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blwnsmoke

Mach e prototype on the streets

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8 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

There was no presumption in my post. No one has ever reported that Ford has two EV platform under development. You are the only one saying that.

 

C2 was a standardized platform matrix for vehicles with an ICE on top of front axle. There are certain fixed hard points like the placement of firewall in relation to the front axle for engineering reasons. For example, if the distance is the same, you can use the same steering rack and subframe module for all the vehicles. You can of course make an EV out of C2 but you are still married to those hard points laid out - which is not a very efficient way to make an EV. You certainly don't need all that room in front of the windshield for ICE. If you are changing all the hard point on C2 for EV, it is no longer a C2. That was my point. The MACH E prototype (and the mules before that) clearly showed very different proportions and hard points compare to C2.

 

Also I didn't say Model E platform is a clean sheet design. Ford did. EV platform was outlined as one of the 5 platforms that Ford will deploy going forward:

1. C2 for transverse mounted ICE

2. CD6 for longitude mounted ICE

3. Unibody platform for vans

4. BOF platform for trucks

5. Platform for EV

 

Here is Hau Thai-Tang talking about the EV platform

 

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/ford-platforms-hau-thai-tang-interview/

 

Again

https://autoweek.com/article/car-news/ford-will-build-all-vehicles-five-platforms

 

And agin

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ford-platform-sharing-plan/

 

 

The most recent of those 3 interviews is from January of this year. Since then there has been the joint venture with VW and the investment in Rivian, both of which Ford has said they would be using technology from, most notably the MEB platform from VW. 

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2 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

The most recent of those 3 interviews is from January of this year. Since then there has been the joint venture with VW and the investment in Rivian, both of which Ford has said they would be using technology from, most notably the MEB platform from VW. 

 

That's not related to the point we are discussing which is MACH E is using a Ford developed EV platform and not a C2 vehicle.

 

Ford is going to use MEB in Europe mainly because VW is willing to foot the bill. And we don't know yet what Ford is planning to do with the Rivian platform.

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9 minutes ago, msm859 said:

It is kind of like Apple with their proprietary plugs. I understand it causes issues and a single plug would be ideal, but the reality is if you look at both plugs the Tesla plug is in fact the more elegant and streamlined.  It they had used a Tesla plug the new Aviator could have probably had the plug under the Aviator emblem so you wouldn't have that extra door underneath.  Cleaner design.  However, adopting the same plug would probably not be necessary to use their superchargers.  They could just use an adaptor.


The reason that Tesla and Apple went with their own chargers had to deal with where technology was when they introduced the product. The industry hadn't hit the required hardware standard and they ended up developing their own to accomplish what they wanted to do. The EU for instance is probably going to require that Tesla use the industry standard now that there is one, just as it did for Apple when USB was the standard. Apple now is slowly moving to the USB-C standard and I suspect Tesla may end up using to the SAE standard for Level 3 and converting their chargers over to Level 3 as the years progress, this gives others the ability to pay and use their chargers making a new revenue stream. The reason Tesla didn't want to support Level 2/1 at their chargers is that it didn't want slow charging vehicles clogging up super charger stations. A Tesla can recharge to 260-300miles in under an Hour, a regular plug hybrid could be 4x longer for 20-40 miles of range at Level 2 or 1 charging. 

Level 3 chargers will get all EV's to an even lower time than that. Ford's EV will support Level 3 charging giving it fast recharge times at compatible chargers. Fast Level 3 charges are what will make electric cars mainstream. 

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3 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

That's not related to the point we are discussing which is MACH E is using a Ford developed EV platform and not a C2 vehicle.

(respectfully, what you're saying is right but there's way more to it,  below is not in the public arena )

Mach E was started under Mark Fields in 2016 and pre-dates those decisions on dedicated platforms

it is unique and very different to the two mid sized BEVs going to Flat Rock - those are on the new BEV platform.

Quote

Ford is going to use MEB in Europe mainly because VW is willing to foot the bill. And we don't know yet what Ford is planning to do with the Rivian platform.

All these events are well after Mach E was begun in 2016 and the two mid sized BEVs in 2017.

 

I know you're passionate on all of this but please keep an open mind.....

Edited by jpd80

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In all of this, it is safe to say that as Ford gets into BEV design and production, it is gaining knowledge and real experience at an exponential rate. So its BEV plans started back in 2016 are now well and truly superseded by later developments done either internally or by agreement with external partners and suppliers. A lot of the changes behind the scenes are being filtered out of official presentations but the thrust of development is undeniable.

Edited by jpd80

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12 hours ago, jpd80 said:

 

Mach E was started under Mark Fields in 2016 and pre-dates those decisions on dedicated platforms

it is unique and very different to the two mid sized BEVs going to Flat Rock - those are on the new BEV platform.

All these events are well after Mach E was begun in 2016 and the two mid sized BEVs in 2017.

 

So is Mach E a skateboard chassis, or something different? 

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6 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

So is Mach E a skateboard chassis, or something different? 

Well nothing much has been said publicly about the technical specs of it yet, but it is wisely assumed to be a skateboard chassis and scalable to work with multiple segments. 

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3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Well nothing much has been said publicly about the technical specs of it yet, but it is wisely assumed to be a skateboard chassis and scalable to work with multiple segments. 

 

To your point, that's what has me confused about what I *think* JPD is saying. If indeed it's a skateboard and can be scaled up/down, then it would make sense that the larger BEV's are using a scaled version of that chassis. But - that doesn't seem to be what JPD is saying. So I'm confused. 

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5 minutes ago, barney9014 said:

Sounds like Generation 1 is the Mach and Generation 2 is the new larger BEV.  Even though nothing has been sold. 

 

I think that’s exactly it.

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Fields was a big supporter of hybrids and PHEVs but not so much BEVs

Without saying too much, the Genesis of Mach E and those objectives are very different from where Ford is heading today with its plans and on that, Ford intentionally allows people to get confused over “architecture” and “platforms” - Ranger and F150 will never be on one scalable platform. But are covered by one architecture grouping much like the old large vehicle group .. and so it is for BEVs, it’s the things they can and do share that’s important, not the chassis/body hardpoints.

 

Edited by jpd80

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1 hour ago, barney9014 said:

Sounds like Generation 1 is the Mach and Generation 2 is the new larger BEV.  Even though nothing has been sold. 

This makes sense 

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23 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Fields was a big supporter of hybrids and PHEVs but not so much BEVs

Without saying too much, the Genesis of Mach E and those objectives are very different from where Ford is heading today with its plans and on that, Ford intentionally allows people to get confused over “architecture” and “platforms” - Ranger and F150 will never be on one scalable platform. But are covered by one architecture grouping much like the old large vehicle group .. and so it is for BEVs, it’s the things they can and do share that’s important, not the chassis/body hardpoints.

 

 

To that point, there was an interview done within the last year or so with Hau  Thai-Tang about how certain systems are becoming more modular (a/c systems being one he specifically mentioned) rather than individually tailored to specific vehicles. I'll see if I can find it on one of my breaks tonight. 

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Ive seen at least 10 of these prototypes in person before camo. It looks pretty good IMO. The interior is a very small cluster and a large infotainment screen with a contextual knob embedded in the infotainment screen, only like 2 hard buttons and a similar rotary gear shifter as the GT500. The rear lights are similar to mustang that they have 3  bars but with a stripe of light running through/across the bars.  It will have a running horse logo on the front and on the steering wheel the difference between the mustang one is it will have a different pattern then the aluminum look.  

 

Wish i can share more without leaking to much but stay tuned in November for reveal.

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1 hour ago, AGR said:

Motor1 has a new rendering:

https://www.motor1.com/news/367393/fords-mustang-suv-concept/

Hopefully, that's not too accurate; there's no need for a tall nose like that on an EV.

I think this is one of Ford’s “near cars” that many would actually call a car......

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6 hours ago, averagengineer said:

 It will have a running horse logo on the front and on the steering wheel the difference between the mustang one is it will have a different pattern then the aluminum look.  

 

 

I know I'm beating a dead horse (geddit?)......but this makes me sick to my stomach. If it has to have a horse, make it a very different looking pony!  :(  

 

(as you're clearly a man in the know, anything you can share on the next gen Mustang.......as in the real Mustang, would be appreciated :)  )

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7 hours ago, averagengineer said:

Ive seen at least 10 of these prototypes in person before camo. It looks pretty good IMO. The interior is a very small cluster and a large infotainment screen with a contextual knob embedded in the infotainment screen, only like 2 hard buttons and a similar rotary gear shifter as the GT500. The rear lights are similar to mustang that they have 3  bars but with a stripe of light running through/across the bars.  It will have a running horse logo on the front and on the steering wheel the difference between the mustang one is it will have a different pattern then the aluminum look.  

 

Wish i can share more without leaking to much but stay tuned in November for reveal.

 

Interesting about your description. I do have a question about the running horse logo: is it exactly the same style of the Mustang or a different variation of the running horse? I ask because you said it will have a different pattern than the aluminum look. Not sure what you mean by aluminum look... the way the Mustang's horse logo is shiny like it's aluminum-made, you mean? As with @Twin Turbo below, I don't like the idea of the exact same Mustang horse being re-used. At least make a variation of it like the Bronco has a galloping horse kicking dirt. I think something like a horse leaping with front feet slightly up in the air as if it's about to leap over something. As if the vehicle is leaping into the future of electrification while still having the soul of an ICE Mustang intact. But with different horse logo and different name of course. That way the Mustang uses the same fast-running Derby horse/wild open-field horse and the electric vehicle (Mach-E) has the leaping forward logo as I mentioned/envisioned. I have no problem with headlight/grille and taillights being very similar to the Mustang to give the resemblance. Like how Porsche did the Panamera as a 4-door front engine/rear drive without actually making a 4-door 911 coupe but yet retaining the soul and look of the 911. But I understand you don't want to reveal too much prior to November's reveal though.

 

37 minutes ago, Twin Turbo said:

 

I know I'm beating a dead horse (geddit?)......but this makes me sick to my stomach. If it has to have a horse, make it a very different looking pony!  :(  

 

(as you're clearly a man in the know, anything you can share on the next gen Mustang.......as in the real Mustang, would be appreciated :)  )

 

Yeah I'm not happy with the same Mustang logo being used if that's the case. Also hoping the Mustang name isn't being used as part of the vehicle's name as well. I am also curious about the next generation (S650 for 2021??) actual Mustang myself if @averagengineer knows and can say.

 

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An article today has it looking like this:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/exclusive-the-future-of-ford-according-to-its-bosses/ar-AAGpFTs?ocid=spartanntp

 

If you don't want to read the article:

 

 

fordmache.jpg

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

I don't understand why it's such a huge deal if it's somehow related to Mustang.

 

  • 4 door Charger
  • Mid-engine Corvette
  • Corvette with no round taillights
  • New Beetle begin FWD and not RE
  • Thunderbird having a Lincoln LS interior

The purists have mock anger then get over it really quick.

 

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How many years from now will the actual Mustang be built as a BEV?  Do you build a parallel performance BEV ahead of time to be sold beside the Mustang ICE?  How do you make that transition?

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12 hours ago, averagengineer said:

The interior is a very small cluster and a large infotainment screen with a contextual knob embedded in the infotainment screen, only like 2 hard buttons and a similar rotary gear shifter as the GT500. 

 

This seems strange to me. It wasn’t too long ago that ford was using all the touch sensitive buttons in its vehicles. Nobody liked those and they had to add back in physical buttons.

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23 minutes ago, barney9014 said:

How many years from now will the actual Mustang be built as a BEV?  Do you build a parallel performance BEV ahead of time to be sold beside the Mustang ICE?  How do you make that transition?

 

I think this is the first step to moving Mustang to BEV, especially for the performance models.

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