Perpetual Future Ford Products thread

[rmc523]

20 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I thought it just got SYNC 3 when they redid the IP for 2020(?). 

 

Ford's site doesn't mention it, and the only thing they call out is "bluetooth radio".  It doesn't even have a touchscreen:

 

 

I also find the mishmash of various current and old Ford parts funny.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

Ford's site doesn't mention it, and the only thing they call out is "bluetooth radio".  It doesn't even have a touchscreen:

 

 

I also find the mishmash of various current and old Ford parts funny.

E-series is definitely on an island of its own. A total Enigma. 

[rmc523]

Ford Evos Spotted In Michigan With Covered Badges (fordauthority.com)

 

Evos was spotted in the US with badges covered.

[pffan1990]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Ford Evos Spotted In Michigan With Covered Badges (fordauthority.com)

 

Evos was spotted in the US with badges covered.

 

That actually looks nice.

 

-----

 

I seen something interesting earlier today about synthetic fuel that Ford is looking into. With its alliance with Red Bull, the synthetic fuel is carbon-neutral where it puts out as much carbon as it was used to produce the fuel. No modification would be needed for any production gasoline engines to run the synthetic fuel. Prices are already dropping on the one that Porsche uses for their 911 in their Mobil 1 Supercup racing series. Farley is quoted as saying that he wants loyal customers of F-Series, Bronco, and Mustang to continue to have experience with them. He said that electric tech is not yet capable for those who use trucks to tow. So the synthetic fuel is a good way to go for the next few decades with these work trucks and those 'Icons' like Bronco, Mustang, etc. It's a good idea that Ford has Blue, Model E, and Pro. Perhaps the S650 isn't the last ICE Mustang after all? This will be interesting to see what the future holds.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ford-save-v8-mustang-electric-synthetic-fuel

[DeluxeStang]

3 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Ford Evos Spotted In Michigan With Covered Badges (fordauthority.com)

 

Evos was spotted in the US with badges covered.

Saddens me that the evos isn't coming here. Sure, it would overlap a little bit with the mach-e in terms of size and form factor. But should be far more affordable in theory and appeal to people who aren't ready to transition to evs. 

[ausrutherford]

4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Ford Evos Spotted In Michigan With Covered Badges (fordauthority.com)

 

Evos was spotted in the US with badges covered.

 

Tailpipes are all weird. Maybe a mule for something else. 

 

Kind of weird, they removed the "Evos" name, which sits below the Ford badge on the tailgate, but they left the Changan Ford badge (just covered up).

 

Something going on...

[Chrisgb]

4 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

 

Tailpipes are all weird. Maybe a mule for something else. 

 

Kind of weird, they removed the "Evos" name, which sits below the Ford badge on the tailgate, but they left the Changan Ford badge (just covered up).

 

Something going on...

Reading the comments below the article, one noted that this is probably an emissions test vehicle.

[ausrutherford]

14 hours ago, Chrisgb said:

Reading the comments below the article, one noted that this is probably an emissions test vehicle.

You would have to wonder why they are doing emissions testing here then. 

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, ausrutherford said:

You would have to wonder why they are doing emissions testing here then. 

Valid point, the evos is already on sale in other markets. So they're either testing a new powertrain, or an existing powertrain with substantial changes. Or testing it to make sure it meets US emissions standards if they plan to sell it here. ?

[tbone]

My question is why wouldn’t Ford want to sell this here?  IMO  Ford is short on product to sell. I see styling in this similar to the MachE so perhaps concern of too similar of a look in the same product space?  I do think “Made in China” is a liability, so I think that would need to be reconciled somehow, but it is a nice looking vehicle that would have appeal here.  

[akirby]

2 hours ago, tbone said:

My question is why wouldn’t Ford want to sell this here?  IMO  Ford is short on product to sell.

Where would they build it and which current or future vehicle would you cancel?  It’s not whether it could be built and sold at a profit.  The question is whether it’s a better investment of factory space than something else.

[tbone]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Where would they build it and which current or future vehicle would you cancel?  It’s not whether it could be built and sold at a profit.  The question is whether it’s a better investment of factory space than something else.

Those are all good questions that I don’t have the answers to, but assuming it wouldn’t cost much to get it certified for the US, the engineering has been paid for and it is currently in production so it shouldn’t be difficult to figure out the necessary margin. Production capacity is an obvious issue, assuming it isn’t imported.  What is currently coming down the road that will consume the space.   I know there is talk about some new EVs coming soon, but what else? Could Oakville have made room for it?  Doesn’t seem like the EVs will fill it. Isn’t there available space at one of the Michigan plants such as Flatrock?  Obviously, there are choices that would have to be made, but I still stand by Ford needs more products, especially with the retirement of the Edge. 

[DeluxeStang]

5 hours ago, tbone said:

Those are all good questions that I don’t have the answers to, but assuming it wouldn’t cost much to get it certified for the US, the engineering has been paid for and it is currently in production so it shouldn’t be difficult to figure out the necessary margin. Production capacity is an obvious issue, assuming it isn’t imported.  What is currently coming down the road that will consume the space.   I know there is talk about some new EVs coming soon, but what else? Could Oakville have made room for it?  Doesn’t seem like the EVs will fill it. Isn’t there available space at one of the Michigan plants such as Flatrock?  Obviously, there are choices that would have to be made, but I still stand by Ford needs more products, especially with the retirement of the Edge. 

I agree, I don't think Ford needed 6 car models/varients outside of the mustang. These of course being the focus hatchback/sedan, fiesta sedan/hatch, fusion and tarus. But I do believe they should have at least one sedan. 

 

Maybe with a few variants, hatchback version, longer wheelbase to move into midsized segments, that sort of thing. Yes, SUVs are popular, yes, they're more practical and capable. But automotive products are passion products who's purchases are heavily influenced by subjective preferences. There are tons of people who just prefer the looks of a sedan, or the sportier driving dynamics. Ford needs to cater to these customers. 

 

There isn't enough demand for sedans to justify 2-3 different models. But there is enough demand to justify one. 

 

 

[rmc523]

FWIW, here's some info BORG posted at GMI about Lincoln's upcoming lineup - if what he's saying is true, apparently we are going to get the chinese Nautilus after all, as well as a "stopgap" Mach-E based Lincoln.

 

 

 

Quote

This is what I know so far about Lincoln's near-term products.

Lincoln Nautilus: The new C2-based Chinese-built version is to be imported by the end of this year. It will be powered by a 2.0L EB and a 2.0L EcoBoost PowerSplit eCVT hybrid. The new interior is very dramatically tech-forward and signals their next-generation design which will be seen in the 2025 Navigator as well. Designed in Dearborn, built in China with a Chinese-customized version.

Lincoln Aviator: 2024 refresh with a new fascia and tweaked dashboard to accommodate the new 13.2" Sync 4 screen and Lincoln Active Glide. The PHEV GT will be discontinued. Very mild MCA, but it brings Aviator up to speed and gives it the new fascia shared with the all-new Nautilus and other Chinese Lincolns (Corsair got a lesser version).

Lincoln Navigator: 2025 is All-New ICE, I don't know much more than that but it's only about year away from being revealed. We should start seeing prototypes any day now.

Lincoln GE1 EV (Q1 2025): 2-Row EV Based on GE1 (Mach E), this will be another Chinese built product to be imported to the US. This will be made at the Chinese Mach E plant which uses a different battery supplier. Presumably this is more affordable than building the Lincoln alongside the Mach E in Mexico, which will be maxed out. This will coincide with an update to the Mach E which will give it improvements like a Heat Pump, no 800V charging coming to this architecture. I wonder if this plan changes at all with the tax incentive program finally being ironed out, which would disadvantage this car.

Lincoln GE 2 EV (Q1 2025): 3-Row EV based on Ford's Gen-2 EV architecture which is specifically designed to have a flat battery pack for 3-row utilities. Commonly referred to as the "Aviator EV". Built in Oakville, CA.

Beyond that, Ford will have a new affordable EV architecture around 2028 to replace their C2 products at the LAP (Escape/Corsair) but I don't see a Lincoln on the schedule yet, just a Ford Small Pickup and Utility. No sign of the TE1 Navigator either. I suspect Corsair GT might be dropped once they have their two EVs

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by rmc523

[akirby]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The issue is that it will most likely never scale up to the point to be able to replace gasoline production from petrochemicals. If this was a viable replacement (the Germans used it in WW2 for crying out loud) why wouldn't it be the focus or the path forward? 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/03/27/synthetic-fuels-wont-save-the-planet-so-dont-say-they-could/?sh=29e5b57169a4

 

People said the same thing about batteries awhile back.  And nobody here is suggesting it as a replacement for BEVs just as a future option especially for special ICE vehicles.  Formulas and manufacturing methods and cost will change over time.

[akirby]

If true this is probably the “most strategically important BEV” that Farley mentioned.

 

Quote

Beyond that, Ford will have a new affordable EV architecture around 2028 to replace their C2 products at the LAP (Escape/Corsair) but I don't see a Lincoln on the schedule yet, just a Ford Small Pickup and Utility. 

This may also be why they’re not looking to build next Gen Nautilus at LAP alongside Corsair.

[akirby]

Not happy with Chinese Lincoln’s but it’s better than nothing.  We would have gotten a hybrid had it been available.

[rmc523]

27 minutes ago, akirby said:

Not happy with Chinese Lincoln’s but it’s better than nothing.  We would have gotten a hybrid had it been available.

 

Agreed.  But it's their best-selling segment (or at least goes back and forth with Corsair).  To not have an entrant in that segment for a few years is just stupid.

[rperez817]

36 minutes ago, akirby said:

Formulas and manufacturing methods and cost will change over time.

 

That's correct, but the underlying chemistry and physics of synfuels and their production processes will not. 

 

bzcat mentioned in another thread regarding hydrogen for FCEV "You can't make Hydrogen without consuming more energy than the resulting output. It's a fools errant. Hydrogen will have limited application but it will never be widely deployed for vehicle transportation. Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to retake 10th grade physics and chemistry classes." 

 

Same issue applies to synfuels.

Edited February 13, 2023 by rperez817

[akirby]

34 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Agreed.  But it's their best-selling segment (or at least goes back and forth with Corsair).  To not have an entrant in that segment for a few years is just stupid.

Especially when the new one shares a platform with Corsair and Escape and uses the same engine.

[Oac98]

On 1/5/2023 at 12:33 PM, silvrsvt said:

 

The 2019 vehicles where the VW MEB platform vehicles that where assumed to go there and will only be for sale in the EU now. 

 

Of course the plan has changed since then.

 

The new BEVS won't start production for another 24 months-December 2024 from what I saw in an article and Edge is end of production in January 2024. The Nautilus ends this year?

I guess Oakville will be down for at least 6-9 months to retool with pilot runs of the new BEV in the fall/winter of 2024 

I believe what you’re saying is exactly how it’s gonna play out. Word is the Nautilus is gonna be done Jan 28th 2024 very unconfirmed someone in the plant said someone in management told them that. That’s better than Oct 27, 2023 that’s forsure. The contracts are coming ford can change up the planning again so who knows. I just hope we get some income protections for this retool period when these contract negotiations start. 

[tbone]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

Not happy with Chinese Lincoln’s but it’s better than nothing.  We would have gotten a hybrid had it been available.

Me either, but as you had mentioned previously, production capacity is questionable, and this could be a stop gap measure until NA produced models are available.   
 

I will not be a customer for a Chinese sourced vehicle, however there are plenty of people who could care less.  

[Gurgeh]

18 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Agreed.  But it's their best-selling segment (or at least goes back and forth with Corsair).  To not have an entrant in that segment for a few years is just stupid.

 

Huh, so if this is accurate and if you are like me and interested in a 2-row mid-sized Lincoln, there will soon be two options, both made in China. The ICE one comes without the V6 and the BEV one is based on Gen1 technology (even while Lincoln brings out another product with Gen2 technology), with no North American-built Gen2 2-row mid-sized BEVs on tap until around 2028, if then. This leaves someone like me with the following options: 1) order a 2023 Nautilus before they go away (I had wanted to wait for something new, as my 2019 Nautilus still works fine), 2) go BEV and 3-row (bigger than I want with a row I don't need) when the Gen2 product comes out in a couple or three years (I should be able to do overnight charging by then), 3) run the wheels off my 2019 Nautilus and wait to see what, if anything, comes with Gen2 2-row offerings in 2028 (I've never kept a vehicle that long, and would prefer not to, though the odds seem decent that the mid-sized 2-row Gen1 Mach E-based China product will then get swapped for a NA-built Gen2 product), or 4) look at other makes, including Ford's Mach-E, but more likely MB or Genesis -- or even, shudder, GM (I have no problem doing this, but had hoped to stay with Lincoln as I really like my local Lincoln-only dealer, and I would hate breaking the vow I made to myself to never buy another GM vehicle after my tax money went to bailing them out).

 

Not ideal, but as others have noted leaving such a glaring gap in Lincoln's line-up for several years would be asking for trouble. And as others have also noted, many won't have a problem buying a China-made vehicle. I'm just not one of them.

[akirby]

50 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

 

Huh, so if this is accurate and if you are like me and interested in a 2-row mid-sized Lincoln, there will soon be two options, both made in China. The ICE one comes without the V6 and the BEV one is based on Gen1 technology (even while Lincoln brings out another product with Gen2 technology), with no North American-built Gen2 2-row mid-sized BEVs on tap until around 2028, if then. This leaves someone like me with the following options: 1) order a 2023 Nautilus before they go away (I had wanted to wait for something new, as my 2019 Nautilus still works fine), 2) go BEV and 3-row (bigger than I want with a row I don't need) when the Gen2 product comes out in a couple or three years (I should be able to do overnight charging by then), 3) run the wheels off my 2019 Nautilus and wait to see what, if anything, comes with Gen2 2-row offerings in 2028 (I've never kept a vehicle that long, and would prefer not to, though the odds seem decent that the mid-sized 2-row Gen1 Mach E-based China product will then get swapped for a NA-built Gen2 product), or 4) look at other makes, including Ford's Mach-E, but more likely MB or Genesis -- or even, shudder, GM (I have no problem doing this, but had hoped to stay with Lincoln as I really like my local Lincoln-only dealer, and I would hate breaking the vow I made to myself to never buy another GM vehicle after my tax money went to bailing them out).

 

Not ideal, but as others have noted leaving such a glaring gap in Lincoln's line-up for several years would be asking for trouble. And as others have also noted, many won't have a problem buying a China-made vehicle. I'm just not one of them.

Order a 23 and run the wheels off of it.  That’s what we’re doing with our 22.  Sync 4 and the new interior is a huge upgrade.  

[jasonj80]

6 hours ago, akirby said:

Order a 23 and run the wheels off of it.  That’s what we’re doing with our 22.  Sync 4 and the new interior is a huge upgrade.  

Unfortunately going to be a long wait if you want the 360 Cameras, as they currently are on a scheduling hold (along with the front camera on the Edge) the F-150 just lost the bed camera but did gain back the heated steering wheel.