DSPF150 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Last contract the union and the company came up with the bullshit of giving us half of OUR profit sharing after signing the contract some people thought that was a bonus. That’s our money anyway nothing extra. The union should never agree to that. Then some members bitched when they only got half of their profit sharing in the spring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayshift Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 AND Keep in mind, over time, a 3% performance bonus equates to much less money than a 3% raise. If you have less that 20 years then this trick will cost you thousands of dollars over the course of your career.. Many competing industries received raises all through the last recession and we took concessions year after year. It's time to take a stand and fight for a raise every year? Don't fall for the raise every other year with performance bonuses in between shell game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayshift Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 AND Please no new tiers. We were told last time they were going to eliminate "tiers and we ended up with several new levels or tiers from the last contract. United we stand, divided we fall and they have managed to chop us into many pieces. They want us to think us (legacy) against them (in progression and temps). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 On 8/27/2019 at 6:42 AM, DSPF150 said: Last contract the union and the company came up with the bullshit of giving us half of OUR profit sharing after signing the contract some people thought that was a bonus. That’s our money anyway nothing extra. The union should never agree to that. Then some members bitched when they only got half of their profit sharing in the spring If we 1500 of your profit sharing was half you need to come to work more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 4 hours ago, caustic said: If we 1500 of your profit sharing was half you need to come to work more. To be fair, I work at MAP and have never once in my 6 years of employment gotten close to the average profit sharing check, and I do come to work every day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2016RS Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Realize that the 2nd Tier employee's are close to being the majority of the work force. If you were the Company at the Bargaining Table what would you do to get a contract accepted? Top 3 thing's I believe will happen. This how I see it playing out. #1 Give 2nd Tier a very healthy raise. #2 More out of pocket for health care across the board. #3 A huge signing bonus. A healthy increase in 2nd Tier wages along with a large singing bonus will be voted on and pass strongly. Too often I've seen the legacy worker's pick on the 2nd Tier employee's about how much less they make for doing the same work. This Contract will pass because the 2nd Tier are fed up with the Status Quo and I don't blame them one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal50 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 When the union did away with equal pay for equal work they screwed themselves and the membership for head count and dues ( self serving Vs looking long term at whats best for the WORKERS). Paying off union officials helps seal the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 19 hours ago, 2016RS said: Realize that the 2nd Tier employee's are close to being the majority of the work force. If you were the Company at the Bargaining Table what would you do to get a contract accepted? Top 3 thing's I believe will happen. This how I see it playing out. #1 Give 2nd Tier a very healthy raise. #2 More out of pocket for health care across the board. #3 A huge signing bonus. A healthy increase in 2nd Tier wages along with a large singing bonus will be voted on and pass strongly. Too often I've seen the legacy worker's pick on the 2nd Tier employee's about how much less they make for doing the same work. This Contract will pass because the 2nd Tier are fed up with the Status Quo and I don't blame them one bit. and the retirees and future retirees will not see a dime.The retirees have been paying for the last 3 contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 19 hours ago, 2016RS said: Realize that the 2nd Tier employee's are close to being the majority of the work force. If you were the Company at the Bargaining Table what would you do to get a contract accepted? Top 3 thing's I believe will happen. This how I see it playing out. #1 Give 2nd Tier a very healthy raise. #2 More out of pocket for health care across the board. #3 A huge signing bonus. A healthy increase in 2nd Tier wages along with a large singing bonus will be voted on and pass strongly. Too often I've seen the legacy worker's pick on the 2nd Tier employee's about how much less they make for doing the same work. This Contract will pass because the 2nd Tier are fed up with the Status Quo and I don't blame them one bit. I'm a 2nd Tier worker and that would be a huge no from me and many I know. 8 years needs to be shortened to 6 years. Temp language needs to offer some form of fixed time before becoming a seniority employee. If medical, dental, and optical need to be left as is. Tesphe language regarding company contributions needs to be made into a 100% match of my contribution. Not this 6.4% of 40 hours crap. 1 dollar per hour up to 40 instead of insurance needs to be bumped up to 2 dollars. Those are the only things that will get a yes from me and a lot of others I've talked to. If only half of that is met then we can walk out and hold signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 hours ago, caustic said: Temp language needs to offer some form of fixed time before becoming a seniority employee. That language exists now, but there's a big loophole in the language that allows the company to turn a STS employee to TPT right before the 90 days is up and the time is no longer valid. If/when they get converted back to STS the time starts over again. That happened a lot at Flat Rock for years until they got rid of all of their TPT/STS employees when they went down to 1 shift a few months ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster B Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 6 hours ago, caustic said: I'm a 2nd Tier worker and that would be a huge no from me and many I know. 8 years needs to be shortened to 6 years. Temp language needs to offer some form of fixed time before becoming a seniority employee. If medical, dental, and optical need to be left as is. Tesphe language regarding company contributions needs to be made into a 100% match of my contribution. Not this 6.4% of 40 hours crap. 1 dollar per hour up to 40 instead of insurance needs to be bumped up to 2 dollars. Those are the only things that will get a yes from me and a lot of others I've talked to. If only half of that is met then we can walk out and hold signs. Do you even know what it means to “walk out and hold signs.”? I don’t, and I don’t what to find out. But I do know it means you no longer have health insurance(you fall under some blanket UAW insurance that doesn’t cover accidental), it means you are ”technically” not an employee of Ford Motor Co. Think about that before you talk about your demands. “100% match” What?!?! All I what to see is new investment in EVERY plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 14 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: That language exists now, but there's a big loophole in the language that allows the company to turn a STS employee to TPT right before the 90 days is up and the time is no longer valid. If/when they get converted back to STS the time starts over again. That happened a lot at Flat Rock for years until they got rid of all of their TPT/STS employees when they went down to 1 shift a few months ago. You're wrong. The prior contract had it set at 52 weeks of steady work weeks without a layout(not counting shutdown and christmas) would grant a worker seniority. Regardless of classification(LTS, STS). You need to re-read your contract. There has been nothing about 90 days since prior to 2007. Appendix K page 210. Start there and read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 10 hours ago, Grandmaster B said: Do you even know what it means to “walk out and hold signs.”? I don’t, and I don’t what to find out. But I do know it means you no longer have health insurance(you fall under some blanket UAW insurance that doesn’t cover accidental), it means you are ”technically” not an employee of Ford Motor Co. Think about that before you talk about your demands. “100% match” What?!?! All I what to see is new investment in EVERY plant. Investment into plants? You're joking? See this line of thinking is killing us. KCAP and DTP are locked in with the truck. They are building more with less and those aren't moving. KTP has 3 vehicles all of which are new models this year or last. CAP has two new models. MAP has new product. LAP might. You really think inside 4 years those will magically just vanish? Only plants that need commitments are supply plants like Engine/Trans/Axle. Large assembly plants do not within the next 4 years. There is a time to ask for product commitment for most assembly plants this isn't one of those times. Yes 100% match. It isn't ground breaking and companies have been matching 6% fully since the late 80's. An 8% match of my weekly gross is nothing for Ford to give up. You're afraid to strike? How do you think you got those benefits you enjoy now? People before you long ago made it happen. A strike should be a last resort but if need be let's go. Don't be a coward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, caustic said: CAP has two new models. If you ask a certain poster here about that he'll insist CAP is closing in December because to him rumor=truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, caustic said: You're wrong. The prior contract had it set at 52 weeks of steady work weeks without a layout(not counting shutdown and christmas) would grant a worker seniority. Regardless of classification(LTS, STS). You need to re-read your contract. There has been nothing about 90 days since prior to 2007. Appendix K page 210. Start there and read. Regardless of which one of us is right it's a rather large and very easily exploitable loophole that needs to be closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster B Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, caustic said: Investment into plants? You're joking? See this line of thinking is killing us. KCAP and DTP are locked in with the truck. They are building more with less and those aren't moving. KTP has 3 vehicles all of which are new models this year or last. CAP has two new models. MAP has new product. LAP might. You really think inside 4 years those will magically just vanish? Only plants that need commitments are supply plants like Engine/Trans/Axle. Large assembly plants do not within the next 4 years. There is a time to ask for product commitment for most assembly plants this isn't one of those times. Yes 100% match. It isn't ground breaking and companies have been matching 6% fully since the late 80's. An 8% match of my weekly gross is nothing for Ford to give up. You're afraid to strike? How do you think you got those benefits you enjoy now? People before you long ago made it happen. A strike should be a last resort but if need be let's go. Don't be a coward. Your a fool, and you only think you know what your talking about. “Long ago” they had nothing to lose by going on strike. Edited August 31, 2019 by Grandmaster B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 6 hours ago, caustic said: You're wrong. The prior contract had it set at 52 weeks of steady work weeks without a layout(not counting shutdown and christmas) would grant a worker seniority. Regardless of classification(LTS, STS). You need to re-read your contract. There has been nothing about 90 days since prior to 2007. Appendix K page 210. Start there and read. Appendix K ii. If there are no existing TPT employees at the requesting facility, the Company may hire, rehire or reinstate STS employees for a period of up to one year. If a STS employee works for a continuous period of more than one year, they will gain seniority as an In-Progression employee with a seniority date equal to the most recent hire, rehire or reinstatement date as an STS employee. However, if the most recent hire, rehire or reinstatement date as an STS employee was prior to November 23, 2015, the STS employee will establish a seniority date of November 23, 2015. The loop hole is there it never left. Just got a much longer period of uncertainty for an STS employees. Fussy is correct when referring to the old school TPT or LTS trick...and it`s connection to the STS trick. Good Morning it`s your 89th day of employment, good bye. Ring Ring... Good Morning, you can report to work as a TPT. Now the STS employee gets the "Good Morning its your 181st or 203rd or 364th day, good bye", then the "Ring - Ring" treatment. The language is clear to the company lawyers and open for anyone's interpretation. But the company went from an 89 day cycle to a 364 day cycle for reducing cost. But... the company would never do something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 8 hours ago, Decker said: Appendix K ii. If there are no existing TPT employees at the requesting facility, the Company may hire, rehire or reinstate STS employees for a period of up to one year. If a STS employee works for a continuous period of more than one year, they will gain seniority as an In-Progression employee with a seniority date equal to the most recent hire, rehire or reinstatement date as an STS employee. However, if the most recent hire, rehire or reinstatement date as an STS employee was prior to November 23, 2015, the STS employee will establish a seniority date of November 23, 2015. The loop hole is there it never left. Just got a much longer period of uncertainty for an STS employees. Fussy is correct when referring to the old school TPT or LTS trick...and it`s connection to the STS trick. Good Morning it`s your 89th day of employment, good bye. Ring Ring... Good Morning, you can report to work as a TPT. Now the STS employee gets the "Good Morning its your 181st or 203rd or 364th day, good bye", then the "Ring - Ring" treatment. The language is clear to the company lawyers and open for anyone's interpretation. But the company went from an 89 day cycle to a 364 day cycle for reducing cost. But... the company would never do something like that? I get what you're saying but when is the last time an 89 dayer was around? The 89 day stuff has been gone since 07 or 09. So therefore he's incorrect. There is no loophole. The language is the language. A loophole is something vaguley written. There is none of that. It's spelled out pretty clear they can keep temps as long as they want. Now there is no time period even mentioned. That needs to change. 52 weeks should be put back into place. And the limit of two temp classifications such as STS and LTS and a worker may not hold each classification more than once. That would keep a temp period at a maximum of 2 years. Better than the 4-5 we have going on currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 14 hours ago, Grandmaster B said: Your a fool, and you only think you know what your talking about. “Long ago” they had nothing to lose by going on strike. You can sit there and act smart all you like. Your and you're are not interchangeable. You don't go asking for something you already have, that's wasteful. That is how you short yourself elsewhere in the contract. I understand you may not like reality but your dislike doesn't change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 15 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: If you ask a certain poster here about that he'll insist CAP is closing in December because to him rumor=truth Yeah I saw that guy. I bet he's a riot at a party. First it was one shift going away now it's months from closing? Every plant has their chicken little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2016RS Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 On 8/30/2019 at 10:07 AM, Fatso said: and the retirees and future retirees will not see a dime.The retirees have been paying for the last 3 contracts. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster B Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 hours ago, caustic said: You can sit there and act smart all you like. Your and you're are not interchangeable. You don't go asking for something you already have, that's wasteful. That is how you short yourself elsewhere in the contract. I understand you may not like reality but your dislike doesn't change it. You still...don’t know anything...rookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 20 hours ago, Grandmaster B said: You still...don’t know anything...rookie. I know this. I won't be hanging around 10 years too long because I'm "waiting for next contract" like some of you dinosaurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster B Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 28 minutes ago, caustic said: I know this. I won't be hanging around 10 years too long because I'm "waiting for next contract" like some of you dinosaurs. Yes you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ididntdoit Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 I just gotta laugh most of these kids were in grade school when I started, they don't listen to experienced workers they think they know it all. I'm on year 24, been through plant closures, transferred, seen shifts go from 3 to 1 back to 3, seen workers with 5yr get laid off a week before thanksgiving, seen decades of UAW shady politics, nepotism and harassment. And these kids most not even 10 yrs in yet look at me like I don't know what I'm talking about when I see the signs of shifts ending possible product moving to another plant because the workers at the current plant are incompetent and have poor work ethics. Don't be so damn naive, if you have 2 of your biggest profitable products being half ass built in a 100yr old plant that's had a decade worth of recalls over the past year and now the current product having to be repaired right after it leaves the line at another plant you can pretty much guarantee some major changes will take place and not in a good way. I would be completely shocked if CAP is running 3 shifts if any at all. They've learned no matter how much you put in how many you hire you can not produce a quality product with a poorly managed, lack of work ethics, and corrupted local union ran plant. That is why I'd like to offer my 24yr of service for a severance package and pension buyout so that these low seniority know it alls can have their broken plant and corrupted union all to themselves and make it a win win for us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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