tbone Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 5 hours ago, rperez817 said: Problem for Ford was that Focus and Fusion Titanium (other than Hybrid and Energi) were neither cheap nor nice. I disagree with you on it not being nice. I find my Fusion to be every bit as nice as the Accords I’ve been in as well as the Camrys. What hurt the Fusion was the extremely mild refresh it was given with virtually no change on the interior. Otherwise it was still a solid platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 minute ago, tbone said: I disagree with you on it not being nice. I find my Fusion to be every bit as nice as the Accords I’ve been in as well as the Camrys. What hurt the Fusion was the extremely mild refresh it was given with virtually no change on the interior. Otherwise it was still a solid platform. I would even say it's still as good as the Camcords and way better than the Koreans and Nissans. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, rmc523 said: Lol, based on what? Based on the fact it looks like it came out of a jelly mold. Conversely- The Fusion is one great looking automobile. Much better looking than either the Camry or Accord. If you see something in the new Escape that's going to propel it up another 100,000 units ( to catch the market segment leaders)-please share. I don't see it. Edited September 20, 2019 by CKNSLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: Based on the fact it looks like it came out of a jelly mold. Conversely- The Fusion is one great looking automobile. Much better looking than either the Camry or Accord. If you see something in the new Escape that's going to propel it up another 100,000 units ( to catch the market segment leaders)-please share. I don't see it. So does the CRV yet it outsold the old Escape by 100k units. Same for the previous Rav4. So did the old Camry. Dont confuse use your personal preferences with what the general market wants. The extra room will help a lot as will the hybrid power trains. And there is still baby Bronco for you and your friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 40 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: Based on the fact it looks like it came out of a jelly mold. Conversely- The Fusion is one great looking automobile. Much better looking than either the Camry or Accord. If you see something in the new Escape that's going to propel it up another 100,000 units ( to catch the market segment leaders)-please share. I don't see it. I think we'll see an initial jump as people buy the new models, but once baby Bronco comes online, I do think it'll eat into Escape sales resulting in them leveling off, but Ford overall will get a jump overall in the compact segment). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I think we'll see an initial jump as people buy the new models, but once baby Bronco comes online, I do think it'll eat into Escape sales resulting in them leveling off, but Ford overall will get a jump overall in the compact segment). Some people have the misperception that sales leaders as profit cows. Not so long ago Toyota's big Boss was warning that US Camry profits had to improve or he'd look at importing it from outside the US. Now the market seems to be switching from Camry to RAV4 but really, the situation with profit is still pretty thin, all they're doing is multiplying those skinny profit margins across two plants instead of one. Bill Ford is on record as saying that he wants Ford to pursue diverse products rather than heavily committing to one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) So-If I understand both of the replies to my post-you guys think there will be a spike in sales but not 100,000 units. BTW-no one is mentioning profit here, just sales numbers. Is this correct? Does your post(s) imply this answer? I really don't think it's my personal preferences-I just don't think the 2020 Escape is compelling. BTW-the reviewers also came out and criticized the new Equinox-and it's not doing any better than the Escape. Many reviews stated the Equinox is a "rental grade" vehicle. I think GM made the same mistake Ford is making - doing a satisfactory job-instead of "hitting it out of the park" so they (like GM with the Blazer) can make room to "slot in" another model (the Bronco). I'm going to guess right now the new Escape will not sell more than the market leaders. None of you came up with compelling reasons countering that statement. If Mr. Ford wants "product diversification" the effort has to be better. Edited September 20, 2019 by CKNSLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: So-If I understand both of the replies to my post-you guys think there will be a spike in sales but not 100,000 units. BTW-no one is mentioning profit here, just sales numbers. Is this correct? Does your post(s) imply this answer? I really don't think it's my personal preferences-I just don't think the 2020 Escape is compelling. BTW-the reviewers also came out and criticized the new Equinox-and it's not doing any better than the Escape. Many reviews stated the Equinox is a "rental grade" vehicle. I think GM made the same mistake Ford is making - doing a satisfactory job-instead of "hitting it out of the park" so they (like GM with the Blazer) can make room to "slot in" another model (the Bronco). I'm going to guess right now the new Escape will not sell more than the market leaders. None of you came up with compelling reasons countering that statement. If Mr. Ford wants "product diversification" the effort has to be better. Was anyone thinking the escape would sell more then the market leaders? I see the escape remaining number 4. I think the baby bronco will surprise in sales though. It’s the true successor to the 2nd gen escape which so many people liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 The CR-V, Rav4, and Rogue all have multiple plants producing them. Escape has one...that it shares with the Corsair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 2 hours ago, CKNSLS said: So-If I understand both of the replies to my post-you guys think there will be a spike in sales but not 100,000 units. BTW-no one is mentioning profit here, just sales numbers. Is this correct? Does your post(s) imply this answer? I really don't think it's my personal preferences-I just don't think the 2020 Escape is compelling. BTW-the reviewers also came out and criticized the new Equinox-and it's not doing any better than the Escape. Many reviews stated the Equinox is a "rental grade" vehicle. I think GM made the same mistake Ford is making - doing a satisfactory job-instead of "hitting it out of the park" so they (like GM with the Blazer) can make room to "slot in" another model (the Bronco). I'm going to guess right now the new Escape will not sell more than the market leaders. None of you came up with compelling reasons countering that statement. If Mr. Ford wants "product diversification" the effort has to be better. Since when is 300k sales bad? Why does it have to match the others? I think it will be closer to 350k based on the hybrid and PHEV and by stealing some Focus buyers. That’s all they can produce without expanding production. Baby Bronco should add another 50K-75k and it’s built in a different plant. It May or may not pan out but it seems like a good strategy considering the popularity of similarly styled small crossovers in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 16 hours ago, akirby said: Yes better materials, softer leather, push button gear selector. You should really go drive one before deciding. They should be out at the same time as Escape (or within a couple of weeks). While the Escape and Corsair are very different vehicles (gone are the days, thankfully, when FMC took a Ford, added more chrome, wood, leather and a different grille, and called it a Lincoln), they are coming off of the same line and are projected to be out at the same time. Oddly, still no sponsored Corsair "first drive" reviews, and there might not be any for a little bit if Lincoln does what it did with the Aviator and not lift the embargo on those reviews until after dealerships start getting a decent amount of product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 Saw the Corsair and Escape yesterday at the Central Florida Auto Show. They were both not approachable but my friend couldn't believe it was the same platform/vehicle. He loved the Corsair (thought the name was stupid though), and found the Escape to be a bit feminine but did have a hint of Porsche according to him. New Explorer was there, including ST, no Aviator though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 When do Corsair reviews start coming out? I figured it’d be around the same time as the escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 20 hours ago, ANTAUS said: Saw the Corsair and Escape yesterday at the Central Florida Auto Show. They were both not approachable but my friend couldn't believe it was the same platform/vehicle. He loved the Corsair (thought the name was stupid though), and found the Escape to be a bit feminine but did have a hint of Porsche according to him. New Explorer was there, including ST, no Aviator though. Probably because they are not the same vehicle nor are they, in the traditional sense, built on the "same platform." They are both built from the same "flexible architecture", come off the same line, and are similarly sized. Not much else is the same, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 On 9/20/2019 at 6:28 PM, CKNSLS said: So-If I understand both of the replies to my post-you guys think there will be a spike in sales but not 100,000 units. BTW-no one is mentioning profit here, just sales numbers. Is this correct? Does your post(s) imply this answer? I really don't think it's my personal preferences-I just don't think the 2020 Escape is compelling. BTW-the reviewers also came out and criticized the new Equinox-and it's not doing any better than the Escape. Many reviews stated the Equinox is a "rental grade" vehicle. I think GM made the same mistake Ford is making - doing a satisfactory job-instead of "hitting it out of the park" so they (like GM with the Blazer) can make room to "slot in" another model (the Bronco). I'm going to guess right now the new Escape will not sell more than the market leaders. None of you came up with compelling reasons countering that statement. If Mr. Ford wants "product diversification" the effort has to be better. I've found many Chevy products are "rental grade" especially inside. Chevy's love of "rental gray" interior color doesn't help lol. ---- Profits should obviously go up with new models. Especially for baby Bronco, where they'll likely charge a bit more than Escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maegar Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 On 9/22/2019 at 7:38 AM, Gurgeh said: Probably because they are not the same vehicle nor are they, in the traditional sense, built on the "same platform." They are both built from the same "flexible architecture", come off the same line, and are similarly sized. Not much else is the same, though. What are the main differences between the two? Are they major in terms of performance/handling etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, Maegar said: What are the main differences between the two? Are they major in terms of performance/handling etc? Completely different top hat so more differentiation and a 2.3 EB engine you can't get in Escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Completely different top hat so more differentiation and a 2.3 EB engine you can't get in Escape. Not to mention different plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 hours ago, ausrutherford said: Not to mention different plants. They were talking about Corsair & Escape..... but yes, Baby Bronco will be a different plant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 11 hours ago, Maegar said: What are the main differences between the two? Are they major in terms of performance/handling etc? The easier question to answer is what is the same? They both can be gotten with a (differently tuned) 2.0 turbocharged engine, (it is the base on the Corsair and the upgrade on the Escape), but that is about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizuce Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Does the new Escape use an all new 8 speed transmission? Is it the same one that's in the edge/nautilus? I've heard bad reviews saying that edge transmission was a poor modification of the old 6 speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictor Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 As far as I know it has nothing to do with he 6 speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 It's the same one that's in the Edge (8F35). That's the new one designed jointly with GM. The one in the 2.7LEB Edge Sport is an updated 6F55 and yes that one has had some issues although the latest software seems to fix most of them. There have been a few complaints on the 8F35 too but only a couple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, akirby said: It's the same one that's in the Edge (8F35). That's the new one designed jointly with GM. The one in the 2.7LEB Edge Sport is an updated 6F55 and yes that one has had some issues although the latest software seems to fix most of them. There have been a few complaints on the 8F35 too but only a couple. In 3 different vehicles I've driven (2 Sports and 1 Nautilus)The 8F35 sounds likes its going to drop out of the car sometimes when you shift to and from Park/Reverse/Drive. The 8F35 doesn't seem to have that issue. Edited September 24, 2019 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictor Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 35 minutes ago, jasonj80 said: In 3 different vehicles I've driven (2 Sports and 1 Nautilus)The 8F35 sounds likes its going to drop out of the car sometimes when you shift to and from Park/Reverse/Drive. The 8F35 doesn't seem to have that issue. which 8F35, the gm joint project on the modified6 F35, I am confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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