fuzzymoomoo Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 2 hours ago, akirby said: We heard 2023 and employees weren’t happy it was going to take so long. TBH if that is true you can include me in that group. It flies directly in the face of everything Jim Hackett has been saying about shortening development time. It's already been in development for at least a year and a half, probably close to 2 by now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 10 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: TBH if that is true you can include me in that group. It flies directly in the face of everything Jim Hackett has been saying about shortening development time. It's already been in development for at least a year and a half, probably close to 2 by now. Maybe it shows up sooner, but they don’t have unlimited resources. Sometimes you have to delay some projects to get others done sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, akirby said: Maybe it shows up sooner, but they don’t have unlimited resources. Sometimes you have to delay some projects to get others done sooner. I'm wondering if they want 2023MY so that in that one year they have 2-row mid-sized crossovers coming out with 1) boosted ICE, 2) performance-oriented PHEV, and 3) BEV. But you are probably right. Most likely management of scarce product-development resources. Even so, 2022MY or an early-release 2023 wouldn't surprise me. Edited August 31, 2019 by Gurgeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) On 8/30/2019 at 11:50 AM, passis said: Does anyone know a bit more about Ford's "emerging markets" products, such as NG Ka/Figo/Aspire (Project B680-S) and crossovers (many codes I came across: BX563, BX744, BX745, BX755, BX775...)? Also, does anyone know if/how the platform used by Yusheng S330 / Territory is related to a proper Ford platform? It seems, from what I found, that JMC vans are based on the Transit platform and Yusheng S350 is related to the Everest (Ranger). Is that so? Has the Territory anything to do with T6? Ka/Figo/Aspire is going to use a value-engineered Fiesta platform so I don't think there is any significant drama there. It's now South America only project I believe as Europe has dropped out preferring to focus on Fiesta only for the car side and EcoSport and Puma on the CUV side. Open question on whether Ford China will join the program. India will go with Mahindra based replacement. The crossover is a bit of mystery. I think the current South America designed EcoSport is likely to be split into at least 2 different models - one in India which will be replaced by a Manhindra based CUV, and one in South America/Europe, probably based on the value-engineered B architecture that will also underpin the Ka/Figo. The reason for the split is obvious... market demands for India (4 meters length and no demand for safety equipment) is vastly different than elsewhere. Don't forget also that Zyote Ford is also coming out with a whole bunch of cheap cars/CUVs based on Zyote platform, similar to the arrangement with Manhindra. Some of these may even find its way overseas. Yusheng S330/Territory is *probably* based on the CD2 Escape. There is no definitive proof but there was report around 2014 that Ford shipped the CD2 Escape tooling from Ford Taiwan to China after production ended in Taiwan. Most people expected that means we will see cheap rebadged Escape under the JMC brand but it never happened. Instead, we had Yusheng S330 that came out about 18 months after Ford Taiwan switched to making Kuga. Jiangling is also using this platform to make its one CUV for its Landwind brand (the infamous Range Rover Evoque rip off) so it probably had some involvement in the development. Future version of this car will likely use C2 platform. JMC Yuhu pickup truck and Yusheng S350 SUV are *probably* based on the previous gen Ranger (the one before T6). Again, there is no proof but Yuhu and Yusheng S350 (which is BOF SUV based on Yuhu platform) are similar in size to the previous gen Ranger and Everest. The big clue is timing... previous gen Ranger/Everest ended production in Thailand in 2011 - Yuhu and Yusheng S350 came out in 2012. And if you want to read into the fact that Yuhu, S350, and T6 Everest are all build on the same assembly line by Jingling Ford, you can probably guess they have a fairly high degree of commonality. Future version of these two vehicles will likely use T6 platform. JMC Teshun is rebadged Mk3 Transit which Jiangling Ford finally stopped selling in 2017. I think as long as the drivetrain meet emission standards in China, it will be in production. In theory, Ford can cascade down Mk4 Transit (still sold as "New" Transit in China) to Teshun but that will leave Ford brand without a large van in China. The Mk5 FWD Transit and Toureno Custom are available in China but it is obviously smaller than the RWD Mk4. Edited September 3, 2019 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 BTW, I just noticed Ford took Yusheng S330 off the Yusheng website in China... so I guess Territory is replacing S350 for good. So maybe S350 is not long for this world either. The Maverick name is available... ? This website used to have both S330 and S350: http://suv.jmc.com.cn/ Now there is no S330 but only link to Territory on the JMC website: http://territory.jmc.com.cn/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passis Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, bzcat said: Ka/Figo/Aspire is going to use a value-engineered Fiesta platform so I don't think there is any significant drama there. It's now South America only project I believe as Europe has dropped out preferring to focus on Fiesta only for the car side and EcoSport and Puma on the CUV side. Open question on whether Ford China will join the program. India will go with Mahindra based replacement. The crossover is a bit of mystery. I think the current South America designed EcoSport is likely to be split into at least 2 different models - one in India which will be replaced by a Manhindra based CUV, and one in South America/Europe, probably based on the value-engineered B architecture that will also underpin the Ka/Figo. The reason for the split is obvious... market demands for India (4 meters length and no demand for safety equipment) is vastly different than elsewhere. Don't forget also that Zyote Ford is also coming out with a whole bunch of cheap cars/CUVs based on Zyote platform, similar to the arrangement with Manhindra. Some of these may even find its way overseas. Yusheng S330/Territory is *probably* based on the CD2 Escape. There is no definitive proof but there was report around 2014 that Ford shipped the CD2 Escape tooling from Ford Taiwan to China after production ended in Taiwan. Most people expected that means we will see cheap rebadged Escape under the JMC brand but it never happened. Instead, we had Yusheng S330 that came out about 18 months after Ford Taiwan switched to making Kuga. Jiangling is also using this platform to make its one CUV for its Landwind brand (the infamous Range Rover Evoque rip off) so it probably had some involvement in the development. Future version of this car will likely use C2 platform. JMC Yuhu pickup truck and Yusheng S350 SUV are *probably* based on the previous gen Ranger (the one before T6). Again, there is no proof but Yuhu and Yusheng S350 (which is BOF SUV based on Yuhu platform) are similar in size to the previous gen Ranger and Everest. The big clue is timing... previous gen Ranger/Everest ended production in Thailand in 2011 - Yuhu and Yusheng S350 came out in 2012. And if you want to read into the fact that Yuhu, S350, and T6 Everest are all build on the same assembly line by Jingling Ford, you can probably guess they have a fairly high degree of commonality. Future version of these two vehicles will likely use T6 platform. JMC Teshun is rebadged Mk3 Transit which Jiangling Ford finally stopped selling in 2017. I think as long as the drivetrain meet emission standards in China, it will be in production. In theory, Ford can cascade down Mk4 Transit (still sold as "New" Transit in China) to Teshun but that will leave Ford brand without a large van in China. The Mk5 FWD Transit and Toureno Custom are available in China but it is obviously smaller than the RWD Mk4. I was hoping Ford would replace the Ka/Fiesta for an Argentinian Escort, built on the existing C1-tooled plant in Pacheco. Most competitors are growing in size in South America... but I guess the B platform is finally admitting longer wheelbase. And thanks a lot for sharing all these interesting pieces of information about the Chinese models! It's really hard to find certain things about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 2022: Fullsize Bronco Pleeese Ford? ❤️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 On 9/11/2019 at 1:50 AM, probowler said: 2022: Fullsize Bronco Pleeese Ford? ❤️ You do realize that the new Ranger based Bronco will be virtually the same size as a 1995 Full sized Bronco? 1995 Bronco Stats: Length 183.6 in Height 74.4 in. Wheel Base 104.7 in. Width 79.1 in. 2019 Ranger Overall length 210 Overall height 71.1 Wheelbase 126.8 Width excluding mirrors 73.3 The Bronco will be less then 200 inches long more like around the 190 mark for a 4 door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 16 hours ago, silvrsvt said: You do realize that the new Ranger based Bronco will be virtually the same size as a 1995 Full sized Bronco? 1995 Bronco Stats: Length 183.6 in Height 74.4 in. Wheel Base 104.7 in. Width 79.1 in. 2019 Ranger Overall length 210 Overall height 71.1 Wheelbase 126.8 Width excluding mirrors 73.3 The Bronco will be less then 200 inches long more like around the 190 mark for a 4 door. Well shit... I knew the ranger was a big boy but I didn't realize it got THAT big ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 23 minutes ago, probowler said: Well shit... I knew the ranger was a big boy but I didn't realize it got THAT big ? Most cars have gotten pretty damn big...look at a 1990s Civic-its the same size as a Honda Fit or smaller! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromey Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I’ve heard everything from the Continental and MKZ being discontinued after 2020 to one or both of them showing up on the CD6 platform, presumably in 2021. Any insight on their future? Interesting to me they are doing another Coach Edition run on the Continental. Last hurrah or something to keep people interested in that car for a bit while they get the next one queued up? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I'd like to think it's the latter..........but who knows! If.....IF they build a CD6 saloon in the near future, I really hope that long rumored S550 (or S650 by then!) 2 door Lincoln coupe becomes a reality too. Lincoln's styling is red hot at the moment (and the interiors are gorgeous, too) so to see that adapted to a low slung front engined rear drive coupe would be sensational. But, right now, its not even clear if/when the Mustang moves to CD6 (rumors suggest anything from '23MY to '26-28MY!!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Chromey said: I’ve heard everything from the Continental and MKZ being discontinued after 2020 to one or both of them showing up on the CD6 platform, presumably in 2021. Any insight on their future? Interesting to me they are doing another Coach Edition run on the Continental. Last hurrah or something to keep people interested in that car for a bit while they get the next one queued up? 20 minutes ago, Twin Turbo said: But, right now, its not even clear if/when the Mustang moves to CD6 (rumors suggest anything from '23MY to '26-28MY!!!!) Flat Rock is getting a BEV Crossover that is roughly Edge sized for Ford and Lincoln in 2023...so I think the Continental will be in production til then. The Mustang is getting another refresh and supposedly a hybrid for 2021, but not 100% sure how they can make that work with the current platform, unless they find a way to fit the battery pack in the spare tire wheel well, since the S550/S197 platform isn't made to be a hybrid. The MKZ and Fusion production end next year. The plant they are built at is getting LWB C class products like the Transit Connect and the upcoming small pickup and other C based products. I don't expect to hear anything official about what is happening in Mexico production wise til after the UAW contract is signed. Mexico is supposed to get the Mach E, Baby Bronco, Transit Connect and Small Pickup at a minimum to replace Fiesta, Fusion and MKZ production in the two plants there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: The Mustang is getting another refresh and supposedly a hybrid for 2021 Thank you......is that '21 calendar year or model year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, Twin Turbo said: Thank you......is that '21 calendar year or model year? I'm assuming 2021-There is so much happening with the Mach E, Baby Bronco, Bronco and F-150 next year that Ford will have its plate full with that. I'd expect a Spring 2021 release date. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromey Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Thanks for the insight on those. May have to buy one of the last ones, CPO, to bridge the gap until they decide to bring them back as I like to have one sedan, one suv and one truck in the fleet at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 13 hours ago, Chromey said: I’ve heard everything from the Continental and MKZ being discontinued after 2020 to one or both of them showing up on the CD6 platform, presumably in 2021. Any insight on their future? Interesting to me they are doing another Coach Edition run on the Continental. Last hurrah or something to keep people interested in that car for a bit while they get the next one queued up? This is pure conjecture on my part, but I think that the next Continental will be BEV only. A big Ford EV sedan would follow, possibly using a legacy name like Thunderbird or Galaxie. If there's an MKZ replacement (Zephyr?), I assume that it would be ICE powered. As for CD6 or C2, your guess is as good as mine(or better). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromey Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Interesting. I can see some potential for a flagship luxury model that is BEV only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Chromey said: Interesting. I can see some potential for a flagship luxury model that is BEV only. There was a rumor about a month or 2 ago about that. Maybe Continental turns into that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 9 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: There was a rumor about a month or 2 ago about that. Maybe Continental turns into that? Well gotta do something with the Skateboard design they are getting from Rivian Not sure how they are slotting the product based off Rivian skateboard-looking at how big the Rivian SUV is (same size as the Explorer) I'm assuming its going to be a Lincoln based product to supplement the Aviator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 On 9/13/2019 at 3:38 PM, probowler said: Well shit... I knew the ranger was a big boy but I didn't realize it got THAT big ? Shortly after the ROW Ranger was launched, I saw one "up close and personal" near an F150. That is when I realized that the Ford management argument that it was "too big" was probably right ! I am glad they changed their mind, especially since it begat the RWD Explorer and now the the Bronco. I am dying to see the final version but My guess is that won't happen until NAIAS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Well gotta do something with the Skateboard design they are getting from Rivian Not sure how they are slotting the product based off Rivian skateboard-looking at how big the Rivian SUV is (same size as the Explorer) I'm assuming its going to be a Lincoln based product to supplement the Aviator? They could make it a big crossover coupe type thing (think Audi A8) with a massive back seat and no third row with a more dramatic roofline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Well gotta do something with the Skateboard design they are getting from Rivian Not sure how they are slotting the product based off Rivian skateboard-looking at how big the Rivian SUV is (same size as the Explorer) I'm assuming its going to be a Lincoln based product to supplement the Aviator? Remains to be seen. I'm just speculating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.I. Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Great thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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