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Icspres

2020 Aviator Start Stop :-(

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I have seen a lot of bricked modules/corrupt software from people jacking around with Forscan with no idea what they are doing. You brick it, you bough it, no warranty. If you come in for something unrelated like a leak, still warranty. 

 

Stop/start is a part of the vehicle's overall emissions package. There will NEVER be a Ford/Lincoln approved method or update to disable it. Tampering with it is an EPA fine-able offense.

 

OP You REALLY need to drive a vehicle with it. It is not noticeable at all. In fact, most customers complain when it *doesn't* work.

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8 minutes ago, YT90SC said:

I have seen a lot of bricked modules/corrupt software from people jacking around with Forscan with no idea what they are doing. You brick it, you bough it, no warranty. If you come in for something unrelated like a leak, still warranty. 

 

Stop/start is a part of the vehicle's overall emissions package. There will NEVER be a Ford/Lincoln approved method or update to disable it. Tampering with it is an EPA fine-able offense.

 

OP You REALLY need to drive a vehicle with it. It is not noticeable at all. In fact, most customers complain when it *doesn't* work.

 

This thing is supposed to be a 20th anniversary present for my wife. This ******** is forcing me to come clean and take her to the dealership when it comes in about 6 weeks before our actual date to do that very thing. Unless I cancel between now and then. She's been in two MB GL's over the last decade and frankly fully optioned the Aviation isn't much cheaper. I'd like to go American again, but if the MB is more pleasant to drive, to include a BUTTON to turn it off every time as opposed to some features menu, that's a quality of life issue that can't be ignored.

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2 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

This thing is supposed to be a 20th anniversary present for my wife. This ******** is forcing me to come clean and take her to the dealership when it comes in about 6 weeks before our actual date to do that very thing. Unless I cancel between now and then. She's been in two MB GL's over the last decade and frankly fully optioned the Aviation isn't much cheaper. I'd like to go American again, but if the MB is more pleasant to drive, to include a BUTTON to turn it off every time as opposed to some features menu, that's a quality of life issue that can't be ignored.

Seriously, DRIVE THE CAR. Go for a test drive without her. It is NOT noticeable. 

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4 minutes ago, YT90SC said:

Seriously, DRIVE THE CAR. Go for a test drive without her. It is NOT noticeable. 

 

Do Ecoboost motors restart by firing the piston closest to top like MB or does it hit the starter each time?

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The PCM knows where the crank stops, and gives a quick bump of the starter. 

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Why are you hyper fixating on something you haven't driven yet? I mean driving it answers your questions. Trying to come up with away to avoid something that may or may not bother you seems like a waste of time. To each their own I guess.

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9 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

Why are you hyper fixating on something you haven't driven yet? I mean driving it answers your questions. Trying to come up with away to avoid something that may or may not bother you seems like a waste of time. To each their own I guess.

 

So you consider doing my research a new car purchase for my 20th anniversary to be hyper fixating? Are you imagining me sitting in the dark wringing my hands over it? You also seem to think I've never driven a car with start-stop before? Or that my wife and I don't have some reasonably well formed opinion of our own? I'm not big fan of feeding trolls but don't you think that's a little bit of a leap?

Edited by Icspres

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20 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

So you consider doing my research a new car purchase for my 20th anniversary to be hyper fixating? Are you imagining me sitting in the dark wringing my hands over it? You also seem to think I've never driven a car with start-stop before? Or that my wife and I don't have some reasonably well formed opinion of our own? I'm not big fan of feeding trolls but don't you think that's a little bit of a leap?

 

I'm no troll but am sincerely asking, why you aren't driving it first? It seems that would answer your questions about whether or not it would be an issue. Nobody is faulting you for doing research. I guess I value my time more than you do. You do you though.

Edited by jcartwright99

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14 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

So you consider doing my research a new car purchase for my 20th anniversary to be hyper fixating? Are you imagining me sitting in the dark wringing my hands over it? You also seem to think I've never driven a car with start-stop before? Or that my wife and I don't have some reasonably well formed opinion of our own? I'm not big fan of feeding trolls but don't you think that's a little bit of a leap?

I think what most people are getting at is that the system used by Ford/Lincoln for 2019+ model years is way better than what you may have experienced before with any other vehicle.  I drove a 2019 Expedition and specifically wanted to check the auto stop start feature and the engine RPM was at idle before moving from the brake to gas it was that quick.  The feature was not objectionable and unless you are monitoring RPM on the tach you would not notice as the engine noise at idle is less than the surrounding ambient noise (radio, conversation, traffic, etc.).  Let your wife drive one, if not the Aviator, let her drive a Continental, Navigator, Expedition, or Explorer.  Make sure it is enabled and don't tell her about it, see if she notices.  Also as others have mentioned if you switch to the performance mode (excite) it disables it.

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3 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

I'm no troll but am sincerely asking, why you aren't driving it first? It seems that would answer your questions about whether or not it would be an issue. Nobody is faulting you for doing research. I guess I value my time more than you do. You do you though.

 

 you say you're not trolling but then you end with the quip about how you value your time more than I do. I run a 40 Man Government Contracting Company in the Cyber and network engineering space, have two small children, I'm busy from the minute I wake to the minute I go to sleep. I'm dictating right now while on an elliptical watching the news. Maybe I'm just a hell of a lot more productive than you are.

 

I've driven quite a number of cars with start-stop, mostly Mercedes and Porsche loaners. I have a pretty good idea what's the best it could be is. And I did say I was going to take a test drive. When it comes in if not sooner. Would you say it's a better or worse use of my time to figure out which cars I want to spend an hour going to test drive from a cellphone on an elliptical watching the news or do you think I'm better off figuring it out in person test driving 

each car?

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10 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

I think what most people are getting at is that the system used by Ford/Lincoln for 2019+ model years is way better than what you may have experienced before with any other vehicle.  I drove a 2019 Expedition and specifically wanted to check the auto stop start feature and the engine RPM was at idle before moving from the brake to gas it was that quick.  The feature was not objectionable and unless you are monitoring RPM on the tach you would not notice as the engine noise at idle is less than the surrounding ambient noise (radio, conversation, traffic, etc.).  Let your wife drive one, if not the Aviator, let her drive a Continental, Navigator, Expedition, or Explorer.  Make sure it is enabled and don't tell her about it, see if she notices.  Also as others have mentioned if you switch to the performance mode (excite) it disables it.

 

Agree completely. The problem is not blowing the surprise right? I just replace the carpet including the cargo space in her GL450, take the swirls out and sealed with ceramic for the third time. I put a lot of effort into throwing her off the scent.

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1 hour ago, YT90SC said:

Stop/start is a part of the vehicle's overall emissions package. There will NEVER be a Ford/Lincoln approved method or update to disable it. Tampering with it is an EPA fine-able offense.


Also disabling it permanently is technically a crime in some states as you are tampering with the approved emissions of the vehicle. It could even get worse if you were in an accident as the vehicle is technically not street legal under EPA rules, on top if a vehicle were totaled and you were paid out you then sold a party (Insurance Company) a vehicle with a tampered emission control system.

 

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7 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

 you say you're not trolling but then you end with the quip about how you value your time more than I do. I run a 40 Man Government Contracting Company in the Cyber and network engineering space, have two small children, I'm busy from the minute I wake to the minute I go to sleep. I'm dictating right now while on an elliptical watching the news. Maybe I'm just a hell of a lot more productive than you are.

 

I've driven quite a number of cars with start-stop, mostly Mercedes and Porsche loaners. I have a pretty good idea what's the best it could be is. And I did say I was going to take a test drive. When it comes in if not sooner. Would you say it's a better or worse use of my time to figure out which cars I want to spend an hour going to test drive from a cellphone on an elliptical watching the news or do you think I'm better off figuring it out in person test driving 

each car?

 

3 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

Agree completely. The problem is not blowing the surprise right? I just replace the carpet including the cargo space in her GL450, take the swirls out and sealed with ceramic for the third time. I put a lot of effort into throwing her off the scent.

 

While I have no experience with how it is enabled in MB and Porsche, I do have experience on how it is on a 2017 Toyota Highlander and it is terrible in the Highlander.  The Ford system is light years ahead.  The Toyota is a noticeable restart and isn't quick.  With the Toyota, you have to feather the brake pedal to get it to restart once stopped.

 

One thing you could do is "randomly" drive by a Lincoln dealer and say "hey I want to drive one of those new Aviators, lets stop in and take one for a spin" then she'll just think you are just messing around.  Then tell the dealer you aren't in the market but wanted to compare to your current stable to see if it is all that.

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Ran into town for some supplies to start winterizing the house in a few weeks. Stop-Start worked every time! Yay! 

 

Then I realized when the cold hits I won't see it until Spring. ☹️

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2 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

 you say you're not trolling but then you end with the quip about how you value your time more than I do. I run a 40 Man Government Contracting Company in the Cyber and network engineering space, have two small children, I'm busy from the minute I wake to the minute I go to sleep. I'm dictating right now while on an elliptical watching the news. Maybe I'm just a hell of a lot more productive than you are.

 

I've driven quite a number of cars with start-stop, mostly Mercedes and Porsche loaners. I have a pretty good idea what's the best it could be is. And I did say I was going to take a test drive. When it comes in if not sooner. Would you say it's a better or worse use of my time to figure out which cars I want to spend an hour going to test drive from a cellphone on an elliptical watching the news or do you think I'm better off figuring it out in person test driving 

each car?

 

Sorry you lost me at government contracting. Color me not impressed. Nobody cares what you do or how much money you make. Getting all bent out shape when someone asks you a logical question, is on you. I am not a a moderator, but I will say all are welcome here. However, someone relatively new, such as yourself, needs to think about why they are here. If you are here asking questions, then you may want to be polite and listen. Just my opinion, take it or leave it. 

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8 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:


Also disabling it permanently is technically a crime in some states as you are tampering with the approved emissions of the vehicle. It could even get worse if you were in an accident as the vehicle is technically not street legal under EPA rules, on top if a vehicle were totaled and you were paid out you then sold a party (Insurance Company) a vehicle with a tampered emission control system.

You know, I love my 2006 Cayenne Turbo S. I love how its ages so gracefully and still turns heads, can take it to Cars and Coffee all winter long and looks like it belongs. Here's yet another great reason to not replace it with a new Cayenne.

 

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8 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

Sorry you lost me at government contracting. Color me not impressed. Nobody cares what you do or how much money you make. Getting all bent out shape when someone asks you a logical question, is on you. I am not a a moderator, but I will say all are welcome here. However, someone relatively new, such as yourself, needs to think about why they are here. If you are here asking questions, then you may want to be polite and listen. Just my opinion, take it or leave it. 

 

Quite the contrary, how long you have been here doesn't give you the right to lob thinly veiled insults and left-handed compliments at the new guy. You're again taking a massive leap. My comment had only to do with how busy I am, a topic you brought up. I've been around forums since the 80s. You want to dig a hole, I'll hand you a shovel. I'm here for the right reasons but I will call out a troll, snarky or otherwise. 

Edited by Icspres

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9 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

Quite the contrary, how long you have been here doesn't give you the right to thinly veiled insults and left-handed compliments at the new guy. You're against it in the massive leap. My comment had only to do with how busy I am, a topic you brought up. I've been around forums since the 80s. You want to dig a hole, I'll hand you a shovel. I'm here for the right reasons but I will call out a troll, snarky or otherwise. 

 

You would be the first person here to call me a troll. Answer this, if you drove the Aviator would it determine if it would be a potential problem for you and your wife? Yes or no? If yes, drive the Aviator.  It's that simple. 

 

I don't need you to validate who you are or what you've done. Don't care and it doesn't matter. Good Luck on your search! 

Edited by jcartwright99

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3 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

You would be the first person here to call me a troll. Answer this, if you drove the Aviator would it determine if it would be a potential problem for you and your wife? Yes or no? If yes, drive the Aviator.  It's that simple. 

 

I don't need you to validate who you are or what you've done. Don't care and it doesn't matter. Good Luck on your search! 

 

I doubt I'm the first person who's thought it. You just keep proving my point.

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20 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

I doubt I'm the first person who's thought it. You just keep proving my point.

 

Actually he’s right and you’re wrong here.  All he said was most people find it’s not noticeable or objectionable and the ONLY way for you to know is to go drive it and then worry about it because there is a 80% chance or better that it’s a complete non issue.

 

if you want to continue whining then you’ll have to endure us continuing to point this out.

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1 hour ago, Icspres said:

 

Quite the contrary, how long you have been here doesn't give you the right to lob thinly veiled insults and left-handed compliments at the new guy. You're again taking a massive leap. My comment had only to do with how busy I am, a topic you brought up. I've been around forums since the 80s. You want to dig a hole, I'll hand you a shovel. I'm here for the right reasons but I will call out a troll, snarky or otherwise. 

Why are you still posting? You made a point of how time-consuming your incredibly important job is. You don't have time to be screwing around here.

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Just test drove a Reserve II and didn't feel a thing about  Start/Stop. 

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Just now, Wheeling said:

Just test drove a Reserve II and didn't feel a thing about  Start/Stop. 

 

Great to hear. Thank You. It's on our agenda for today. I'm still concerned that five years from now it will not be as smooth as it is new. All of this CAFE stuff is supposed to reduce our carbon footprint, but for the estimated 5% increase in fuel efficiency, I've got to expect the cost in service and components, long term satisfaction is going to lead to greater carbon footprint. I'll bet this feature alone is responsible for a good year or two decrease in average time a vehicle spends in service. But you can't get out of it. Our backups are a new MB GLS450 or '17 GLS63, both of which have Eco-start. Everything does now, it seems. Again, thanks for the review. I'm looking forward to our test drive in a couple hours.

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They upgraded the starter and the battery to compensate for the increased usage so there shouldn't be any durability concerns and it doesn't really add any new moving parts.

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22 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

Great to hear. Thank You. It's on our agenda for today. I'm still concerned that five years from now it will not be as smooth as it is new. All of this CAFE stuff is supposed to reduce our carbon footprint, but for the estimated 5% increase in fuel efficiency, I've got to expect the cost in service and components, long term satisfaction is going to lead to greater carbon footprint. I'll bet this feature alone is responsible for a good year or two decrease in average time a vehicle spends in service. But you can't get out of it. Our backups are a new MB GLS450 or '17 GLS63, both of which have Eco-start. Everything does now, it seems. Again, thanks for the review. I'm looking forward to our test drive in a couple hours.

Actually your backup plan should be the Aviator GT.  I suspect that will have no start/stop issues.  Funny different perspectives -  my only concern is that the GT won't reduce my carbon footprint enough over the standard model - so will be waiting for real world reviews on that issue.  This start/stop thing reminds of the "worry" some had on the Corvette forums with CAGS - that would at low speed would cause you to shift from 1st to 4th gear.  A lot of people were upset about that and bought devices to deactivate it.  I have had 4 manuals in 19 years - they all had it and it was a non issue for me.  If stop/start was to save 5% gas on every car sold that would be huge.

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