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Ford Mustang Mach E World Premiere Nov 17 9PM EST


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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But in January of the same year-they where saying this:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2017/01/03/here-details-fords-electric-vehicle-plan/96109758/

 

An all-new fully electric small SUV, coming by 2020, engineered to deliver an estimated range of at least 300 miles, to be built at the Flat Rock plant and sold in North America, Europe and Asia.-Mustang Mach E

An autonomous vehicle designed for commercial ride hailing or ride sharing, starting in North America. The hybrid vehicle will debut in 2021 and will be built at the Flat Rock plant.-Who knows

A hybrid version of the F-150 pickup available by 2020, sold in North America and the Middle East and built at Ford’s Dearborn Truck Plant.

A hybrid version of the iconic Mustang will be built at the Flat Rock Plant. It will debut in 2020 and will be available in North America to start.

A Transit Custom plug-in hybrid van available in 2019 in Europe.

Two new, pursuit-rated hybrid police vehicles. One of the two new hybrid police vehicles will be built in Chicago-new Explorer

 

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Yes and by December of that year, it all changed again.

The Autonomous Transits were transferred to hermosillo and Mach E to Cuautitlan

and after that, the two mid sized BEvs were announced for Flat Rock...

and now rumors that Ford thought about closing Flat Rock before approving NG Mustang.

I think there's real issues with upgrading FRAP for new products like the BEVs and wouldn't

be surprised if another announcement comes out next year...

 

See my previous post. They did a complete 180 on everything planned for Flat Rock. Did a 180 on that earlier this year only to flip again to the point of wanting to close the plant when the new UAW contract was being negotiated. Thank god for whatever workforce is left there for the union but I still think that plant is on borrowed time. 

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22 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

It was Mark Fields that initially announced it would be built in Flat Rock. Since then Hackett and co. have been hell bent on undoing everything Fields did (or in some cases didn't do). 

Context.

I know that, he was quoting Re Field's January '17 announcement, and wondering where it was going if not FRAP.

My link was December 2017 changes by Hackett that confirmed it moving to Mexico.

 

i think there's been a conflating / confusion by some of Mach E going to Mexico and mid sized BEVs going to FRAP  that may or may not be happening now.....good old Ford changing plans again??

 

I wonder if Fields screwed up cancelling San Louis Potosi,  giving Ford less freedom to shuffle products.

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

I wonder if Fields screwed up cancelling San Louis Potosi,  giving Ford less freedom to shuffle products.

 

I doubt it with this new high ATP at lower volume for the sake of profit margin approach they’re taking. We now have both Mexico plants, Louisville, FRAP and Oakville that all have room to add shift(s).

 

Edit: I guess you could add MAP to that list too but being a BOF plant severely limits options for us, plus it's TBD what kind of volume Bronco (and NG Ranger) can deliver. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo
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https://jalopnik.com/watch-our-first-ride-along-in-the-2021-ford-mustang-mac-1839929071

 

jalopnik has a video of the inside while driving at night on a test course. I found it interesting that the fast mode was called “Stampede” in the pre production software but the ford rep made sure to point out that it would be called “unbridled” in the final version. Wtf is ford thinking? Stampede was the perfect name. Unbridled just sounds awkward. Hopefully they change it back.


here’s a disappointing quote from the article:

 

“While I will say that getting a ride in a prototype is fun in itself, I didn’t find the Mach-E’s driving characteristics particularly exciting. The car didn’t feel that quick during the hard launch, nor did it feel like it handled the slalom with sports-car precision. It felt soft, I thought.”

 

you also can hear the fake noise that the car produces.

Edited by T-dubz
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27 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

https://jalopnik.com/watch-our-first-ride-along-in-the-2021-ford-mustang-mac-1839929071

 

jalopnik has a video of the inside while driving at night on a test course. I found it interesting that the fast mode was called “Stampede” in the pre production software but the ford rep made sure to point out that it would be called “unbridled” in the final version. Wtf is ford thinking? Stampede was the perfect name. Unbridled just sounds awkward. Hopefully they change it back.


here’s a disappointing quote from the article:

 

“While I will say that getting a ride in a prototype is fun in itself, I didn’t find the Mach-E’s driving characteristics particularly exciting. The car didn’t feel that quick during the hard launch, nor did it feel like it handled the slalom with sports-car precision. It felt soft, I thought.”

 

you also can hear the fake noise that the car produces.

 

From the comments:

Perhaps they’re saving the Stampede driving mode for Cars and Coffee exits only...

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I ran thru the numbers tonight on lectric cmax mach....she wont drive unless fully charged..its not safe...so its plugged in every dam night till it reads full...about 125+ additional clams for lectric cost compared to about 50clams cost in gas per month...what is needed is double the range in the cheapest plastic box mach they sell now ..she knows range on gasser and wants same...so until somebody can figure out how to pack more juice in the battery its not economically feasible for me to even consider the dam thing....gassers here for long time to come in my garage..

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47 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Mach E has AC drive motors, if I recall correctly, Tesla saved money with the 3 by giving it a hybrid design DC drive motor.

You may wish to research why if in fact tesla uses dc motors...dc biggest advantage is they are far more efficient than ac...the only reason power company uses ac transmission is there is virtually no line loss (advantage long distance transmission/cheaper to produce) from power plant to your door...power company could care less what you do with that power inside your house...you pay for it..dc really has far greater advantages in power application....dc series motors are used on trains...why not use what is proven....id be asking why ford went with ac motors if thats the case...probably because of price point and where they imported them from...hope like hell they are not using aluminum windings...

Edited by snooter
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Up until Tesla 3, all previous Teslas  exclusively used AC induction motors,

the front motor on the 3 is still AC but the rear is brushless DC hybrid.

 

On reflection, a Brushless DC is not really a DC motor, it has to be supplied

with something resembling three-phase power at an appropriate frequency.

It's really closer to being an AC motor than a pure DC motor.

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33 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Up until Tesla 3, all previous Teslas  exclusively used AC induction motors,

the front motor on the 3 is still AC but the rear is brushless DC hybrid.

 

On reflection, a Brushless DC is not really a DC motor, it has to be supplied

with something resembling three-phase power at an appropriate frequency.

It's really closer to being an AC motor than a pure DC motor.

Thanks...makes sense they would be using that type of motor

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11 minutes ago, snooter said:

dc series motors are used on trains

 

Not so much anymore. DC locomotives require an alternator to convert the AC power coming from the generator to DC power the traction motors use. The first AC powered locomotives came out in 1993 (the EMD SD70MAC and GE AC4400CW respectively) and were immediately adopted (especially the GE units) by all of the class 1 railroads in North America, the notable exception being Norfolk Southern who shunned AC powered locomotives completely until they inherited some from the Conrail split. They have since purchased over 150 of the new SD70ACe units from EMD and 166 GE ES44AC units, as well as continuing to purchase new DC units. 

 

Today the majority of new locomotives purchased or leased are AC powered due to the ease of maintenance (no  alternator to deal with) and more efficient power delivery to the traction motors. 

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I still think they are using (dc series motors) as the traction motors...they will run on ac power and are aka universal motors...whole point here is i am trying to figure out basically what advatages the ford lectric system has over the tesla system..kinda like the vhs vs beta debacle and i dont want to buy the losers lectric archetecture....and i would like to know can fords lectric pull anything and if thats a no go

 

Edited by snooter
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My general comments on the recent Mustang Mach-E unveiling after watching the live steaming event and Ford's support to Dealers since. 

 

I understand and accept that the vehicle is branded as a new Mustang BEV model and Ford's direct entry as the first major manufacturer to challenge Tesla. There are Mustang design aspects included (stylized taillights, rear haunches, side sculpting) but I have a hard time seeing where placing a Pony logo on the front end resembles anything close to a Mustang. The front fascia doesn't resemble anything close to the Mustang. The Motor1.com renderings at least look like a Mustang.

 

Ford has provided more marketing information to the public than they have to their own Dealers including video running footage that is normally available only to Dealers and those agencies authorized to access that information, etc. The limited materials available require the images available to link to Ford's Mustang Mach-E page which takes visitors from the dealership's websites hurting dealership site analytics.

 

Dealerships are receiving inquiries from customers but Dealers can't provide any information other than what is available to the public at the Ford.com website. There is no 2021 Mustang Mach-E Order Guide available and nothing available via the WBDO (Web Based Dealer Order) system. My General Manager, after attending several Ford meetings recently, is telling me that we won't see anything at the dealership level for several months at least. 

 

Ford is blowing this opportunity... leaving Dealers without the ability to configure Mach-E vehicles for customers that are contacting Dealers directly. 

 

To be continued...

 

 

25-future-trucks-and-suvs.jpg

274c9518-ford-mustang-crossover-render-3.jpg

Edited by ice-capades
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12 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

I have a hard time believing even if the number of preorders demands it, they won't increase that number. This is Ford, not Tesla. 

 

...and its not like Tesla stopped pre-orders when they hit how many they thought they could build in a year.  Ford will accept all the pre-orders ($$) that are submitted. Interest-free money with no strings attached?  Please!

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6 hours ago, snooter said:

You may wish to research why if in fact tesla uses dc motors...dc biggest advantage is they are far more efficient than ac...the only reason power company uses ac transmission is there is virtually no line loss (advantage long distance transmission/cheaper to produce) from power plant to your door...power company could care less what you do with that power inside your house...you pay for it..dc really has far greater advantages in power application....dc series motors are used on trains...why not use what is proven....id be asking why ford went with ac motors if thats the case...probably because of price point and where they imported them from...hope like hell they are not using aluminum windings...


Not entirely true, High Voltage DC is the most efficient way to send power long distances, just has a higher cost to do so at the end points of the system, but it is more efficient in power transmission. HVDC loses about 3% at 1000km where as HVAC is going to lose about 30% because you transferring both active and reactive power. 

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9 hours ago, ice-capades said:

I understand and accept that the vehicle is branded as a new Mustang BEV model and Ford's direct entry as the first major manufacturer to challenge Tesla. There are Mustang design aspects included (stylized taillights, rear haunches, side sculpting) but I have a hard time seeing where placing a Pony logo on the front end resembles anything close to a Mustang. The front fascia doesn't resemble anything close to the Mustang. 

 

Why would a battery powered car (that doesn't need cooling from the front) and is a taller vehicle look like a Mustang? It looks like a Mustang CUV that is battery powered!

https://jalopnik.com/lets-take-a-deeper-look-at-the-design-of-the-2021-ford-1839924916

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, 351cid said:

This brings up another series of thoughts on the total electric vehicles.

 

I believe I read that the charging is equal to running your oven. Right now, there isn't a problem since BEV's are just beginning to surface. My concern for the future (and I realize the sky isn't falling) is the power grid handling a couple hundred thousand of these things charging on a hot summer night when everyone's a/c unit is cranking. To my knowledge and my brother in-law (who works in middle management with a major power company), there aren't any real plans from the power companies in place currently to deal with that kind of demand.

 

22 hours ago, 351cid said:

No offense bud, but I'll take my brother in-law's concerns over your explaination.

 

His words were "It's a real problem for the near future developing for power supply and as of yet, no one has a viable solution that will be implemented in the short term. Power companies react almost as quickly as the governments do."

 

As you mention, power companies react slowly, so if they don't have any current plans, they're really behind the curve.  I also work at a power company, and we have plans going out 10 years+ for adding changing the generation for our power.  We have a couple coal plants that will be shut down (end of life), but are adding wind, solar, battery storage, and looking at possibly upping the power of our nuclear plant.  According to our upper management, we don't have a need for major generation capacity in the foreseeable future, even with the addition of electric cars.  That question was specifically asked at one of our recent company-wide meetings.  We are looking forward to the addition of electric cars, and we are actually working with the state to add charging stations along the main corridors across the state. We also offer incentives to employees for the purchase of electric vehicles.

 

I used to be concerned about the status of the grid and generation, but in our area, it's not a major issue.  California, though, is another thing...

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3 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

I used to be concerned about the status of the grid and generation, but in our area, it's not a major issue.  California, though, is another thing...

 

I think Cali's issues aren't exactly power generation, but maintenance of the areas around the power lines-i.e. cutting trees down around power lines and stuff like that.  

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