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2020 Aviator Start Stop :-(


Icspres

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On 9/21/2019 at 3:10 PM, Professor1234 said:

I’d feel the same way if it wasn’t for my corporate vehicle having it (2017 F150 3.5T) and me being able to play with and learn to live with it.  Yes, sport mode disables it. But once you get used to it and are able to ‘manipulate’ it, there’s actually a sense that you’re saving fuel and not causing undue wear to the systems. 

 

By manipulate I mean mean that you can modulate the brake so it doesn’t shut off. Quite important when you need to enter an intersection quickly and get up to high speed! 

 

If you are entering an intersection so quickly that the start/stop is such a concern, then you are not safetly entering the intersection.  Start/stop is so instantaneous that the engine is running before you step on the gas.

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2 hours ago, blwnsmoke said:

 

If you are entering an intersection so quickly that the start/stop is such a concern, then you are not safetly entering the intersection.  Start/stop is so instantaneous that the engine is running before you step on the gas.

Not always. There are times when there is a delay to where the brake pedal is released and it takes an extra second for it to restart.  In certain situations I prefer to have the engine running the whole time. Quick press of the on/off is all I need.  

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1 hour ago, Professor1234 said:

Not always. There are times when there is a delay to where the brake pedal is released and it takes an extra second for it to restart.  In certain situations I prefer to have the engine running the whole time. Quick press of the on/off is all I need.  

 

I’ve never experienced that type of delay in my 18 month old f150.

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16 hours ago, Professor1234 said:

Not always. There are times when there is a delay to where the brake pedal is released and it takes an extra second for it to restart.  In certain situations I prefer to have the engine running the whole time. Quick press of the on/off is all I need.  

I have never experienced any delay.  Literally as soon as I start to let up, it restarts.  The only way I can beat the system and get my foot on the gas pedal before it restarts is if I slide my foot from left to right essentially not lifting off the brake.  At that point, I can actually press on the gas before the restart.  But at any point I go to lift off, even a 1/16", it restarts.

 

This goes for every Ford I have driven with this system.

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1 hour ago, Wheeling said:

Does Start/Stop also works in the GT? It seems counter productive in the GT, when stops, the engine can recharge the battery. So why shut it off?

To save gas.  Having the engine on while standing still is a waste - and only needed  perhaps for heat and A/C which the battery can supply for a short time.

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1 hour ago, Wheeling said:

Does Start/Stop also works in the GT? It seems counter productive in the GT, when stops, the engine can recharge the battery. So why shut it off?

 

According to my dealer the behavior in the GT is identical to the Black Label that I'm purchasing.

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I will say that with my new Expedition the Auto Start/Stop has been a little rough, but it is smoothing out somewhat.  Hoping as I drive more, it continues to smooth out.  Still I haven't cared to disable it.  It works like it is supposed to by restarting to keep the AC cool and there is no real lag when I lift the brake pedal.

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On 9/8/2019 at 8:15 PM, sullynd said:

 

Many (if not all) modern Fords will turn off if left to idle (30 minutes?) and you don’t ok it continuing to run. 

Good plan.
But wouldn't it be simpler to have a tone/alert activated when the driver's door is opened while the car is running?

 

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1 hour ago, jniffen said:

Good plan.
But wouldn't it be simpler to have a tone/alert activated when the driver's door is opened while the car is running?

 

 

I believe it does give you an alert but it also double honks the horn when you close the door for exactly that reason.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  1. If as an owner of a 2020 Aviator, if I can manually turn this feature off every time I start the engine; then Lincoln should keep me as a Happy returning customer, and default it to OFF for me.  Had I know about this features default state before purchase, I would have told the salesman where he could put the demo vehicle!!!!!!  I still have not heard back from my service manager or Mark Fields requesting that it be changed!!!!!!!!!!!
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2 hours ago, JohnLouis said:
  1. If as an owner of a 2020 Aviator, if I can manually turn this feature off every time I start the engine; then Lincoln should keep me as a Happy returning customer, and default it to OFF for me.  Had I know about this features default state before purchase, I would have told the salesman where he could put the demo vehicle!!!!!!  I still have not heard back from my service manager or Mark Fields requesting that it be changed!!!!!!!!!!!

If it can be set "off" as a default then it should be  "off" while they do the EPA mileage ratings and let Lincoln suffer the consequences.  The default though should be for it to be "On".  I suspect 99% of the people will not care and that will add up to a lot of savings in gas not being  burned unnecessarily.  What you should be writing Mark Fields is if you have any complaints in the actual operation of the engine off system i.e. it not being seamless.  

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2 hours ago, JohnLouis said:
  1. If as an owner of a 2020 Aviator, if I can manually turn this feature off every time I start the engine; then Lincoln should keep me as a Happy returning customer, and default it to OFF for me.  Had I know about this features default state before purchase, I would have told the salesman where he could put the demo vehicle!!!!!!  I still have not heard back from my service manager or Mark Fields requesting that it be changed!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Blame the epa.  If it can be turned off permanently it can’t be used during epa mpg tests.   Therefore Ford can’t turn it off.  You can use Forscan to turn it off or there are aftermarket devices.

 

But why not give it a couple of weeks?  I got used to it on my f150 and now I don’t even notice it.  Sounds like you decided you don’t like it without giving it a chance.

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37 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Blame the epa.  If it can be turned off permanently it can’t be used during epa mpg tests.   Therefore Ford can’t turn it off.  You can use Forscan to turn it off or there are aftermarket devices.

 

But why not give it a couple of weeks?  I got used to it on my f150 and now I don’t even notice it.  Sounds like you decided you don’t like it without giving it a chance.

 

You know what bugs me about this, I assumed when I was first looking into this when I started this thread that the net gain from something this intrusive would have to be in the 10-15% range, right? I mean, to be worth the trouble? Nope, 5%. The EPA estimated overall mileage gain for vehicles with stop start is 5%...at time of purchase. Plain common sense tells me that it's a net loss, no way all the tech involved and whatever modest extra wear and tear, the fact that the start/stop function is bound to be rougher over time isn't going to lead to vehicles being thrown away 5% sooner. My wife is still on track to take delivery of her Aviator though. Whatever.

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17 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

You know what bugs me about this, I assumed when I was first looking into this when I started this thread that the net gain from something this intrusive would have to be in the 10-15% range, right? I mean, to be worth the trouble? Nope, 5%. The EPA estimated overall mileage gain for vehicles with stop start is 5%...at time of purchase. Plain common sense tells me that it's a net loss, no way all the tech involved and whatever modest extra wear and tear, the fact that the start/stop function is bound to be rougher over time isn't going to lead to vehicles being thrown away 5% sooner. My wife is still on track to take delivery of her Aviator though. Whatever.

In 2015 Americans consumed over 140 billion gallons of gasoline.  5% is Huge.  Reset your trip odometer and mileage gauge and watch you average mpg on a highway for about 5 miles and then get into town and literally watch the mileage go down as you sit at a stop - yes it makes a difference.

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48 minutes ago, Icspres said:

... vehicles being thrown away 5% sooner. My wife is still on track to take delivery of her Aviator though. Whatever.

The manufacturers have this already factored in.  They are building the parts more durable to handle the increased usage.  Mainly the starter.  But new transmissions are being designed with start/stop in mind to keep the hydraulics ready to go.  I'm sure a lot more than just those.

 

A few years ago, most makers switched to electric power steering.  That gave 5%.  There have been a few other things done as well.  So it all starts to add up.

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35 minutes ago, 92merc said:

The manufacturers have this already factored in.  They are building the parts more durable to handle the increased usage.  Mainly the starter.  But new transmissions are being designed with start/stop in mind to keep the hydraulics ready to go.  I'm sure a lot more than just those.

 

A few years ago, most makers switched to electric power steering.  That gave 5%.  There have been a few other things done as well.  So it all starts to add up.

 

Rhetorical, but have vehicle prices increased by 5% as a result of the beefed up transmission, starter, etc? And still I assume the start stop will get rougher with age, just common sense. I grew up a long time ago, but I grew up believing the most damage a motor takes is at startup when you get a modicum of ring wash from unburned gas. I get this is ancient history, but still if as the engine gets older, 100k-150k miles and the motor takes a bit more of a bump to start firing again at a stop light, a little more unburned gas, build up on the valves, clogging of injector? Makes me think every car out there, they all have start stop, are going to start needing valve jobs or new injectors or some other weird, not recently heard of major service we're not used to. You see this on some cars, unexpected big service items like the waste gates on last gen bimmers, major expense at 60-80k miles that nobody who bought them new ever saw coming. It again just seems to me it's all a net negative.

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1 hour ago, msm859 said:

In 2015 Americans consumed over 140 billion gallons of gasoline.  5% is Huge.  Reset your trip odometer and mileage gauge and watch you average mpg on a highway for about 5 miles and then get into town and literally watch the mileage go down as you sit at a stop - yes it makes a difference.

 

I get it, in a static analysis . But if the over-engineering of the requisite components increases the vehicle cost and the start stop affects overall customer satisfaction and driveability or even reliability over an extended period of time, causing people to throw their cars away sooner, in a dynamic analysis it's a net negative on the environment.

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35 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

Rhetorical, but have vehicle prices increased by 5% as a result of the beefed up transmission, starter, etc? And still I assume the start stop will get rougher with age, just common sense. I grew up a long time ago, but I grew up believing the most damage a motor takes is at startup when you get a modicum of ring wash from unburned gas. I get this is ancient history, but still if as the engine gets older, 100k-150k miles and the motor takes a bit more of a bump to start firing again at a stop light, a little more unburned gas, build up on the valves, clogging of injector? Makes me think every car out there, they all have start stop, are going to start needing valve jobs or new injectors or some other weird, not recently heard of major service we're not used to. You see this on some cars, unexpected big service items like the waste gates on last gen bimmers, major expense at 60-80k miles that nobody who bought them new ever saw coming. It again just seems to me it's all a net negative.

Your start/stop scenario for engine damage is based on COLD engine and port fuel or carb. The engine DOES not start/stop cold for this reason. There is no enrichment to restart like old port fuel or carb. There is no more wear to the engine than if it idled the entire time.  

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5 minutes ago, YT90SC said:

Your start/stop scenario for engine damage is based on COLD engine and port fuel or carb. The engine DOES not start/stop cold for this reason. There is no enrichment to restart like old port fuel or carb. There is no more wear to the engine than if it idled the entire time.  

 

Fair enough. I freely admit my knowledge of mechanics is ancient and I figured I'd get an answer to this effect.

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