Doug DeMuro Aviator review

[MY93SHO]

 

[jcartwright99]

That was a very good review in my opinion. Fair and  pretty accurate. I still think the sweet spot will be a fairly loaded reserve. BL gets to a price where a lot of people want a specific badge on the hood.

Edited August 28, 2019 by jcartwright99

[fuzzymoomoo]

38 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

That was a very good review in my opinion. Fair and  pretty accurate. I still think the sweet spot will be a fairly loaded reserve. BL gets to a price where a lot of people want a specific badge on the hood.

Doug usually does a pretty good job of being fair. I generally like his reviews. 

[msm859]

1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said:

That was a very good review in my opinion. Fair and  pretty accurate. I still think the sweet spot will be a fairly loaded reserve. BL gets to a price where a lot of people want a specific badge on the hood.

 

I would say the bigger problem with BL is the qualified dealerships are far away for many which makes some of the "benefits" illusory.

 

[T hawker]

Agree, I thought the review was fair.  I don't believe we have a BL dealer in New Mexico, looking at San Diego bc of on hand inventory (Nautilus).  I like the BL not bc of "benefits" but because of interior color choice.  Just tired of the same old black, gray and tan and all of the hard plastics.  That's why I love the Aviator, but don't think my elderly mother can get into it easily bc of step in height, (based on old Explorer) need to check out it's "kneeling" height.  

 

If anyone can give me a kneeling height, ground level to top of front passenger door sill  and seat cushion I would appreciate it.  

 

Thanks,

Steve

[Gurgeh]

7 hours ago, T hawker said:

Agree, I thought the review was fair.  I don't believe we have a BL dealer in New Mexico, looking at San Diego bc of on hand inventory (Nautilus).  I like the BL not bc of "benefits" but because of interior color choice.  Just tired of the same old black, gray and tan and all of the hard plastics.  That's why I love the Aviator, but don't think my elderly mother can get into it easily bc of step in height, (based on old Explorer) need to check out it's "kneeling" height.  

 

If anyone can give me a kneeling height, ground level to top of front passenger door sill  and seat cushion I would appreciate it.  

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

Steve, that might be solved with the air glide suspension option, which automatically lowers the vehicle as you approach for easier entry. 

[rmc523]

9 hours ago, T hawker said:

Agree, I thought the review was fair.  I don't believe we have a BL dealer in New Mexico, looking at San Diego bc of on hand inventory (Nautilus).  I like the BL not bc of "benefits" but because of interior color choice.  Just tired of the same old black, gray and tan and all of the hard plastics.  That's why I love the Aviator, but don't think my elderly mother can get into it easily bc of step in height, (based on old Explorer) need to check out it's "kneeling" height.  

 

If anyone can give me a kneeling height, ground level to top of front passenger door sill  and seat cushion I would appreciate it.  

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

It gets pretty low.  Almost to where it looks like the suspension is broken.  I can't give you an actual dimension/figure, though.

[T hawker]

Thank you.  Yes the air glide is what I was referring to by the Aviator kneeling.  The Acadia's door sill is 18.5" in height, seat 29".  If the Aviator is near this level it should work just fine.  I'm hoping : )

[mustangchief]

11 hours ago, T hawker said:

Agree, I thought the review was fair.  I don't believe we have a BL dealer in New Mexico, looking at San Diego bc of on hand inventory (Nautilus).  I like the BL not bc of "benefits" but because of interior color choice.  Just tired of the same old black, gray and tan and all of the hard plastics.  That's why I love the Aviator, but don't think my elderly mother can get into it easily bc of step in height, (based on old Explorer) need to check out it's "kneeling" height.  

 

If anyone can give me a kneeling height, ground level to top of front passenger door sill  and seat cushion I would appreciate it.  

 

Thanks,

Steve

This isn't exact, but based off of my pictures and measuring my calf, it is at 13 inches, plus or minus 1 when it is kneeling.  My 5 ft wife had zero issues getting in.  She did look for a running board until it knelt down.  Without the air suspension, it is a step, not big, but enough someone may have issues stepping up to or out of.  The seat drops pretty low, I'd say about 14 inches above the floor.  I'll see if one is available and get you some accurate measurements.  

[T hawker]

2 hours ago, mustangchief said:

This isn't exact, but based off of my pictures and measuring my calf, it is at 13 inches, plus or minus 1 when it is kneeling.  My 5 ft wife had zero issues getting in.  She did look for a running board until it knelt down.  Without the air suspension, it is a step, not big, but enough someone may have issues stepping up to or out of.  The seat drops pretty low, I'd say about 14 inches above the floor.  I'll see if one is available and get you some accurate measurements.  

Thanks mustangchief.  At 13 inches we have a lot of room to play with.  Looks like I'll be waiting for the initial demand to subside then see if i can get one with the x-plan.

[Deafsoundguy]

I generally liked Doug's review. I've seen him screw up a few, like complaining a button doesn't work when in fact he's pressing the wrong spot - argh! But it's clear that he liked the Aviator and that's cool. The only glaring thing that he missed is explaining about the available (Black Label) themes because they can be glaringly different to the eyes and I don't like the Chateau theme at all (not pictured). I also don't care for the swirled metal polishing on the stereo surround he likes. I mean I actually don't like it enough where it might be a deal breaker for me if I wanted to get the Aviator. However the "Destination theme" is something I'd about kill for! So if you read that review and didn't know anything about Black Label and themes you'd be out to lunch on that. The themes are really polarizing and your normal person who may be looking at Lincoln like me and the wife for the first time are going to be really clueless unless there's a whole lot of homework done or they just happen to have that perfect theme for your eyes at the dealership (I'm going to doubt that). If the salesguy doesn't offer that info straight up, then they could possibly lose a sale because some of the colors and themes just don't fly with certain people.

 

We went and looked and sat in a Nautilus Black Label last night. It had the only theme we would even consider for the Nautilus, which was the Thoroughbred theme. My wife is super spoiled with her FPace-S , so it was like pulling teeth to get her to look at the Nautilus. Once she sat down and realized the door materials and quality were like 100 times better she's now very interested in the Nautilus (the Aviator being too big for her). She loved the seats and that was without even adjusting them at all! She was really impressed. I wish she liked the Aviator because it is freakin nice. But she won't have a car that has a third seat.

[mustangchief]

On 9/28/2019 at 1:19 PM, Deafsoundguy said:

I generally liked Doug's review. I've seen him screw up a few, like complaining a button doesn't work when in fact he's pressing the wrong spot - argh! But it's clear that he liked the Aviator and that's cool. The only glaring thing that he missed is explaining about the available (Black Label) themes because they can be glaringly different to the eyes and I don't like the Chateau theme at all (not pictured). I also don't care for the swirled metal polishing on the stereo surround he likes. I mean I actually don't like it enough where it might be a deal breaker for me if I wanted to get the Aviator. However the "Destination theme" is something I'd about kill for! So if you read that review and didn't know anything about Black Label and themes you'd be out to lunch on that. The themes are really polarizing and your normal person who may be looking at Lincoln like me and the wife for the first time are going to be really clueless unless there's a whole lot of homework done or they just happen to have that perfect theme for your eyes at the dealership (I'm going to doubt that). If the salesguy doesn't offer that info straight up, then they could possibly lose a sale because some of the colors and themes just don't fly with certain people.

 

We went and looked and sat in a Nautilus Black Label last night. It had the only theme we would even consider for the Nautilus, which was the Thoroughbred theme. My wife is super spoiled with her FPace-S , so it was like pulling teeth to get her to look at the Nautilus. Once she sat down and realized the door materials and quality were like 100 times better she's now very interested in the Nautilus (the Aviator being too big for her). She loved the seats and that was without even adjusting them at all! She was really impressed. I wish she liked the Aviator because it is freakin nice. But she won't have a car that has a third seat.

Get her to sit in and drive the Aviator, it drives so much smaller than it looks.  Any one buying a Black Label should be helped by a concierge not a salesman. If they act like a salesman, reach out to Lincoln on a social media site or by email.  Heck, if you are in range, have them bring it to your house.  They have a traveling showroom of materials and paint chips.  (I prefer seeing the color on a vehicle). I didn’t like diamond blue on the chip, but that’s what I ordered because it looks good on a full sized car.  

[akirby]

16 minutes ago, mustangchief said:

Get her to sit in and drive the Aviator, it drives so much smaller than it looks.

 

I hope so.  Wife likes her MKX now but for me it's a bit small after driving my F150 for 18 months now.   She thinks the Aviator/Explorer will be too big.

[ANTAUS]

Not sure why he had a deep routed issue with the lighted front emblem. He didn't state why he hated it so much....

[jcartwright99]

15 hours ago, ANTAUS said:

Not sure why he had a deep routed issue with the lighted front emblem. He didn't state why he hated it so much....

 

Pretty sure he thinks it's tacky. Not just for Lincoln but all manufactures (MERCEDES) that do it.

[fuzzymoomoo]

16 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

Pretty sure he thinks it's tacky. Not just for Lincoln but all manufactures (MERCEDES) that do it.

 

And I agree with it. It's tacky af. 

[Deafsoundguy]

On 10/2/2019 at 12:02 PM, mustangchief said:

Get her to sit in and drive the Aviator, it drives so much smaller than it looks.  Any one buying a Black Label should be helped by a concierge not a salesman. If they act like a salesman, reach out to Lincoln on a social media site or by email.  Heck, if you are in range, have them bring it to your house.  They have a traveling showroom of materials and paint chips.  (I prefer seeing the color on a vehicle). I didn’t like diamond blue on the chip, but that’s what I ordered because it looks good on a full sized car.  

Ha well I already learned my mistake once and paid dearly for it - I got her a Buick enclave and it was a great car and drove great. All she did was complain that it was just too big, and had to get her something smaller, which ended up being a SRX, and after that her FPace-S. She likes the FPace size SRX size and that's that. She absolutely would never go with anything over 190". She also puts her nose up at anything too small, so our next purchase I'm gonna get it writing and blood that it's perfectly sized. I do have her interested in the Corsair but I'm pretty sure she'll think it's too small at 6" less than her mama-bear Fpace. Supposedly my dealer will have Corsairs to look at within 3 weeks of today being 10-5-19. So I'm stoked about seeing a Corsair in person, love the interior of that car, my favorite being the wood on black and black interior (we don't live in a hot climate).

 

We are really interested in the Nautilus but only if I go to the trouble of blackening out all the front chrome, grill and powder coat the wheels black (like her Jag). She doesn't like the Black Label 20 spoke 21" wheels, she likes the 21" Reserve 10 spoke ones better so we'd probably go Reserve full loaded. The only thing that sucks is that the leather on the doors isn't quite up to the quality of the Black Label. It looks good but not astounding like on the BL. First world problems for sure.

Since my wife has no visualization skills, I had to painstakingly pixel by pixel make her a crappy rendition of a blacked out Nautilus so she could see it. The things we have to do to please our wives....

[Deafsoundguy]

On 10/3/2019 at 11:12 AM, jcartwright99 said:

 

Pretty sure he thinks it's tacky. Not just for Lincoln but all manufactures (MERCEDES) that do it.

I can see why someone would think it's tacky. I'm on the fence. For $500 for the option for Mercedes, I'd pass. If it comes with it and I can turn it on or off, then I'd take it. I have to say though, that here about a month ago I did sound for an event out by the river and there was no lights after the show was over. Someone has a Mercedes with the lighted option and it stood out in the dark and was kinda cool looking out in the night. As well, the owner could certainly see where their car was.... tacky or not, it it was nerdy cool. maybe over the top cool, but still....

[Gurgeh]

20 hours ago, Deafsoundguy said:

She doesn't like the Black Label 20 spoke 21" wheels, she likes the 21" Reserve 10 spoke ones better so we'd probably go Reserve full loaded. The only thing that sucks is that the leather on the doors isn't quite up to the quality of the Black Label.

 

You can almost certainly talk your Lincoln dealer into doing a no-cost wheel swap for you on delivery. All they have to do is find another customer who is interested in a free "upgrade" to the Black Label wheels. I had worked out that exact arrangement with my dealer but then saw the BL wheels in person and loved them so I canceled the swap.

 

I agree, the quality of the leather, the headliner and other interior materials in the Black Label Nautilus is amazing.  I'm glad I went with it.

[Bellanca]

As far as the illuminated star goes I don’t think it looks bad actually, I think since it’s not a huge emblem it pulls it off well and as Lincoln tries to build brand recognition it adds to that. I’m at a little over 1,000 miles in and I love this car. 

[Deafsoundguy]

4 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

 

You can almost certainly talk your Lincoln dealer into doing a no-cost wheel swap for you on delivery. All they have to do is find another customer who is interested in a free "upgrade" to the Black Label wheels. I had worked out that exact arrangement with my dealer but then saw the BL wheels in person and loved them so I canceled the swap.

 

I agree, the quality of the leather, the headliner and other interior materials in the Black Label Nautilus is amazing.  I'm glad I went with it.

So I'm not imagining things? The leather on the BL doors from memory is better than any other models right? I'm guessing the door "leather" is actually "Leatherette"?

 

So right now we're in a real quandary. First of all I need to get my wife to actually test drive a Nautilus and then a Corsair and see if she even gives it a thumbs up because she's used to a fast car. She's had a boot on for 2 months and it comes off Monday hopefully (broken foot). It's been her left foot so she still drives just fine but she claims it has to be off for her to feel comfortable test driving a new car..? oh my God really? Okay then we have this now TOTAL first world problem of a car that can be cheaper and have the wheels she likes and only okay leather, or the more expensive one with truly nice leather and that extra pizzazz the BL has, but has the wheels she wants to run from because of the thought of cleaning those multi-spoke suckers... ?. Then, the actual BL dealer who we are fortunate to live like very close to, really are being pretty lazy about wanting our business. Real lazy. But the non-BL dealer really seems to want to work overtime getting out business and doing want it might take to get that all black everywhere look. So then we couldn't get a BL from them, and they're a lot further away.

 

Now then, when I was actually out at the second non-BL dealer, before I could even mention wheel swaps, the upper management sales guy said they get that request all the time and don't do it because it screws up something or rather, but I'm sure that all depends on the dealer and how hungry someone is. ?

[Gurgeh]

3 hours ago, Deafsoundguy said:

So I'm not imagining things? The leather on the BL doors from memory is better than any other models right? I'm guessing the door "leather" is actually "Leatherette"?

 

So right now we're in a real quandary. First of all I need to get my wife to actually test drive a Nautilus and then a Corsair and see if she even gives it a thumbs up because she's used to a fast car. She's had a boot on for 2 months and it comes off Monday hopefully (broken foot). It's been her left foot so she still drives just fine but she claims it has to be off for her to feel comfortable test driving a new car..? oh my God really? Okay then we have this now TOTAL first world problem of a car that can be cheaper and have the wheels she likes and only okay leather, or the more expensive one with truly nice leather and that extra pizzazz the BL has, but has the wheels she wants to run from because of the thought of cleaning those multi-spoke suckers... ?. Then, the actual BL dealer who we are fortunate to live like very close to, really are being pretty lazy about wanting our business. Real lazy. But the non-BL dealer really seems to want to work overtime getting out business and doing want it might take to get that all black everywhere look. So then we couldn't get a BL from them, and they're a lot further away.

 

Now then, when I was actually out at the second non-BL dealer, before I could even mention wheel swaps, the upper management sales guy said they get that request all the time and don't do it because it screws up something or rather, but I'm sure that all depends on the dealer and how hungry someone is. ?

 

Not imagining. The headliner is a soft, rich synthetic suede. The leather on the dash is soft and rich. The leather on the seats, with striking accent stitching, is so much softer and supple it makes the seats noticeably more comfortable. The leather on the center and door arm rests is soft, padded real leather as well, and is a delight every time you touch it. Ditto on the steering wheel. Try to find a dealer who has a BL Nautilus in stock and sit in it. You won't believe it is the same vehicle. 

 

BTW, I did get the "won't do it" from one dealer I talked to, but there is no real reason they can't do it if they want to make a sale. It is annoying to them as they have to get the two cars jacked up, spend a little time swapping wheels, etc. Then I found my Lincoln-only dealer in suburban Maryland, East West Lincoln, and I talked to the co-owner and my salesperson, and they were both surprised that another dealer would resist doing a wheel swap if it means keeping a customer happy and making a sale. In my view, this is a good test of how good the Lincoln dealer really is and how much stock they put into building lasting relationships with clients.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Gurgeh

[Deafsoundguy]

21 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

 

Not imagining. The headliner is a soft, rich synthetic suede. The leather on the dash is soft and rich. The leather on the seats, with striking accent stitching, is so much softer and supple it makes the seats noticeably more comfortable. The leather on the center and door arm rests is soft, padded real leather as well, and is a delight every time you touch it. Ditto on the steering wheel. Try to find a dealer who has a BL Nautilus in stock and sit in it. You won't believe it is the same vehicle. 

 

BTW, I did get the "won't do it" from one dealer I talked to, but there is no real reason they can't do it if they want to make a sale. It is annoying to them as they have to get the two cars jacked up, spend a little time swapping wheels, etc. Then I found my Lincoln-only dealer in suburban Maryland, East West Lincoln, and I talked to the co-owner and my salesperson, and they were both surprised that another dealer would resist doing a wheel swap if it means keeping a customer happy and making a sale. In my view, this is a good test of how good the Lincoln dealer really is and how much stock they put into building lasting relationships with clients.

Thanks for the info. Maybe there's a lot of people who wouldn't notice but I do and of course you do. I'm used to a really amazing interior on my ELR so everything has to measure up to that. The FPace is beautiful and fast, but plasticky craptacular interior door quality and the leather and stitching isn't up to my standards, seats are good. I'm super glad that you mention the seat quality. So that was another thing that I thought perhaps was better in the BL. But I don't think they hype that, that a BL seat is that much better. If you for sure know it's noticeably softer and better, that's a really good point to give my wife.

 

She really wants a red car and that's another big point away from the BL because we can't get red and she doesn't like the BL wheels (not me!) However over dinner last night she said she doesn't want to get another car if it's just as good in a different way or worse. It has to be better in a big way before she will consider it. So right now it's looking like she may toss in the towel and choose a different color and accept the wheels to get way better leather, suede look headliner, way better looking interior doors, a supremely better stereo and better, massaging seats. I will have to do whatever it takes to get everything else black to appease her (I like it way better all black too)

[rmc523]

36 minutes ago, Deafsoundguy said:

Thanks for the info. Maybe there's a lot of people who wouldn't notice but I do and of course you do. I'm used to a really amazing interior on my ELR so everything has to measure up to that. The FPace is beautiful and fast, but plasticky craptacular interior door quality and the leather and stitching isn't up to my standards, seats are good. I'm super glad that you mention the seat quality. So that was another thing that I thought perhaps was better in the BL. But I don't think they hype that, that a BL seat is that much better. If you for sure know it's noticeably softer and better, that's a really good point to give my wife.

 

She really wants a red car and that's another big point away from the BL because we can't get red and she doesn't like the BL wheels (not me!) However over dinner last night she said she doesn't want to get another car if it's just as good in a different way or worse. It has to be better in a big way before she will consider it. So right now it's looking like she may toss in the towel and choose a different color and accept the wheels to get way better leather, suede look headliner, way better looking interior doors, a supremely better stereo and better, massaging seats. I will have to do whatever it takes to get everything else black to appease her (I like it way better all black too)

 

You can get a "Burgundy Velvet" Nautilus.  Which is a red color.  It's not bright red, but it's a red color.

 

And wheels are the easiest thing on a car to change; I personally wouldn't make a decision on a vehicle based on the wheels.......or I guess I should say wheels shouldn't be the deciding factor (unless of course it were a scenario where there were two otherwise identical models and you liked the wheels on one better than the other)

[Deafsoundguy]

22 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

You can get a "Burgundy Velvet" Nautilus.  Which is a red color.  It's not bright red, but it's a red color.

 

And wheels are the easiest thing on a car to change; I personally wouldn't make a decision on a vehicle based on the wheels.......or I guess I should say wheels shouldn't be the deciding factor (unless of course it were a scenario where there were two otherwise identical models and you liked the wheels on one better than the other)

The burgundy pics look amazing in a lot of shots and that is the actual color my wife wants - a deep candy apple metallic dark red. BUT, that's not the color we've experienced when we go to the dealer. The actual color of burgundy standing right there in front of it at the dealer is a very dark purple that's kinda drab. I couldn't even make out in metallic flakes except for the very brightest of sunlight. My wife was really bummed, and so was I as we both love the color that's shown in so many Nautilus shots but it just doesn't look like that at all.

 

I'm going to include two pics that clearly show a Black Label Nautilus, and then a shot I found on the net that's actually closer to the real color I've experienced. I just don't get it ?. As you can see, the actual color is way darker and way less sunlight reflecting. In my opinion even the last shot showing the truer color is still more colorful than the actual color.

 

At one point my lovely wife said she'd rather have less of a car and get red (so a Reserve), but after mulling over thoughts about getting the very best leather on the doors and especially seats, she's contemplating biting the color bullet and getting an available color to get a Black Label, even though she'd rather use a different dealer who unfortunately isn't a BL dealer... I'm kinda pushing for the BL because I love top quality things in all things, leather, tools, you name it, top quality is always something that you appreciate more over time.

 

Regarding the wheels, getting a BL is really going to be the top of our budget even after selling her current car. So wasting money on getting more wheels isn't something we're going to be able to afford, especially big 21"s.... I personally like the BL 21"s it's just my wife needs to come around... ?