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Lincoln Again Asking Dealers to Become Standalone


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https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2019/07/12/volkswagen-ford-argo-ai-partnership-autonomous-vehicles/

 

I see these AI Fusion Hybrids navigating through the complicated and congested streets in and around Pittsburgh every day... Ubers autonomous devision is based here also, but while they were here first I rarely see their cars anymore.

Edited by CoolScoop
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12 hours ago, mustangchief said:

Hi, I'm almost nobody.  I have an Audi Q5 and BMW X3  They are our daily drivers, the wife has the Q5 and I the X3.  Our first Lincoln is on order.  I know of two others doing the same thing.  The Aviator will be our travel car.  Tonight, a new Nautilus was across the intersection, my wife said what is that?  I told her, she said I like that.  I said that is the MKx in new clothes.  She said, it looks much better.  hmmm, two years ago the MKx was an old folks car, now it is good looking.  Guess a face lift can do wonders.  

 

Congratulations on your Lincoln Aviator order mustangchief sir! Good to hear that Lincoln has increased appeal for you and a couple folks you know, who all own BMW or Audi cars. 

 

How has the Lincoln dealership and vehicle ordering experience been for you so far? Is it at least as good as your and your wife's experience with BMW and Audi?

Edited by rperez817
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13 hours ago, mustangchief said:

Hi, I'm almost nobody.  I have an Audi Q5 and BMW X3  They are our daily drivers, the wife has the Q5 and I the X3.  Our first Lincoln is on order.  I know of two others doing the same thing.  The Aviator will be our travel car.  Tonight, a new Nautilus was across the intersection, my wife said what is that?  I told her, she said I like that.  I said that is the MKx in new clothes.  She said, it looks much better.  hmmm, two years ago the MKx was an old folks car, now it is good looking.  Guess a face lift can do wonders.  

Me too. I traded in a 2016 Audi Q5 S-Line for a 2019 Black Label Nautilus (and had canceled a Range Rover Velar factory order to get the Nautilus).

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1 hour ago, Gurgeh said:

Me too. I traded in a 2016 Audi Q5 S-Line for a 2019 Black Label Nautilus (and had canceled a Range Rover Velar factory order to get the Nautilus).

Most people can't understand the concept of buying a Lincoln over a European or Japanese luxury brand, most people (including me) haven't driven a Lincoln... but I ordered my Aviator sight unseen.  Since the GTs aren't in production yet I've had plenty of time to second guess my decision but the thought never crosses my mind.  I can't wait to drive it off the lot and have no doubt that I'll be saying I've driven a Lincoln and it's the best car I ever owned.

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On 8/31/2019 at 10:02 AM, rperez817 said:

 

Congratulations on your Lincoln Aviator order mustangchief sir! Good to hear that Lincoln has increased appeal for you and a couple folks you know, who all own BMW or Audi cars. 

 

How has the Lincoln dealership and vehicle ordering experience been for you so far? Is it at least as good as your and your wife's experience with BMW and Audi?

The Lincoln Dealer has been great, it is part of a Ford Dealership, the Lincoln Manager is kicked to a Lincoln only area and is pretty much ostracized by the Ford Sales force, which is good.  He and the Lincoln sales folks are more of a concierge for Lincoln.  We were looking at Navigators last year and it was the same how can I help you?   He runs the Lincoln sales force similar to the Bimmer dealer.  I just told him what I wanted and he got me an allocation from the region.  Their dealership hasn't received any GT allocation yet.  He also texts me updates on what's happening in the Lincoln arena.  The weekend I had the Aviator, a close friend had a stroke and they discovered 5 tumors all around his brain.  He told me it was OK to use the Aviator to shuttle his family between his house and the hospital even though it was going to add hundreds of miles to the odometer.  This was the reason my review and pics were nowhere near what I had planned.  He texted after his surgery and continues to check up on my friend. 

 

The Audi dealership I am starting to dislike, I was there last week for an oil change and they wanted to do my 20K service with only 12K on the odometer.  I politely declined this $300 service, and they acted like I just assassinated their cat.  I had a question about the new Audi app, and they just completely blew me off.  It was completely opposite my last service.   No warm cookies either☹️  

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20 hours ago, mustangchief said:

The Lincoln Dealer has been great, it is part of a Ford Dealership, the Lincoln Manager is kicked to a Lincoln only area and is pretty much ostracized by the Ford Sales force, which is good.  He and the Lincoln sales folks are more of a concierge for Lincoln.  We were looking at Navigators last year and it was the same how can I help you?   He runs the Lincoln sales force similar to the Bimmer dealer.  I just told him what I wanted and he got me an allocation from the region.  Their dealership hasn't received any GT allocation yet.  He also texts me updates on what's happening in the Lincoln arena.  The weekend I had the Aviator, a close friend had a stroke and they discovered 5 tumors all around his brain.  He told me it was OK to use the Aviator to shuttle his family between his house and the hospital even though it was going to add hundreds of miles to the odometer.  This was the reason my review and pics were nowhere near what I had planned.  He texted after his surgery and continues to check up on my friend. 

 

The Audi dealership I am starting to dislike, I was there last week for an oil change and they wanted to do my 20K service with only 12K on the odometer.  I politely declined this $300 service, and they acted like I just assassinated their cat.  I had a question about the new Audi app, and they just completely blew me off.  It was completely opposite my last service.   No warm cookies either☹️  

 

This is the area where Lincoln can make some serious headway.  Having dealers who are pleasant to work with and treat you like an adult..

I hate it when the rep says, "I have to go with you."
Then tells you where you need to drive.
Walked out of two Ford dealerships with that kind of treatment.

I'm hoping in around 2022 or so, I'll be looking at the Lincolns again.  Have to keep my current Volvo S60 for several years.  As long as it behaves.

 

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  • 4 months later...

The dealer that I just ought my Nautilus BL from  is a huge Ford Dealer., they are building a stand alone very big Lincoln building and Ford building. Quite impressive.

 

The sales force is still both Ford/ Lincoln and act more like Ford sales people, nothing special in fact, nice guys, but it was not the up scale treatment you might get at Lexus or Mercedes, current housing was in temp trailers. the lot was a mess due to construction, I get tha,t but I could have bought an $25,000 Ford and the treatment would have been the same.

 

I bought my 2016 BL MKX from a stand alone dealer,  nothing impressive, the finance guy got mad because would not buy any extra crap, then asked me for a tip twice, I just spent close to $60,000 and he wanted a tip for what typing up a bunch of forms, get real. Salesman hand me the key fobs and sent me on my way with out any explanation or going over the vehicle, same treatment at their Ford store and do not complain about anything they will tell you get lost in a ghostly manner and I have bought a lot of Lincoln's from them and a few Fords.

 

My take is that if Lincoln wants us baby boomers to buy the vehicles they need to stay on these dealers to give the customer the royal treatment and not act like a used car lot or a plain Jane dealer there is no difference a far as I can tell, lets face it some dealers do not get it still.

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Strangebird that is CRAZY! I've bought a lot of cars in my life and have never had that kind of treatment - I don't want something they don't press, and to ask for a tip? That's insane! That brings back memories of flying out of Vegas a few years ago - there were tip jars on all the counter people - REALLY? And then if you didn't tip them they would look at you like you were an *$$hole. And the bus/transport vans were even worse, if you didn't tip the bus driver you would get verbally dissed. Your story is disturbing. Ford should know about a dealer acting like that. That is not cool. Totally agree on all your comments

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To me, it makes no difference that Lincoln is a part of Ford. Cadillac sells a ton of Escalades being under the GM/Chevy umbrella. 

 

The stand alone Lincoln dealer in Westmont, suburb of Chicago, is a piece if junk, outdated, small, under perpetual construction shack of a place. Not only for those reasons but the schiesher sales team, I drove 40 minutes away to Fox Ford/Lincoln in Chicago vs. the 10 minutes to the other one for the right price. 

 

Talk about bad strategy. The Westmont dealer not only wouldn't go under invoice but offered a price $2k over invoice. They lose. The Black Label services, besides car washes, they could bill back to Lincoln the next 4 years, will now go to Fox. 

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  • 1 month later...

Been around the dealership world for a long time.  The least profitable part of any dealership is new car sales.  Luxury brands like Lincoln don't move enough to make any money.  They rely on the used car lot (high margins) and the service department (super high margins),  If Lincoln demands separate showrooms but allows joint service then the "real" experience will be close to the same.  IMO, standalone Lincoln dealers will only work in decent sized urban areas and they will have to step up their game compared to these anecdotes.  My last several buying experiences have all been GM (none of the Cadillac) and they have all been very pleasant.  The lone exception was the most recent attempt at a Buick/GMC dealer that tried to play games and I walked out.  

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To me...the real question is how much longer will Americans keep buying any luxury vehicles? My grand kids don't care about cars. They ride buses, commuter rail, and take Uber. They don't understand my generations love of the automobile. They just want to pay for the part they use. 

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8 minutes ago, Ralph Greene said:

To me...the real question is how much longer will Americans keep buying any luxury vehicles? My grand kids don't care about cars. They ride buses, commuter rail, and take Uber. They don't understand my generations love of the automobile. They just want to pay for the part they use. 

 

When we grew up a car was the only way to get to your friends and one of the few ways to entertain yourself.   Nowadays folks are connected to each other 24/7 from the time they can use a smartphone or laptop.  

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2 hours ago, Ralph Greene said:

To me...the real question is how much longer will Americans keep buying any luxury vehicles? My grand kids don't care about cars. They ride buses, commuter rail, and take Uber. They don't understand my generations love of the automobile. They just want to pay for the part they use. 

 

Good points Ralph Greene sir. You are correct, the traditional car ownership/leasing model is on its way out in the next couple decades. This applies to both mainstream and luxury vehicles. Subscription services can provide consumers with the ability to "pay for the part they use". Current examples include Fair, which acquired Ford Credit's Canvas program last year, and Care by Volvo.

 

Also, Waymo's self driving service offering will offer a premium tier using luxury vehicles designed in collaboration with Jaguar Land Rover. 

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23 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Good points Ralph Greene sir. You are correct, the traditional car ownership/leasing model is on its way out in the next couple decades. This applies to both mainstream and luxury vehicles. Subscription services can provide consumers with the ability to "pay for the part they use". Current examples include Fair, which acquired Ford Credit's Canvas program last year, and Care by Volvo.

 

Also, Waymo's self driving service offering will offer a premium tier using luxury vehicles designed in collaboration with Jaguar Land Rover. 


Subscription services are far too expensive for mainstream use,

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For lots of folks....their vehicle is an important part of their life. Couldn't get along without one, and for some....it's part of who they are (or wish to be seen as that way). 

 

And some of us have too many vehicles around. Don't really use them much. But just in case, we keep them around.  I have a 8 year old Ford Edge with 65,000 miles. Perfect condition. Freshly waxed. Garaged 100% of the time. Interior and exterior paint looks just like the day I drove it home from dealership. (all this care doesn't help value much). Not one thing you could fix or spend money on. It's lost at least $25,,000 (or more) value over these 8 years. The $40,000 I spent would have made another $12,000-15,000 or so if not spent on car. That's over $400 per month depreciation plus opportunity cost. Also bought nice new Michelins at 60,000 (original tires were great), plus repaired the dash controller, and regular service....also serviced trans and cooling system. Only thing not done is it still has original plugs and brakes are still good. Insurance probably averages $60-70/month. That brings costs to around $500/month over this 8 year period.....close to what a lease for 3 new ones w/b. Funny how that works out. And I wouldn't be near as picky about maintaining a lease vehicle.

 

I could make about 20-25  UBER trips per month for that. And get some garage space back for projects. And still have a CRV and 2008 Mercury Milan at home to use if necessary. or lease a big old vehicle for vacations. That's my point. For some people, we don't need to own vehicles like we did in past. 

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3 hours ago, Ralph Greene said:

To me...the real question is how much longer will Americans keep buying any luxury vehicles? My grand kids don't care about cars. They ride buses, commuter rail, and take Uber. They don't understand my generations love of the automobile. They just want to pay for the part they use. 

Ownership isn't cheap. No monthly payments. No insurance payments. No maintenance bills. No registration renewal fees.

 

 

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13 hours ago, akirby said:


Subscription services are far too expensive for mainstream use,

 

Yes sir. Currently those services are mostly in the luxury category, targeted toward rich people. Lincoln's previous subscription program with Canvas (before Canvas got sold to Fair) involved 1 - 3 year old used cars, which made pricing a little lower but still expensive. https://help.drivecanvas.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001762947-What-is-Lincoln-Canvas-

 

As shared, subscription based mobility services in general become more widespread, there should be more affordable offerings in the mainstream category.

 

Edited by rperez817
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On 3/9/2020 at 5:10 PM, Ralph Greene said:

I could make about 20-25  UBER trips per month for that. And get some garage space back for projects. And still have a CRV and 2008 Mercury Milan at home to use if necessary. or lease a big old vehicle for vacations. That's my point. For some people, we don't need to own vehicles like we did in past. 

I hear you but there isn't a better time to point out that when you're in your own car, you're in your own space. When you're in a Uber, Lyft, bus, whatever - you're in the hundred people before you Corona corral. No thanks. I'll pay the money and have the satisfaction I'm escaping some moron that never washes their hands or sneezes all over the vehicle. ?

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/31/2019 at 1:06 PM, CoolScoop said:

Most people can't understand the concept of buying a Lincoln over a European or Japanese luxury brand, most people (including me) haven't driven a Lincoln... but I ordered my Aviator sight unseen.  Since the GTs aren't in production yet I've had plenty of time to second guess my decision but the thought never crosses my mind.  I can't wait to drive it off the lot and have no doubt that I'll be saying I've driven a Lincoln and it's the best car I ever owned.

When I posted this last August I had no idea at the time that I wouldn't be driving it off the lot until March.  But I can finally confirm the last sentence by saying from experience.... I've driven a Lincoln and it's the best car I ever owned!!!

Edited by CoolScoop
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2 hours ago, CoolScoop said:

When I posted this last August I had no idea at the time that I wouldn't be driving it off the lot until March.  But I can finally confirm the last sentence by saying from experience.... I've driven a Lincoln and it's the best car I ever owned!!!


Congrats!  Make sure you post some driving impressions and a pic. 

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On 3/27/2020 at 11:44 AM, Black Label said:

Yes, look forward to some pics from you. 

Here's one for now, I'll take more if we have a sunny day this weekend.  I haven't been able to take any accurate pictures of the medium slate interior... the shade of gray comes out too light like you'll see online.  So the pics don't capture how luxurious it looks, especially with the GTs engine turned aluminium trim.

20200308_193239.jpg

Edited by CoolScoop
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