haven’t put money into wagons is that they don’t come close to profit margins that CUVs offer. Average wagon only added 1-2k premium over a sedan, when a CUV would be double that. Why invest in something that really isn’t in demand and costs roughly the same raw materials and development wise? 

Its like the personal two coupe market-a generational thing that had no legs. There seems to be this subculture with wagons, but it doesn’t offer the profitability to even consider investing in at the numbers they would sell. 

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Of course Ford would base their vehicle design off the ugliest, dorkiest looking motorcycles on the road; if only Ford knew Moped was a thing, we could have had something really inspired!

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22 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

The last major success story for wagons was 30 years ago-namely the Taurus and to lesser degree GMs big sedans when they went for bathtub look. 

The other reason why most manufacturers haven’t put money into wagons is that they don’t come close to profit margins that CUVs offer. Average wagon only added 1-2k premium over a sedan, when a CUV would be double that. Why invest in something that really isn’t in demand and costs roughly the same raw materials and development wise? 

Its like the personal two coupe market-a generational thing that had no legs. There seems to be this subculture with wagons, but it doesn’t offer the profitability to even consider investing in at the numbers they would sell. 

So whatever Ford decided to do for car replacement, they took the idea from concept to engineering submission
in 12 weeks,  confirming it will be on sale to customers in 2022 CY.  My guess is this is the  Fusion replacement so, people will be interested to know just what this whitespace vehicle is..... the "hand tip" suggests it's a derivative of an existing vehicle.

The big question is how do they thread the needle between  a car  like Focus/Fusion and Utilities like Escape/Edge without falling into the Station wagon trap or the ugly MPV profile, it's a fine line to ride and a very interesting product genesis to follow...

Edited by jpd80

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On 8/16/2019 at 5:48 PM, jpd80 said:

Yes they have and conventional station wagons don't work, even sports wagons were hard to justify.  So whatever
replaces sedans at the crossover point needs to be more sophisticated than a sedan with a box stuck on the back.

We know that Focus Active didn't clinic well for Ford but many of those clinics have also been proven to be
inaccurate in the past as they're only a small sample of buyers who may or may not reflect market shift.


 

I still don't get how Focus Active didn't clinic well.  It's just a next-gen Focus hatch, which sold well.  I think they presented it to the clinic as a "crossover" and therefore didn't clinic well because people saw right through that (that it's a hatch with some black cladding), and then Ford used that as an excuse to just drop it.

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