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Ford downgraded by Moodys

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51 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Exactly.  I bet Edge ST outsold the old Fusion Sport 4:1 if not more.

 

To be honest with you, I don't recall ever seeing a Fusion Sport on the road-in the lots yes, but not on the road. Then again they do look very similar to a regular fusion

 

I've seen a shit ton of Edge ST's though-then again they do have that red ST badge that gets your attention too. 

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

 

Exactly.  I bet Edge ST outsold the old Fusion Sport 4:1 if not more.

 

Not sure about that; anecdotally, Ford seem to be having to give away Edge ST's: https://www.koons.com/new/Ford/2019-Ford-Edge-for-sale-baltimore-washington-dc-e158c8fa0a0e0ae94f85e1af515101d4.htm

 

I'm not claiming that's a typical deal, but that dealer has nine listed at the same discount. If I were in the market, I'd be looking very hard at one of their ST's.

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24 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

To be honest with you, I don't recall ever seeing a Fusion Sport on the road-in the lots yes, but not on the road. Then again they do look very similar to a regular fusion

 

I've seen a shit ton of Edge ST's though-then again they do have that red ST badge that gets your attention too. 

 

I've seen only a handful of Fusion Sports.  Edge Sports and STs are everywhere though.

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6 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Not sure about that; anecdotally, Ford seem to be having to give away Edge ST's: https://www.koons.com/new/Ford/2019-Ford-Edge-for-sale-baltimore-washington-dc-e158c8fa0a0e0ae94f85e1af515101d4.htm

 

I'm not claiming that's a typical deal, but that dealer has nine listed at the same discount. If I were in the market, I'd be looking very hard at one of their ST's.

 

That's the same for all Edges.   This one is a SEL with a $13K discount.   https://www.koons.com/new/Ford/2019-Ford-Edge-for-sale-baltimore-washington-dc-0afa4e400a0e0a6b0837c8e8157b313d.htm

 

Looks like SELs are around $5K rebates,  STs around $3250 and Titaniums at $2K (around here at least) so I don't think they're having to give away the STs per se.

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I don't remember what thread it was on, but someone mentioned maybe Ford is temporarily increasing the incentives on Edge to alleviate the Explorer changeover.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

 

That's the same for all Edges.   This one is a SEL with a $13K discount.   https://www.koons.com/new/Ford/2019-Ford-Edge-for-sale-baltimore-washington-dc-0afa4e400a0e0a6b0837c8e8157b313d.htm

 

Looks like SELs are around $5K rebates,  STs around $3250 and Titaniums at $2K (around here at least) so I don't think they're having to give away the STs per se.

 

Sorry, but if they have to put $10k on the hood to move it, they are in 'giving it away' territory. Unless Ford priced the ST with a 'built in' $10k discount (which I guess is possible).

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17 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Sorry, but if they have to put $10k on the hood to move it, they are in 'giving it away' territory. Unless Ford priced the ST with a 'built in' $10k discount (which I guess is possible).

 

$3250 is not $10K.  Dealers always discount off MSRP and I suspect a lot of those additional discounts are unobtainable.   Ford is only discounting them $3250.

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1 hour ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Not sure about that; anecdotally, Ford seem to be having to give away Edge ST's: https://www.koons.com/new/Ford/2019-Ford-Edge-for-sale-baltimore-washington-dc-e158c8fa0a0e0ae94f85e1af515101d4.htm

 

 

Edge in general suffers from the same problem as other "expensive" Ford models: the MSRPs are crazy high. Ford prices these vehicles thinking they are more premium than they actually are. End result is they and their dealers have to offer massive sales incentives to move them off dealer lots.

 

2019 4-cylinder SEL Edge models are going for about $8,000 under MSRP before any conditional incentives at my local dealership.

https://www.autonationfordfortworth.com/new/Ford/2019-Ford-Edge-7c4c18930a0d0c145fd4ab40073ae163.htm?searchDepth=2:46

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5 hours ago, akirby said:

 

You must be looking at different data or you just don't understand it.

So its best to maintain status quo....i get it.....whats the average age of yota owners compared to ford owers??..

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16 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Edge  Model 3 in general suffers from the same problem as other "expensive" Ford Tesla models: the MSRPs are crazy high. Ford Tesla prices these vehicles thinking they are more premium than they actually are. End result is they and their dealers have to offer massive sales incentives have to rely on government subsidies to move them off dealer lots the inventory rolls.

 

Fixed it right up for ya.....:lol2:

Edited by twintornados

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I'd be really wary of any dealer advertising for pricing-because they add up everything and say hey you can get $10K off when its only $2500 or so.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, snooter said:

So its best to maintain status quo....i get it.....whats the average age of yota owners compared to ford owers??..

 

They aren't trying to maintain "status quo" - they have a ton of new vehicles in development which should appeal to more buyers.

 

What exactly do you think they should do that they aren't already doing?

 

"Fun" vehicles and "younger buyers" sounds like a recipe for cheap cars and low profits.

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23 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Edge in general suffers from the same problem as other "expensive" Ford models: the MSRPs are crazy high. Ford prices these vehicles thinking they are more premium than they actually are. End result is they and their dealers have to offer massive sales incentives to move them off dealer lots.

 

2019 4-cylinder SEL Edge models are going for about $8,000 under MSRP before any conditional incentives at my local dealership.

https://www.autonationfordfortworth.com/new/Ford/2019-Ford-Edge-7c4c18930a0d0c145fd4ab40073ae163.htm?searchDepth=2:46

 

Highlanders are going for $5K under MSRP before incentives.

 

These prices are not that far out of norm in a competitive environment.   Nobody gets MSRP for mainstream midsized crossovers.

 

If anything I'd say Edge incentives are about $1500 higher than normal.

Edited by akirby

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24 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

2019 4-cylinder SEL Edge models are going for about $8,000 under MSRP before any conditional incentives at my local dealership.

https://www.autonationfordfortworth.com/new/Ford/2019-Ford-Edge-7c4c18930a0d0c145fd4ab40073ae163.htm?searchDepth=2:46

 

So an additional $3400 or so from the dealership doesn't set off BS alarms to you? That is basically giving you A plan pricing. 

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45 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

So an additional $3400 or so from the dealership doesn't set off BS alarms to you? That is basically giving you A plan pricing. 

 

He believes everything he reads.   His BS-o-meter is permanently broken.

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1 hour ago, twintornados said:

 

Fixed it right up for ya.....:lol2:

 

As usual, you fixed nothing.

 

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

So an additional $3400 or so from the dealership doesn't set off BS alarms to you? 

 

No sir. That is what's needed to get Ford Edge to sell in the DFW Metroplex. AutoNation Ford Fort Worth has never done any BS with me, pricing or otherwise. I've purchased several cars and trucks used and new from them, including my 2019 Ranger.

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1 minute ago, twintornados said:

 

...and, as usual

 

image.png.044ed382c9e46b436671a8b6da293e94.png

 

I'll return your fish. Enjoy your dinner sir.

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17 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

I'll return your fish. Enjoy your dinner sir.

 

Pass...you sir are the fish....🤣🤣🤣

Edited by twintornados

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12 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

As usual, you fixed nothing.

 

 

No sir. That is what's needed to get Ford Edge to sell in the DFW Metroplex. AutoNation Ford Fort Worth has never done any BS with me, pricing or otherwise. I've purchased several cars and trucks used and new from them, including my 2019 Ranger.

 

The X plan price for the Edge is $32,693 including the $4K incentives.   They're advertising it for $2K less than that and they're showing all of these "conditional" incentives that nobody qualifies for.     That is LESS than A plan employee pricing.  There is no way you walk out of there with that Edge for the advertised price and a reasonable ($100 or less) doc fee.

 

 

 

 

Capture.PNG

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7 hours ago, akirby said:

 

The X plan price for the Edge is $32,693 including the $4K incentives.   They're advertising it for $2K less than that and they're showing all of these "conditional" incentives that nobody qualifies for.     That is LESS than A plan employee pricing.  There is no way you walk out of there with that Edge for the advertised price and a reasonable ($100 or less) doc fee.

 

 

 

 

Capture.PNG

I don’t like when they do that. I find it misleading.  

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Did you hear the latest?  Sorry if I offend any stockholders, but CEO's of companies are finally going to make decisions on what's best for the company, NOT for shareholder value!!  About time!  Ford sold off the aerospace division, the farm tractor biz, and the class 8 heavy truck biz, all for shareholder value!  Now the stock is at $9.00 and the company is an emaciated, emasculated shell.  Very sad!  By the way, New Holland tractor is doing great and Freightliner (Mercedes), who stole the class 8 heavy truck biz from Ford for a measley $300 million (after Ford had completely redeigned it!) and named it Sterling, then dropped it ten years later in 2007,  has about 50 percent of the class 8 biz!  They had to get rid of that pesky Ford in class 8.

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34 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

Did you hear the latest?  Sorry if I offend any stockholders, but CEO's of companies are finally going to make decisions on what's best for the company, NOT for shareholder value!!  About time!  Ford sold off the aerospace division, the farm tractor biz, and the class 8 heavy truck biz, all for shareholder value!  Now the stock is at $9.00 and the company is an emaciated, emasculated shell.  Very sad!  By the way, New Holland tractor is doing great and Freightliner (Mercedes), who stole the class 8 heavy truck biz from Ford for a measley $300 million (after Ford had completely redeigned it!) and named it Sterling, then dropped it ten years later in 2007,  has about 50 percent of the class 8 biz!  They had to get rid of that pesky Ford in class 8.

 

image.png.f67c7d748490f5aa687a83633fd9143c.png

Edited by twintornados

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36 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

Did you hear the latest?  Sorry if I offend any stockholders, but CEO's of companies are finally going to make decisions on what's best for the company, NOT for shareholder value!!  About time!  Ford sold off the aerospace division, the farm tractor biz, and the class 8 heavy truck biz, all for shareholder value!  Now the stock is at $9.00 and the company is an emaciated, emasculated shell.  Very sad!  By the way, New Holland tractor is doing great and Freightliner (Mercedes), who stole the class 8 heavy truck biz from Ford for a measley $300 million (after Ford had completely redeigned it!) and named it Sterling, then dropped it ten years later in 2007,  has about 50 percent of the class 8 biz!  They had to get rid of that pesky Ford in class 8.


Well part of that is that Ford has issued over 3 Billion shares of new stock over that time as well. If Ford hadn't done that the stock would still be at $35+ per share, based on the current divided pay. They have funded things (VEBA, Loan payments) with stock issuance rather than bonds and diluted the shares. The family doesn't care about this as their voting rights remain the same; what Ford needs to do is stop issuing stock and try and slowly buy back the shares they have issued over the past 20 years.

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