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K270

Have a AC issue

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I hope this is in the right area. I apologize if it isn't. I'm trying to self diagnose a possible problem with my AC. While driving my 2012 Ford Escape XLT on Wednesday night, I had the AC on full blast. I was loving the cool air since it was 99 degrees at the time. Then the air stopped flowing. Took it to the mechanic on Thursday morning and it was diagnosed as a bad blower motor. Told them to go ahead and fix it. Picked the car up on Friday morning and brought the car home. Left for work on Friday afternoon and turned on the AC and wasn't getting any cool air. Blower was blowing at all speeds, just no cool air. I figured the AC would start to blow cool air as the engine warmed up, but nothing. There were a couple brief moments when cooler did seem to come out of the vents, but it quickly went back to regular air. Just wondering how the AC can be working fine on Wednesday, then not be working once the blower motor is repaired. I called the shop and they told me to bring the vehicle back. I will do that on Tuesday, but hoping I can go in with some knowledge. Thanks in advance for any help. 

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It's either a bad condenser or evaporator if I had to guess.

Did they replace the whole blower? If so what likely happened in your case since the blower and the evaporator are effectively one piece when the blower was replaced the a/c lines didn't properly re-seal and all of the refrigerant leaked out. Have you noticed an oily smell since then? That's a dead giveaway the evaporator is leaking. 

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Really haven't noticed one. Of course my drive to work was only 7 or 8 miles. If the shop didn't do the repair correctly, hopefully they own up to it and fix it at no charge. 

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It's not necessarily anything they did wrong. Could be something like an o-ring not sealing properly. 

If there's is an oily smell, you'll notice it pretty quickly. My Focus had the evaporator go out and it's not something that just goes away quickly. 

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On a 2012 Escape, the blower motor is easily replaced. There is no reason for them to touch anything related to The refrigerant. Let us know what they diagnose the issue as. 

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The refrigerant system will be full of air. When the blower motor stops, the AC system can, and will, go into vacuum on the low side because they have a TXV and NO low side monitoring (pressure switch, temp sensor, etc). Static, a vacuum on the low side won't, but running in vacuum pulls air in past the crank seal on the compressor. You will need to recover the refrigerant,  replace the drier and recharge with the correct amount of R134. 

It is nothing that the repair facility did. It is a design fault with the HVAC on that era Escape. 

Edited by YT90SC

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4 hours ago, fordtech1 said:

On a 2012 Escape, the blower motor is easily replaced. There is no reason for them to touch anything related to The refrigerant. Let us know what they diagnose the issue as. 

 

 

Will do! Taking back Tuesday morning.

2 hours ago, YT90SC said:

The refrigerant system will be full of air. When the blower motor stops, the AC system can, and will, go into vacuum on the low side because they have a TXV and NO low side monitoring (pressure switch, temp sensor, etc). Static, a vacuum on the low side won't, but running in vacuum pulls air in past the crank seal on the compressor. You will need to recover the refrigerant,  replace the drier and recharge with the correct amount of R134. 

It is nothing that the repair facility did. It is a design fault with the HVAC on that era Escape. 

Thank you! This may be a stupid question, but when you say replace the drier, is that a big job or hard to do? I'm hoping they can get my vehicle back to me within a couple of hours. 

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It isn't hard. 2 to 3 hours is probably about right, dependent on availability of parts. 

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According to AllData, the book hours are just over 1 hour to replace the drier on my F-150 and about 30 minutes to replace the one on my old LS, so I'd imagine that they could do the work in a morning or afternoon, depending on how busy they are. Both said that doesn't include evacuating and refilling the AC system, so 2-3 hours is probably a reasonable estimate for how long the work should actually take.

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Ugh......The last time the blower motor was replaced I didn't have to go through this. The blower was replaced in Nov of 2017. Checked the paper work and there's no mention of a drier or recharging the AC system. Took it to the same place this time as last time. Oh well, I guess they'll get more of my money. Thanks for replying and helping hopefully helping me figuring this out. 

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Well, received the Escape back and I'm still scratching my head. The shop inspected my complaint but could not verify at that time. Checked system pressures. Pressures checked normal. Ran vehicle in shop with A/C on. A/C system blowing 40 degrees and operating normally at this time. Checked for TSB'S #14-0157* Could possibly be related but we must have vehicle in a no a/c operation condition.  Customer is to monitor for the above complaint. Should the condition continue, reoccur or worsen, further diagnostics are recommended. Charges will apply. 

 

*Link to description of TSB's #14=-0157 https://ford.oemdtc.com/986/warm-ac-output-lack-of-blower-motor-operation-in-one-or-more-speed-settings-2008-2012-ford-escape-2008-2011-mercury-mariner

 

 

Above is the shops diagnosis. When I picked the vehicle up and started it, there was cool air coming from the vents. As I drove down the street, the cool air stopped. So I headed back to the shop. As I approached the shop I called ahead to let them know what was going on. I was trying to get the service advisor to come outside, but was put on hold. Then then the air started to blow cold again while it sat idling. I drove off. As I drove off the vehicle started to blow warmer air from the vents. The advisor stated to me that he had no problem with trying to further diagnose what was going on, but charges will apply. He told me to monitor the situation and call them on Monday. He went on to say it would be better if the a/c completely failed. Very  frustrated I needed food. I decided to drive a few miles away from home. As I got closer to the restaurant, the cold air started to blow again. So I decided to take the longer route to the restaurant. Cold air continued to blow. Finished eating, started to drive home, get cold air again. Took the extra long route home, all with cold, crisp air. Not sure whats going on and why, but we'll see what happens in the morning when I go out. Will I get cold air within a few minutes? Will it stay cold or be intermittent? Stay tuned as the drama continues to unfold. 

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Frustrations mounting quickly. Little to no cold air on Wednesday. I did get a few seconds of cold air, but as soon as I could feel it, it was gone. Now I don't know if I can believe the thermometer I was using. There were points that it read the air output temperature was 100 degrees. Yet it didn't feel like 100. Maybe the cabin temperature was above 100 degree so the air coming out of the vents felt cooler than it was? The outside temp was anywhere from 84 to 89 degrees. 

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Does it make sense that the higher the outside temp is, the less likely the A/C is to work.

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When I have any problems, I will first do a Google search. Because you are not alone with the same problem others experienced.

 

A few minutes search, someone said, "Bleed the AC high pressure line" would solve the problem.

 

You can go ahead and search online. Or may be I can search some more when I am free.

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I have searched and have come across a few things, one of them is bleeding the hi-pressure side with an Allen wrench. It still boggles my mind everything was fine up until the blower motor stopped worked. Had the blower motor fixed and now theres little to no A/C. I'll call the shop on Monday and suggest to them about bleeding the hi-pressure side and see what they say. 

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On 8/17/2019 at 4:30 AM, fordtech1 said:

. Let us know what they diagnose the issue as. 

 

 

Brought the Escape back to the mechanic yesterday.

 

Customer Complaint:

Inspect customer states, A/C is ions when driving in warm conditions. A/C will work on cool nights. A/C also seems to work often while parked at idle and seems to stop working when driving. 

 

Description of repairs or services performed:

 

**Inspected the customers complaint. Road tested the vehicle but could not verify.

 

**Scanned te he HAVC module for codes. No code are stored at this time. Engine temperature is running in the normal range. Cooling fans are running full time. Checked Identyfix. Identyfix shows a high failure rate of A/C Transducer/Pressure switch. Tested A/C Transducer/Pressure switch. Switch tested out of range. Switch does have a 5 volt reference and a good ground. We also found a high failure rate of the expansion valve. 

 

Based on the above inspections we performed the following:

 

**Replaced the A/C Transducer/Pressure switch. Replaced Expansion Valve

 

With the system components connected we evacuated the system and verified the system held vacuum for 15 minutes.

      Added refrigerant oil to the system

      Re Charged the system with a full charge of refrigerant

      Re checked the system operation

      Leak checked the system with a full charge and there are no other leaks apparent at this time (see air condition advisory)

 

**Performed a final round road test to verify the original complaints are no longer apparent and all repairs are satisfactory.

 

 

As of now, everything seems to be blowing cool. Fingers are crossed this continues.

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13 hours ago, K270 said:

 

 

Brought the Escape back to the mechanic yesterday.

 

Customer Complaint:

Inspect customer states, A/C is ions when driving in warm conditions. A/C will work on cool nights. A/C also seems to work often while parked at idle and seems to stop working when driving. 

 

Description of repairs or services performed:

 

**Inspected the customers complaint. Road tested the vehicle but could not verify.

 

**Scanned te he HAVC module for codes. No code are stored at this time. Engine temperature is running in the normal range. Cooling fans are running full time. Checked Identyfix. Identyfix shows a high failure rate of A/C Transducer/Pressure switch. Tested A/C Transducer/Pressure switch. Switch tested out of range. Switch does have a 5 volt reference and a good ground. We also found a high failure rate of the expansion valve. 

 

Based on the above inspections we performed the following:

 

**Replaced the A/C Transducer/Pressure switch. Replaced Expansion Valve

 

With the system components connected we evacuated the system and verified the system held vacuum for 15 minutes.

      Added refrigerant oil to the system

      Re Charged the system with a full charge of refrigerant

      Re checked the system operation

      Leak checked the system with a full charge and there are no other leaks apparent at this time (see air condition advisory)

 

**Performed a final round road test to verify the original complaints are no longer apparent and all repairs are satisfactory.

 

 

As of now, everything seems to be blowing cool. Fingers are crossed this continues.

 

The evac, recover and recharge is what made it work, not the parts that Identifix said to toss at it. The sensor was "out of range" because it was overcharged by the air that got into it when the cabin fan quit. 

 

You still need a drier to deal with the moisture that was sucked in with the air. 

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So what can happen if the drier isn't replaced? Will more problems present themselves?

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2 hours ago, YT90SC said:

 

 

The evac, recover and recharge is what made it work, not the parts that Identifix said to toss at it. The sensor was "out of range" because it was overcharged by the air that got into it when the cabin fan quit. 

 

You still need a drier to deal with the moisture that was sucked in with the air. 

I agree with all the above. However, I don’t see why the drier has to be replaced as long as the desiccant bag hasn’t ruptured. I see that no different that a leak that emptied the system. Applying 28 inches of vacuum  should boil out all the moisture. However, it would be recommended that the system be on a vacuum pump for at least 30 Mins and let set under that vacuum for another 30. If no vacuum loss, then moisture has been boiled out. 

Unfortunately with a TXV and not a removable orfice tube, it’s hard to see how much trash is in the system. 

I suspect the system will work for quite some time without issue. 

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