Perpetual Future Ford Products thread

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Unifor contract (if ratified) is a 3 year contract. It will expire in 2023. 

Thanks-I thought it might go in effect January of 2021. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

17 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Thanks-I thought it might go in effect January of 2021. 

Ford always negotiates Union contracts to be retroactive to the date the previous one expired. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by fuzzymoomoo

[rmc523]

Seems like major gaps are coming in the product line, and I'm not sure why.

[fuzzymoomoo]

31 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Seems like major gaps are coming in the product line, and I'm not sure why.

We're probably missing a few key pieces of the puzzle that haven't been announced yet 

[bzcat]

This probably doesn't deserve its own thread but Ford China gave the old 3rd gen RWD fullsize Transit a deep update with front end that looks similar to Transit Custom, new cabin, and for the first time, automatic transmission. And a new name: Transit Pro.

 

https://www.autohome.com.cn/advice/202009/1042971.html?pvareaid=2023231

 

The current 3rd gen Transit called "Transit New Era" (but apparently will be renamed Transit Pro) is still the best selling fullsize van in China despite fierce competition from local brands.

 

For those keeping score, Ford is selling three different Transits in China:

 

2nd gen Transit RWD - JMC Teshun (formerly Transit Classic until 2017)

3rd gen Transit RWD - Ford Transit Pro (formerly Transit New Era)

1st gen Transit Custom FWD - Ford "New Transit" 

1st gen Tourneo Custom FWD - Ford Tourneo

 

Never mind, ausrutherford made a thread about it already.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by bzcat

[silvrsvt]

4 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

You need to upload the master bargaining agreement that’s where it has the balance out information. That’s our local one. 

 

Can you post the link?

 

 

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Seems like major gaps are coming in the product line, and I'm not sure why.

 

2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

We're probably missing a few key pieces of the puzzle that haven't been announced yet 

 

Like what? The biggest thing I can think of is some sort of lower end product.

 

The OHAP BEV replaces the Edge/Nautilus in the lineup due to timing...assuming the names will be carried over (which would be stupid if they didn't)

 

I'm assuming the OAP plant is getting something bigger, but that calls into the question of what the future of the Explorer is, but at the same time I don't see how either rumored product could replace it at combined expected sales number of 150K...I can see maybe a Lincoln there?

 

 

 

 

[Oac98]

10 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Can you post the link?

 

 

https://www.unifor.org/sites/default/files/documents/document/ford_master_bargaining_brochure-final.pdf

[fuzzymoomoo]

57 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Like what? The biggest thing I can think of is some sort of lower end product.

Thats the 2 billion dollar  question 

[Harley Lover]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

I'm assuming the OAP plant is getting something bigger, but that calls into the question of what the future of the Explorer is, but at the same time I don't see how either rumored product could replace it at combined expected sales number of 150K...I can see maybe a Lincoln there?

 

This isn't the correct answer, but what if the 100k sales product is Mustang, the 50k sales product is a Lincoln derivative, and the 3 20k sales products are the Mustang and Lincoln performance variants (maybe 1 of the variants is a BEV Continental built off the Lincoln bones). I'm trying to think of what product from Ford would represent 100k in sales, with a 50k companion product, and those 2 make sense. I cannot imagine Mustang not being built in the U.S., but I can't come up with anything else to fill those sales totals. 

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

 

Like what? The biggest thing I can think of is some sort of lower end product.

 

The OHAP BEV replaces the Edge/Nautilus in the lineup due to timing...assuming the names will be carried over (which would be stupid if they didn't)

 

I'm assuming the OAP plant is getting something bigger, but that calls into the question of what the future of the Explorer is, but at the same time I don't see how either rumored product could replace it at combined expected sales number of 150K...I can see maybe a Lincoln there?

 

 

 

 

 

Guess I forgot about the OHAP BEVs (which still doesn't make sense to me) that would presumably take that slot in the lineup.

[Oac98]

2 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

This isn't the correct answer, but what if the 100k sales product is Mustang, the 50k sales product is a Lincoln derivative, and the 3 20k sales products are the Mustang and Lincoln performance variants (maybe 1 of the variants is a BEV Continental built off the Lincoln bones). I'm trying to think of what product from Ford would represent 100k in sales, with a 50k companion product, and those 2 make sense. I cannot imagine Mustang not being built in the U.S., but I can't come up with anything else to fill those sales totals. 

Oakville will be all BEV according to this contract I can’t see any Mustang ever being built outside of Michigan! 

[bzcat]

Mustang is staying on S550 so Ford is not going to invest in another plant to build it.

 

Ford will need EVs in the size of Escape, Edge, and Explorer, and wagon and fastback versions of each, plus Lincoln derivatives. So by my count, that is at least 9 EVs with only 1 currently account for (MACH E - Edge size fastback)

 

1. Escape size wagon back (???)

2. Escape size fastback (???)

3. Edge size wagon back (OHAP)

4. Edge size fastback/Mach E (Cuautitlan) 

5. Explorer size wagon back (Oakville?)

6. Explorer size fastback (Oakville?)

7. Corsair size (???)

8. Nautilus size (OHAP)

9. Aviator size (Oakville?)

 

The interesting thing here as some have deduced... UAW knows how to count too and I wonder what they will do if next generation Explorer or Escape (which are due around 2027-28 and almost surely will be pure EV) ends up in Canada. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by bzcat

[Oac98]

2 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Mustang is staying on S550 so Ford is not going to invest in another plant to build it.

 

Ford will need EVs in the size of Escape, Edge, and Explorer, and wagon and fastback versions of each, plus Lincoln derivatives. So by my count, that is at least 9 EVs with only 1 currently account for (MACH E - Edge side fastback)

 

1. Escape size wagon back (???)

2. Escape size fastback (???)

3. Edge size wagon back (OHAP)

4. Edge size fastback/Mach E (Cuautitlan) 

5. Explorer size wagon back (Oakville?)

6. Explorer size fastback (Oakville?)

7. Corsair size (???)

8. Nautilus size (OHAP)

9. Aviator size (Oakville?)

 

The interesting thing here as some have deduced... UAW knows how to count too and I wonder what they will do if next generation Explorer or Escape (which almost surely will be pure EV) ends up in Canada. 

The contract calls for large CUV so maybe you’re right. It would’ve been nice if they actually told us what these vehicles are actually called! Gonna be awhile I guess before any info is released. This is still over 4 years away! 

[sullynd]

Maybe OHAP Gets Explorer sized BEV and OAC gets Edge BEV instead? 
 

Where the heck is Ford going to get all these batteries?

[pffan1990]

My guess is that the large CUV would be the next generation Lincoln Continental. As for the other vehicles, I would guess perhaps the return of the Ford Thunderbird? Could be a sub-brand of it with the large T-Bird CUV as one of them and the 'performance models' being perhaps the low-volume 2-seater roadster and 4-seat coupe or 4-seat coup-ish wagon-ish whitespace type of vehicle. With the Mustang as sub-brand and return of Bronco, the Thunderbird's return would make great electric-only sub-brand for Ford, I would think. But I am just talking out of my head.

Oacjay98, have you found out more details about this '6.8 engine' project that was announced by Dias last week? I am hoping you got some details about it.

[fuzzymoomoo]

2 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Oakville will be all BEV according to this contract I can’t see any Mustang ever being built outside of Michigan! 

Mustang Mach-E would like a word 

[fuzzymoomoo]

2 hours ago, bzcat said:

Mustang is staying on S550 so Ford is not going to invest in another plant to build it.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. I'm not going to get into it but let's just say it's rumored there was a plan B of the 2019 contract wasn't ratified....

 

And no, Mexico wasn't involved. 

[silvrsvt]

16 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I wouldn't be too sure about that. I'm not going to get into it but let's just say it's rumored there was a plan B of the 2019 contract wasn't ratified....

 

And no, Mexico wasn't involved. 

 

I was wondering where the Mustang would have winded up at if Flat Rock was closed

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, bzcat said:

Mustang is staying on S550 so Ford is not going to invest in another plant to build it.

 

Ford will need EVs in the size of Escape, Edge, and Explorer, and wagon and fastback versions of each, plus Lincoln derivatives. So by my count, that is at least 9 EVs with only 1 currently account for (MACH E - Edge size fastback)

 

1. Escape size wagon back (???)

2. Escape size fastback (???)

3. Edge size wagon back (OHAP)

4. Edge size fastback/Mach E (Cuautitlan) 

5. Explorer size wagon back (Oakville?)

6. Explorer size fastback (Oakville?)

7. Corsair size (???)

8. Nautilus size (OHAP)

9. Aviator size (Oakville?)

 

The interesting thing here as some have deduced... UAW knows how to count too and I wonder what they will do if next generation Explorer or Escape (which are due around 2027-28 and almost surely will be pure EV) ends up in Canada. 

 

I don't the Explorer or Escape are going anywhere...if anything the product coming from Oakville is going to be additional/new product?

I'm also not sure, but I could be wrong that Ford thinks that they are going to switch the whole lineup of CUVs to BEV by the end of the 2020's. I see gas powered vehicles lasting til at least 2033-35 or so.

 

The current CD6 architecture could last that long as long as its updated regularly and wouldn't cost Ford a huge sum of money to do

 

Plus I don't think anyone is going to be able how to make a profit on a 30K BEV for a while yet, without some major cost breakthrough, so that really impacts the small and subcompact markets. 

[mackinaw]

1 hour ago, pffan1990 said:

Oacjay98, have you found out more details about this '6.8 engine' project that was announced by Dias last week? I am hoping you got some details about it.

 

From today's Detroit News.  Dias is being more vague about this new engine.  Note the "X."

 

"Additionally, Ford will invest more than $110 million in its Windsor powertrain facilities: "Ford has committed to source new 6.X L engines to the Windsor Engine Plant and sole source 5.0L engine assembly and current component machining to the Essex Engine plant, along with any derivatives," Unifor said in a release."

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2020/09/28/canadian-auto-workers-ok-contract-with-ford/3564771001/

[AGR]

8 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

 

Like what? The biggest thing I can think of is some sort of lower end product.

 

The OHAP BEV replaces the Edge/Nautilus in the lineup due to timing...assuming the names will be carried over (which would be stupid if they didn't)

 

I'm assuming the OAP plant is getting something bigger, but that calls into the question of what the future of the Explorer is, but at the same time I don't see how either rumored product could replace it at combined expected sales number of 150K...I can see maybe a Lincoln there?

 

 

 

 

 

I can see the Edge becoming EV only, with Ford covering the mid-size ICE CUV/SUV/wagon market with the Fusion, Bronco, and some sort of Explorer variant(a la VW Atlas Cross Sport). 

[Twin Turbo]

5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I wouldn't be too sure about that. I'm not going to get into it but let's just say it's rumored there was a plan B of the 2019 contract wasn't ratified....

 

And no, Mexico wasn't involved. 

 

Didn't the last UAW contract confirm that Flatrock would build the "all new Mustang" though?

[fuzzymoomoo]

2 hours ago, Twin Turbo said:

 

Didn't the last UAW contract confirm that Flatrock would build the "all new Mustang" though?

Yes, however there was allegedly a backup plan.

 

Like I said, I'm not getting into details. 

[Harley Lover]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Yes, however there was allegedly a backup plan.

 

Like I said, I'm not getting into details. 

 

1 point of clarification to my post about Mustang at OAC: I meant a Mustang and Lincoln variant in EV form. 

Yes, I know it will never happen.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Harley Lover