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JonathanDP81

UAW extends Ford, Fiat Chrysler pacts; strike possible at GM

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Things at GM are set to get really ugly, really quick. Management is absolutely ill equipped to handle this.

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4 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Things at GM are set to get really ugly, really quick. Management is absolutely ill equipped to handle this.

 

I have my doubts on whether or not UAW management knows what they're doing either. Already in the last 36 hours several very questionable decisions made. 

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I do think GM management blew their wad prematurely by releasing their offer on the able to the public just hours after the strike announcement. Both GM and UAW know that a day or 2 wont hurt the bottom line all that much, that missing production can be made up very quickly. If this were to drag out until Wednesday or Thursday without an agreement, then you have more leverage by releasing that information. Make no mistake, UAW leadership doesn't really care about public opinion and GM should know with the culture being so anti-corporate these days there's no way they come out of this looking good in any way. 

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The UAW may not care about public perception, but if this 3% number is anywhere accurate, I could see a lot of the general public asking what more do they want?

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/13/us-automakers-face-union-deadline-heres-what-could-make-uaw-strike-saturday.html

 

HRG

UAW healthcare.JPG

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It's about way more than just healthcare.

 

Close the gap between the legacy and in-progression workers. My opinion is take 2 years off the progression. A clear path for temps to be brought on full time with seniority. A hard limit on how long someone can be employed as a temp before the company has to make them full time. Those are the biggest issues outside of plant investments. None of that was addressed in the deal GM had on the table. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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12 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

It's about way more than just healthcare.

 

Close the gap between the legacy and in-progression workers. My opinion is take 2 years off the progression. A clear path for temps to be brought on full time with seniority. A hard limit on how long someone can be employed as a temp before the company has to make them full time. Those are the biggest issues outside of plant investments. None of that was addressed in the deal GM had on the table. 

Well for starters, that healthcare gap in this day and age is huge.  If The UAW said...".Leave the healthcare alone, where do we sign?" it would be a good deal.  A good plan is worth over 20g a year- on 2080 paid hrs a year that is like 10 bucks an hour!

 

And as for closing the gap between legacy and progression, that gap IMO is security for every legacy employee and as for the "new hires", they knew what they were getting into.  And every new hire going forward, gives the existing "new hires" more chance of getting to retirement age.  These guys are the ones who will benefit.  What is the current progression schedule for new hires?

 

I started a two tier progression system in my company like 30 years ago.  The union objected and my argument was, it will work as long as there are guys on the outside who want "in" for the better  all around deal.  The minute there is a "better deal", it will no longer work.  If Ford wanted new hires today at the current new hire progression rates, would it have difficulty getting good people?

 

The answer to that question says it all.  And I know all UAW members don't want to face this, but how does everything compare with the  non union Kia/ Hundai etc plants??

 

I look back and I know, my efforts saved a lot of good jobs and got a lot of guys-including then "new hires" to a very nice retirement.

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18 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Things at GM are set to get really ugly, really quick. Management is absolutely ill equipped to handle this.

 

It always seem to me that GM management would talk tough, and even do things to antagonize the union (for example, moving the dies to the full-size pickups in the late 1990s), and then essentially cave during the negotiations.

 

Mary Barra does not strike me as being willing to follow that playbook.

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The biggest issue is that the workers don't trust GM and they don't trust the UAW. The internet has made roomers become truths and misinformation the majority of the information that is available. I suspect the first offer will probably be voted down, with the feds watching the UAW so close it will be very hard to play the games of in the past. 

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1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

What is the current progression schedule for new hires?

 

8 years, but the bigger problem is that new hires are more and more being brought in as temps with no hope of ever being permanent despite promises from both management and the union. 

 

Edit: I found this on Facebook. Explains it much better than I did. Same thing is happening all across the big 3

91FB3439-D07A-4956-B16F-617A0D401AE4.jpeg

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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If she's doing the same work as employees making half her pay, then it sounds like she's way overpaid.

 

It's not about how much the company is making or how much the CEO gets paid the question is what's the market rate for that job?  What would they get paid for the same work at another company/industry?   You can't demand higher than market wages unless your union controls almost all of the industry - like Detroit did back in the 60s and 70s.  Back then it didn't matter if they were overpaid as long as EVERYONE was overpaid the same.  Now it matters because they're competing with non union mfrs and imports.

 

The union knows this - that's why they agreed to tiered jobs and temps, etc.   If they want less temps and higher pay for newer employees they'll have to give up the legacy raises and pay more of their health care costs.   That's just how it works.

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19 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

The UAW may not care about public perception, but if this 3% number is anywhere accurate, I could see a lot of the general public asking what more do they want?

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/13/us-automakers-face-union-deadline-heres-what-could-make-uaw-strike-saturday.html

 

HRG

UAW healthcare.JPG

 

I pay 11% as a government employee.

 

Just as a reference...

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6 hours ago, akirby said:

The union knows this - that's why they agreed to tiered jobs and temps, etc.   If they want less temps and higher pay for newer employees they'll have to give up the legacy raises and pay more of their health care costs.   That's just how it works.

 

But offering .5% raise every year is BS too...at least thats what I've seen 

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Its not like we dont have choices today...i get it with the promises but bottom line is buyers will walk over to yoda and buy there...1960 is long gone...berra might find a backbone with orange man in the house....could get interesting....

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12 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But offering .5% raise every year is BS too...at least thats what I've seen 

 

Depends on whether the current salaries are at, below or above market rates.  I spent many years with token raises of far less than 1% but that's because I was already at the upper end of the market rates.

 

It also depends on what else they got in that particular contract.  At the end of the day there is a bucket of money that both sides agree on then it's a matter of how you split it up.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

 

Depends on whether the current salaries are at, below or above market rates.  I spent many years with token raises of far less than 1% but that's because I was already at the upper end of the market rates.

 

It also depends on what else they got in that particular contract.  At the end of the day there is a bucket of money that both sides agree on then it's a matter of how you split it up.

 

Right, but given what is happening with the company a 1.5 or less raise more or less keeps up with costs of living or benefits going up. There isn't a cut and dry answer for it. 

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So did the extension of Ford/FCA's deal mean they're done?  Or that they're just temporarily extending the deal until they negotiate with GM?

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4 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

So did the extension of Ford/FCA's deal mean they're done?  Or that they're just temporarily extending the deal until they negotiate with GM?

 

Extend it until they’re done with GM. Standard procedure. 

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18 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

Extend it until they’re done with GM. Standard procedure. 

 

Basically use the GM deal as leverage against the other two.

 

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22 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

Extend it until they’re done with GM. Standard procedure. 

 

x2  It's called Pattern Bargaining.

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43 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

Extend it until they’re done with GM. Standard procedure. 

 

That's what I thought.  Just didn't remember in the past the "extended" part.

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32 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

That's what I thought.  Just didn't remember in the past the "extended" part.

 

Yeah. We went last in 2015 so ours was extended well into November by the time the new one finally got finished.

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1 hour ago, Harley Lover said:

 

x2  It's called Pattern Bargaining.  Extortion.

 

FTFY

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32 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

That's what I thought.  Just didn't remember in the past the "extended" part.

 

Yeah. We went last in 2015 so ours was extended well into November by the time the new one finally got finished.

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