Perpetual Future Ford Products thread

[silvrsvt]

56 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

1 point of clarification to my post about Mustang at OAC: I meant a Mustang and Lincoln variant in EV form. 

Yes, I know it will never happen.

 

I'll say what Fuzzy is trying to say without saying it:

Flat Rock was a last minute save in the last UAW contract.  "Plan B" would have been moving current Mustang assembly to OAP if it did close. There really isn't any other plant in US that could handle producing it. 

As for OAP and its product situation-there is going to be some sort of BEV product built there and reading in between the lines on it, it will be a Ford Product and a Lincoln Product going by production numbers (100K for 1 and 50K for the other) that will be "new" products that aren't currently covered by current/known products. There are three 20K "performance" products that are slated to go there also, which I'm assuming are going to be a Shelby/Etc lineup for the Ford Product and maybe a performance variant for the Lincoln...as to the third one...no fucking clue. Lots of things can and will change in the next six years. 

 

The Mustang will get a refresh in the next 24 months and maybe one more deep refresh-I'd assume it will be due for a new platform post 2025 (since the S197/S550 would be 20 yrs old at that point), which reading the tea leaves on my part would indicate that at that point it would move to a BEV platform, possibly sharing it with the Mach E. 
 

[fuzzymoomoo]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I'll say what Fuzzy is trying to say without saying it:

Flat Rock was a last minute save in the last UAW contract.  "Plan B" would have been moving current Mustang assembly to OAP if it did close. There really isn't any other plant in US that could handle producing it. 

As for OAP and its product situation-there is going to be some sort of BEV product built there and reading in between the lines on it, it will be a Ford Product and a Lincoln Product going by production numbers (100K for 1 and 50K for the other) that will be "new" products that aren't currently covered by current/known products. There are three 20K "performance" products that are slated to go there also, which I'm assuming are going to be a Shelby/Etc lineup for the Ford Product and maybe a performance variant for the Lincoln...as to the third one...no fucking clue. Lots of things can and will change in the next six years. 

 

The Mustang will get a refresh in the next 24 months and maybe one more deep refresh-I'd assume it will be due for a new platform post 2025 (since the S197/S550 would be 20 yrs old at that point), which reading the tea leaves on my part would indicate that at that point it would move to a BEV platform, possibly sharing it with the Mach E. 
 

Close but not quite. Canada wasn't part of the deal either. 
 

I'm not going to say more than that because in all likelihood it won't happen but never say never. 

[silvrsvt]

6 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Close but not quite. Canada wasn't part of the deal either. 

 

Oh yeah...I forgot about the plant next to MAP ?

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

26 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Oh yeah...I forgot about the plant next to MAP ?

 

That's the new Bronco MOD center now. 

[bzcat]

15 hours ago, sullynd said:

Maybe OHAP Gets Explorer sized BEV and OAC gets Edge BEV instead? 
 

Where the heck is Ford going to get all these batteries?

 

The Edge size BEV is coming out in 2022 so it won't be at Oakville, which won't be retooled until 2024 per contract.

 

 

[Twin Turbo]

4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

 

The Mustang will get a refresh in the next 24 months and maybe one more deep refresh-I'd assume it will be due for a new platform post 2025 (since the S197/S550 would be 20 yrs old at that point), which reading the tea leaves on my part would indicate that at that point it would move to a BEV platform, possibly sharing it with the Mach E. 
 

 

The most recent report from Automotive news was that S650 (coming in 2022 as a '23MY) would last 8 years with a refresh in 2025 as a '26MY. They are assuming S650 moves fully to CD6, but good info here seems to infer that it'll be the current platform, but with the best bits of CD6 cherry picked. It was even stated on here that it will be called D5 (so, D2C + CD6 = D5)

 

EDIT - IT WAS EXPLORERDUDE  THAT POSTED:

 

"From what I’ve gathered and seen, yes the S650 will be launching for the 2023MY and it’s expected to use the same platform (D2C) which is now called D5. This was done for substantial cost savings. As it is the program is still pretty expensive.
 

But it’s expected to use many CD6 components. Again, apparently using all the CD6 components would’ve made it too big and too heavy. The S650 is basically a new top hat on the same platform with more CD6 components used.

I’ve seen a sketch, and it’s not that far off from this article’s illustration. I will say the roofline drops 1 inch to make it even more swept back. It will be gorgeous I can assure you"

 

 

Next-gen Mustang gets 8-year life cycle

August 17, 2020

The last car standing in Ford Motor Co.'s U.S. portfolio will stick around through at least the next decade.

The automaker plans to stretch the next-generation Mustang program to eight years, up from a previously planned six, suppliers have been told.

Production of the next-generation Mustang will begin in late 2022 for the 2023 model year, according to people familiar with Ford's product plans.

The expectation for an eight-year program mirrors the life cycle of the current model, which went on sale in 2014.

It's not uncommon for automakers to shift product timelines in the years leading up to the launch of a new or redesigned model. Extending the seventh-generation Mustang's life cycle could help Ford save on engineering and development costs for a relatively low-volume nameplate as consumers increasingly opt for utilities or pickups.

The extension also signals Ford's confidence in the storied nameplate even as rumors swirl that one of its competitors, the Chevrolet Camaro, could be discontinued.

The next-generation Mustang is expected to be moved to the same rear-wheel-drive/all-wheel-drive platform shared by the Ford Explorer and Lincoln Aviator, which could mean a slightly larger silhouette.

Suppliers have been told that annual production volume for the next-gen pony car will tally just under 100,000 vehicles a year: Coupe volumes are projected at 77,000, and up to an additional 20,000 convertibles are planned, suppliers say.

The vehicle is scheduled for a freshening in 2025, suppliers have been told.
 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Twin Turbo

[bzcat]

14 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I don't the Explorer or Escape are going anywhere...if anything the product coming from Oakville is going to be additional/new product?

I'm also not sure, but I could be wrong that Ford thinks that they are going to switch the whole lineup of CUVs to BEV by the end of the 2020's. I see gas powered vehicles lasting til at least 2033-35 or so.

 

The current CD6 architecture could last that long as long as its updated regularly and wouldn't cost Ford a huge sum of money to do

 

Plus I don't think anyone is going to be able how to make a profit on a 30K BEV for a while yet, without some major cost breakthrough, so that really impacts the small and subcompact markets. 

 

I think the market is going to shift pretty quickly after 2022 or 23 when lots of affordable EVs will hit the market. I agree ICE vehicles will be around well into the 2030s but it will be either outdated ancient legacy models being sold for cheap, or some type of nostalgic niche market like Bronco or Mustang where buyers prefer less efficient gas engines.

 

Ford is already planning to not replace ICE Edge that would normally be due in 2021 so what makes you think they will spend money to do another ICE Escape or Explorer that are due in 2026 or 27? At best, you'll see the ICE version of the current model limping around for bargain buyers until 2030 like the Edge is now being extended to 2023. But the mainstream volume products is going to be mainly BEV by that time frame. 

[silvrsvt]

1 minute ago, bzcat said:

 

I think the market is going to shift pretty quickly after 2022 or 23 when lots of affordable EVs will hit the market. I agree ICE vehicles will be around well into the 2030s but it will be either outdated ancient legacy models being sold for cheap, or some type of nostalgic niche market like Bronco or Mustang where buyers prefer less efficient gas engines.

 

Ford is already planning to not replace ICE Edge that would normally be due in 2021 so what makes you think they will spend money to do another ICE Escape or Explorer that are due in 2026 or 27? At best, you'll see the ICE version of the current model limping around for bargain buyers until 2030 like the Edge is now being extended to 2023. But the mainstream volume products is going to be mainly BEV by that time frame. 

 

Where are these affordable BEVs coming from? Even Tesla said they can't make money on a 30K BEV anytime soon and given their timelines for things, well its going to take another 5-10 years at least

 

"We're confident that long-term we can design and manufacture a compelling $25,000 electric vehicle," Musk said. It's expected to arrive in the next three years, and Musk even said the low-cost EV will boast full self-driving. Hmm. Of course, it's also important to note that Musk himself hinted at a $25,000 Tesla EV coming in three years... back in 2018. Perhaps that last bit is one of the reasons why Wall Street reacted poorly to Battery Day, chopping $50 billion off its stock value. The company's stock continued to decline Wednesday morning.

As for the ICE Edge...its a victim of circumstances-Not that popular in the EU or China and the addition of the Bronco and Fusion Wagon to the market and a mid size BEV for OHAP, the writing was on the wall for it and having China and the EU design their own replacements and the possibility of the extended Escape to the NA market, well it got pushed off the edge  I'm assuming Ford isn't too worried about losing its in NA with these additional products or it being coming a BEV that doesn't sell as many units. 

As for the Escape and Explorer-both products are fairly new and can live on til 2030 or so with updates then switch to a BEV platform. I think Ford is wanting to recoop the investment in the CD6, since the market has changed so much. 

The important thing for Ford is threading the needle in all of this...moving to BEVs too fast could hurt them more then it helps them. 

 

[mackinaw]

19 minutes ago, bzcat said:

I think the market is going to shift pretty quickly after 2022 or 23 when lots of affordable EVs will hit the market. I agree ICE vehicles will be around well into the 2030s but it will be either outdated ancient legacy models being sold for cheap, or some type of nostalgic niche market like Bronco or Mustang where buyers prefer less efficient gas engines.

 

Interesting article on Autoline Daily a few weeks back.  Somebody surveyed 110 powertrain experts from all parts of the industry.  The consensus was that BEV's would only make up 13% of the market by 2030.  

[FordBuyer]

Let's see...Ford has gone back into the dust pan of history and brought back Ranger, then Bronco, Maverick, Mach 1, and what is next. My bet is Thundebird. It's about time for a Thunderbird...every bit as iconic as Bronco. 

[BarneyFord]

On 9/29/2020 at 12:10 PM, mackinaw said:

 

Interesting article on Autoline Daily a few weeks back.  Somebody surveyed 110 powertrain experts from all parts of the industry.  The consensus was that BEV's would only make up 13% of the market by 2030.  

It’s interesting to go look at what was predicted in 2010.   

[ausrutherford]

7 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

Let's see...Ford has gone back into the dust pan of history and brought back Ranger, then Bronco, Maverick, Mach 1, and what is next. My bet is Thundebird. It's about time for a Thunderbird...every bit as iconic as Bronco. 

 

Put Capri, Falcon, and a few others on that list. 

[Oac98]

The AWD Edge is done in aug 2024. I was told this by union yesterday.  That will be the last model in production. Nautilus and all other Edges done in 23. I was told half of BEV units will be shipped to Europe because of CETA (Canadian European Trade Agreement). They said retooling could be 5-16 months! I doubt 16 months.I suppose with this trade agreement it’s cheaper for Ford to ship to EU from Oakville. 

[Oac98]

The AWD Edge is done in aug 2024. I was told this by union yesterday.  That will be the last model in production. Nautilus and all other Edges done in 23. I was told half of BEV units will be shipped to Europe because of CETA (Canadian European Trade Agreement). They said retooling could be 5-16 months! I doubt 16 months.I suppose with this trade agreement it’s cheaper for Ford to ship to EU from Oakville. 

[tzach]

On 9/29/2020 at 12:48 PM, bzcat said:

 

I think the market is going to shift pretty quickly after 2022 or 23 when lots of affordable EVs will hit the market. I agree ICE vehicles will be around well into the 2030s but it will be either outdated ancient legacy models being sold for cheap, or some type of nostalgic niche market like Bronco or Mustang where buyers prefer less efficient gas engines.

 

Ford is already planning to not replace ICE Edge that would normally be due in 2021 so what makes you think they will spend money to do another ICE Escape or Explorer that are due in 2026 or 27? At best, you'll see the ICE version of the current model limping around for bargain buyers until 2030 like the Edge is now being extended to 2023. But the mainstream volume products is going to be mainly BEV by that time frame. 

 

There is no way this will happen so fast.  Price has to come down, range has to go up, and charging time has to come down.  Then comes the slow mainstream changeover starting more on the coasts and moving to the middle of the country.  Just a guess but the decade of the '30's will be the accelerating change over and the '40's will be the fade out of the ICE to just the niche markets you mentioned.   

[First Light]

On 10/7/2020 at 10:04 PM, ausrutherford said:

 

Put Capri, Falcon, and a few others on that list. 

 

It would be cool to see a new Capri!

[Anthony]

47 minutes ago, First Light said:

 

It would be cool to see a new Capri!

 

If you want to see that name on a CUV, that's probably the only way it would happen.  No more cars.

[statd04]

I can't believe that ford won't be making the Edge any longer, The Edge was the reason we came back to Ford after our heart breaking buy's in the 04 and 06 Eddie Bauer Edition Explorer.

[silvrsvt]

8 hours ago, statd04 said:

I can't believe that ford won't be making the Edge any longer, The Edge was the reason we came back to Ford after our heart breaking buy's in the 04 and 06 Eddie Bauer Edition Explorer.

 

The Edge will be built to 2024...and replaced by a BEV Edge.

 

[ice-capades]

4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The Edge will be built to 2024...and replaced by a BEV Edge.

 

 

We'll see... TBD

[bzcat]

First spy shot of Ford India's C-CUV based on Mahindra XUV500.

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by bzcat

[passis]

Isn't it impressive that there are no leaks to be found regarding Ford's (arguably) most global vehicle, the Ecosport? Is the next generation that far away?

[bzcat]

22 hours ago, passis said:

Isn't it impressive that there are no leaks to be found regarding Ford's (arguably) most global vehicle, the Ecosport? Is the next generation that far away?

 

I'm guessing it is really that far away. If you look at the timeline, Puma really is the EcoSport replacement - it came out almost exactly 7 years after the 2nd gen EcoSport went on sale. Except Puma was a project driven by Ford Europe and so was never designed with low cost markets in mind.

 

The way Ford does new vehicle development, it is totally disjointed. Puma probably started as a joint project to replace EcoSport but Ford Europe probably got its way on certain requirements and that made the rest of the regions drop out. So a new program had to get approved and restarted and that means more delays.  

[AGR]

According to Auto Forecast Solutions, as quoted on Autoline Daily: all electric Corsair starts production at Oakville in 2026, Next all-new Mustang at Flat Rock in 2028

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, AGR said:

According to Auto Forecast Solutions, as quoted on Autoline Daily: all electric Corsair starts production at Oakville in 2026, Next all-new Mustang at Flat Rock in 2028

 

Corsair?  Or Nautilus?