akirby Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 3 hours ago, rmc523 said: Well. That could also mean they have X amount of allocation, and have already split it between F-150/Transit and that's what was available for Mach E after accounting for all the models. That's the way I read it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 hours ago, rmc523 said: This was the compliance car: Imagine trying to get in that backseat. Look at the door cutline! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) A new survey shows customer preferences split evenly between the MME and Y. But for very different reasons: "Those who chose the Mach E said they picked it because of Ford’s dealer network and the Mach E’s styling, along with concerns about Tesla’s future. Those who chose the Model Y chose it because of the car’s expected performance and Tesla’s supercharger network, along with a general dislike of the Ford brand. Both groups also cited their trust/preference for their respective brands and expected reliability of the cars in question." To me, weighing the difference between having the Supercharger network vs. having an actual after sales network able to service and repair is quite valid. I found most interesting, but not unexpected, the intangible of half of them looking down their nose at Ford and the other half not wanting a Tesla. https://electrek.co/2019/11/21/survey-consumers-split-between-ford-mustang-mach-e-tesla-model-y/ Edited November 21, 2019 by Gurgeh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 32 minutes ago, Gurgeh said: A new survey shows customer preferences split evenly between the MME and Y. But for very different reasons: "Those who chose the Mach E said they picked it because of Ford’s dealer network and the Mach E’s styling, along with concerns about Tesla’s future. Those who chose the Model Y chose it because of the car’s expected performance and Tesla’s supercharger network, along with a general dislike of the Ford brand. Both groups also cited their trust/preference for their respective brands and expected reliability of the cars in question." To me, weighing the difference between having the Supercharger network vs. having an actual after sales network able to service and repair is quite valid. I found most interesting, but not unexpected, the intangible of half of them looking down their nose at Ford and the other half not wanting a Tesla. https://electrek.co/2019/11/21/survey-consumers-split-between-ford-mustang-mach-e-tesla-model-y/ The Ford brand doesn't scream elitist. Tesla still has the rich cache for now. Until the rich and influencers move on to the next big thing once all the plebes have Tesla's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 58 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: The Ford brand doesn't scream elitist. Tesla still has the rich cache for now. Until the rich and influencers move on to the next big thing once all the plebes have Tesla's. Exactly. Tesla is trendy and people who like that like the brand. It is one reason why BMW sales in the U.S. have gone down just as Tesla sales have gone up. There are many folks who would never want to drive a BMW, no matter how good the cars are, because they don't like the brand's elitist image. These folks will prefer the MME over the Y. There are also a lot of EV buyers who won't care about the brand image and will just be shopping between the two vehicles and deciding on them on their merits. Trying to figure out that now is a little premature, however, as release of the two vehicles is most of a year away and we'll get a better sense of how close the comparison is only once people have a chance to get in and test drive the production models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said: The Ford brand doesn't scream elitist. Tesla still has the rich cache for now. Until the rich and influencers move on to the next big thing once all the plebes have Tesla's. to some, Andre Agassi..."Image is everything"....when it comes to cars, it doesn't matter if the cars a POS, as long as it cossets ego.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 22 minutes ago, Deanh said: to some, Andre Agassi..."Image is everything"....when it comes to cars, it doesn't matter if the cars a POS, as long as it cossets ego.... It’s not just ego. A lot of people view EVs as a gadget. A smartphone with wheels. Mach-E will appeal to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 8 hours ago, rmc523 said: This was the compliance car: ...Actually, I like that too. This is what the Focus should have looked like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Gurgeh said: A new survey shows customer preferences split evenly between the MME and Y. But for very different reasons: "Those who chose the Mach E said they picked it because of Ford’s dealer network and the Mach E’s styling, along with concerns about Tesla’s future. Those who chose the Model Y chose it because of the car’s expected performance and Tesla’s supercharger network, along with a general dislike of the Ford brand. Both groups also cited their trust/preference for their respective brands and expected reliability of the cars in question." To me, weighing the difference between having the Supercharger network vs. having an actual after sales network able to service and repair is quite valid. I found most interesting, but not unexpected, the intangible of half of them looking down their nose at Ford and the other half not wanting a Tesla. https://electrek.co/2019/11/21/survey-consumers-split-between-ford-mustang-mach-e-tesla-model-y/ Thanks for sharing this electrek article Gurgeh sir. Very interesting indeed. I agree with electrek that more important than customer preferences for Mustang Mach E versus Tesla Model Y is any automaker designing desirable BEVs that get owners of ICE vehicles to join the EV revolution as soon as possible. Electrek calls it the "same team" mentality. On that count, Mustang Mach E and Tesla Model Y are both winners. Quote "This is how we measure how much good EVs are doing – not by how popular they are with the already-loyal, but by how likely they are to get gas guzzlers off the road so maybe we can all stop choking to death on the fossil fuel pollution which kills nearly 9 million people worldwide per year. We at Electrek take a “same team” mentality when it comes to electric cars. It’s good to compare the various cars out there, but we need to always remember that eliminating fossil fuels is the target here, not trashing other EV brands (except, of course, if they’re obviously not taking things seriously). So good on Ford and Tesla for both announcing desirable cars that consumers are interested in. Now let’s get some rubber on the road, so we can get some exhaust off the road." Edited November 22, 2019 by rperez817 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) People who don't care about cars tend to buy Teslas and their limited understanding of the industry is a constant frustration to me. I'm actually a Tesla fan, but I recognize the fandom as extremely off-putting to the point it's like a religious or political ideology, completely imbalanced and irrational. Ford certainly has the biggest reputation shift to make and the Mach E seems to have started it. Unfortunately, Ford does NOT have a good reputation for smooth launches anymore than Tesla does, but you expect better from Ford as an experienced "legacy" automaker. There is so much new tech here that Ford has never shown great competency in before (software UX and OTA updating, autonomous tech, BEV tech). The Mach E is still an experiment, it's going to take Ford much longer to figure this out than Day 1 of Mach E. So at this point I would certainly trust the Model Y more than Mach E. Personally I would still recommend the Model Y over the Mach E for at least the first 2 years. There are just way more unknown quantities with the Ford at this stage, but we already know what we're getting with Model Y. Ford has a huge struggle ahead of them, if they don't deliver on all these promises, it's going to be a huge problem. Edited November 22, 2019 by Assimilator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, Assimilator said: People who don't care about cars tend to buy Teslas and their limited understanding of the industry is a constant frustration to me. I'm actually a Tesla fan, but I recognize the fandom as extremely off-putting to the point it's like a religious or political ideology, completely imbalanced and irrational. Ford certainly has the biggest reputation shift to make and the Mach E seems to have started it. Unfortunately, Ford does NOT have a good reputation for smooth launches anymore than Tesla does, but you expect better from Ford as an experienced "legacy" automaker. There is so much new tech here that Ford has never shown great competency in before (software UX and OTA updating, autonomous tech, BEV tech). The Mach E is still an experiment, it's going to take Ford much longer to figure this out than Day 1 of Mach E. So at this point I would certainly trust the Model Y more than Mach E. Personally I would still recommend the Model Y over the Mach E for at least the first 2 years. There are just way more unknown quantities with the Ford at this stage, but we already know what we're getting with Model Y. Ford has a huge struggle ahead of them, if they don't deliver on all these promises, it's going to be a huge problem. While Ford has had their problems, I’ve never seen them build cars in tents or hire independent body shops to fix their mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: hire independent body shops to fix their mistakes. Nope, they just ship them to Flat Rock...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Assimilator said: People who don't care about cars tend to buy Teslas In my experience, the opposite is true. Over the 4 months I've owned a Model S, I've met a lot of other Tesla car owners both in person and online. An amazingly high percentage work as engineers, scientists, and technicians, in many industries including automotive. Even the Tesla owners I know who are not in those occupations for the most part are very knowledgeable about how their cars work. I spoke to some of the techs who work at the Tesla service centers in Plano and NW Dallas, and they said the same thing about Tesla owners. BEV owners in general probably know more details of their cars' operation than ICE car owners in general know about theirs. Would be interesting to do a large scale survey on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: While Ford has had their problems, I’ve never seen them build cars in tents True, Ford uses the tents instead to store parts for vehicles that got messed up during assembly at plants like Chicago and need to be repaired. Edited November 22, 2019 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: True, Ford uses the tents instead to store parts for vehicles that got messed up during assembly at plants like Chicago and need to be repaired. To be fair, that's because since Ford uses just in time delivery, there's not much spare room in the warehouse sections of most plants for all of those spare parts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/19/2019 at 5:09 AM, ice-capades said: My general comments on the recent Mustang Mach-E unveiling after watching the live steaming event and Ford's support to Dealers since. I understand and accept that the vehicle is branded as a new Mustang BEV model and Ford's direct entry as the first major manufacturer to challenge Tesla. There are Mustang design aspects included (stylized taillights, rear haunches, side sculpting) but I have a hard time seeing where placing a Pony logo on the front end resembles anything close to a Mustang. The front fascia doesn't resemble anything close to the Mustang. The Motor1.com renderings at least look like a Mustang. Ford has provided more marketing information to the public than they have to their own Dealers including video running footage that is normally available only to Dealers and those agencies authorized to access that information, etc. The limited materials available require the images available to link to Ford's Mustang Mach-E page which takes visitors from the dealership's websites hurting dealership site analytics. Dealerships are receiving inquiries from customers but Dealers can't provide any information other than what is available to the public at the Ford.com website. There is no 2021 Mustang Mach-E Order Guide available and nothing available via the WBDO (Web Based Dealer Order) system. My General Manager, after attending several Ford meetings recently, is telling me that we won't see anything at the dealership level for several months at least. Ford is blowing this opportunity... leaving Dealers without the ability to configure Mach-E vehicles for customers that are contacting Dealers directly. To be continued... Comments on the Mustang Mach-E continued... Our Ford Zone Manager told our GM yesterday that Ford had 5,000 reservations for the 2021 Mustang Mach-E. There have been BOF members that have posted images with higher reservation numbers so it's uncertain as to how many actual reservations have been made. Regardless of Ford's ability to obtain the necessary number of battery packs necessary, it appears that the Mach-E commitment so far regarding the reservation numbers has been a bust. Ford is the first major manufacturer to challenge Tesla and there's only 5,000 reservations so far. Not encouraging. If the initial results were good Ford would be sending out press releases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, ice-capades said: Comments on the Mustang Mach-E continued... Our Ford Zone Manager told our GM yesterday that Ford had 5,000 reservations for the 2021 Mustang Mach-E. There have been BOF members that have posted images with higher reservation numbers so it's uncertain as to how many actual reservations have been made. Regardless of Ford's ability to obtain the necessary number of battery packs necessary, it appears that the Mach-E commitment so far regarding the reservation numbers has been a bust. Ford is the first major manufacturer to challenge Tesla and there's only 5,000 reservations so far. Not encouraging. If the initial results were good Ford would be sending out press releases. This guy claims to have counted 14,000 reservations as of yesterday, but I'm not clear on his methodology. https://seekingalpha.com/article/4308040-ford-gets-14000-reservations-mustang-mach-e-electric-suv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 I’ve been seeing reports of 15k also. Another thing to keep in mind is the way Tesla and the way Ford does business is completely different-Ford has an actual dealer network and I bet a lot of people are waiting to do an actual test drive first. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 15000 reservations (out of a total of 50000 available) in 4 days for a car that you can't drive and won't be available for quite a while? That's pretty impressive in my book. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 10 hours ago, ice-capades said: Ford is the first major manufacturer to challenge Tesla and there's only 5,000 reservations so far. Not encouraging. If the initial results were good Ford would be sending out press releases. 20 minutes ago, fordmantpw said: 15000 reservations (out of a total of 50000 available) in 4 days for a car that you can't drive and won't be available for quite a while? That's pretty impressive in my book. Ford's media site now prominently displays the link for Mustang Mach-E reservations. Wouldn't be surprised if a new press release comes out within the next 2 weeks with Ford's own estimate of the number of reservations made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 26 minutes ago, fordmantpw said: 15000 reservations (out of a total of 50000 available) in 4 days for a car that you can't drive and won't be available for quite a while? That's pretty impressive in my book. Especially if you consider there are no cult followers involved. I'm guessing most prospective buyers want to drive one first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, akirby said: Especially if you consider there are no cult followers involved. I'm guessing most prospective buyers want to drive one first. Exactly! My wife's comment: "If I could drive it first, then maybe. I can't buy something I've never driven." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 https://insideevs.com/news/383886/tesla-cybertruck-reservation-count/ take it with a grain of salt but this is saying the Tesla truck could have over 200,000 reservations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Even the internet comments which are usually gushing over anything Elon does is hating on it. I find it hard to believe they have 200K reservations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passis Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 I'm not used to the market, but the Cybertruck price does not sound bad... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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