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EV architecture divide automakers


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21 hours ago, AGR said:

Gas pumps run on electricity, so if your neighbor can't charge his EV, you're not getting any gas either. Sure, you can store some gas on your property, but the EV owner can have solar panels to charge his car. Who's going to run out first?

 

Most home solar installations won't work if the grid is down.

 

Unless you have a generator, but then again you need fuel for your generator.

 

Of course, some have battery storage, but those are few and far between.

 

So, in reality, if the grid is down, solar panels are just expensive shiny things.

Edited by fordmantpw
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1 hour ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Most home solar installations won't work if the grid is down.

 

Unless you have a generator, but then again you need fuel for your generator.

 

Of course, some have battery storage, but those are few and far between.

 

So, in reality, if the grid is down, solar panels are just expensive shiny things.

That is correct.  However, it is an easy fix if grid going down is a real concern - besides having a generator.  Adding a Tesla wall battery or other brand I suspect,  will keep your solar "live" should the power go out.

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9 hours ago, msm859 said:

That is correct.  However, it is an easy fix if grid going down is a real concern - besides having a generator.  Adding a Tesla wall battery or other brand I suspect,  will keep your solar "live" should the power go out.

 

Easy if you have an extra $5k laying around.  But, as I mentioned, most home solar systems don't have that.

 

Plus, we were referring to the edge case where there is a catastrophe.  Most solar users don't have solar for that prep, but have solar to lower their home energy costs.  I'm one of those with 11.7kW of solar.  If/when we get an electric car some day, I'm going to look at adding another couple kW if I can find a place to put it.

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20 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Easy if you have an extra $5k laying around.  But, as I mentioned, most home solar systems don't have that.

 

Plus, we were referring to the edge case where there is a catastrophe.  Most solar users don't have solar for that prep, but have solar to lower their home energy costs.  I'm one of those with 11.7kW of solar.  If/when we get an electric car some day, I'm going to look at adding another couple kW if I can find a place to put it.

Agreed.  May depend where you live.  I don't really have to worry about losing power.  I suspect if I lived someplace that it was a real concern, I would invest in the battery backup.

 I have @11kW system and am maxed out.  I have my garage wired for 2 separate 50 amp plugs for future plug in something - not if but when. 

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11 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Most home solar installations won't work if the grid is down.

 

Unless you have a generator, but then again you need fuel for your generator.

 

Depends on your state-I know in FL you can't use your solar as a standalone system because the power company thinks it will leakback down the line when power does come back on, but I know NJ you can use it to power your home during the day.

 

Yes, Generators need fuel, but I know in my area we have extensive natural gas infrastructure which is used for generators-so short of a gas leak, you should still have power.

 

but then again between the two of them your looking at a 30-50K investment

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Has anyone done PHEV or BEV charger in the their garage? What was involved with it?

 

I'm going to have some electrical work that involves adding some power points to my garage (some how it passed inspection with the garage door openers using low voltage extension cords run to them!) and they have to drill through my basement for the new service to the garage-might as well tell them to leave some extra room for charging points down the road when I ever do that. 

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6 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Has anyone done PHEV or BEV charger in the their garage? What was involved with it?

 

I'm going to have some electrical work that involves adding some power points to my garage (some how it passed inspection with the garage door openers using low voltage extension cords run to them!) and they have to drill through my basement for the new service to the garage-might as well tell them to leave some extra room for charging points down the road when I ever do that. 

 

Have them run a 240v 40 amp line to where you think you’ll want the charger.  Appears 40 amps is the high end for level 2 chargers.

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25 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Depends on your state-I know in FL you can't use your solar as a standalone system because the power company thinks it will leakback down the line when power does come back on, but I know NJ you can use it to power your home during the day.

 

It's not that it will leak back when the power comes on, it's that the power can backfeed when the line is dead, and zap a worker who thinks the line is dead.  That's the issue, but the issue is the same for generators.  That's why they need a cutover switch.

 

26 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Yes, Generators need fuel, but I know in my area we have extensive natural gas infrastructure which is used for generators-so short of a gas leak, you should still have power.

 

but then again between the two of them your looking at a 30-50K investment

 

No natural gas here, but propane is an option.  But still, it's limited.  And yes, the cost is a huge drawback.  That's a lot of expense on top of an already expensive solar system.

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25 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Has anyone done PHEV or BEV charger in the their garage? What was involved with it?

 

I'm going to have some electrical work that involves adding some power points to my garage (some how it passed inspection with the garage door openers using low voltage extension cords run to them!) and they have to drill through my basement for the new service to the garage-might as well tell them to leave some extra room for charging points down the road when I ever do that. 

 

15 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Have them run a 240v 40 amp line to where you think you’ll want the charger.  Appears 40 amps is the high end for level 2 chargers.

 

I would have them run 2 while they are at it.  Size the wire for 50 amp just in case, but you can put a 40 amp breaker in.

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25 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

It's not that it will leak back when the power comes on, it's that the power can backfeed when the line is dead, and zap a worker who thinks the line is dead.  That's the issue, but the issue is the same for generators.  That's why they need a cutover switch.

 

 

Excellent point. During a power outage a while back, I had a lineman knock on the door, and wanted to confirm that the generator I had running was not back-feeding into my panel. I invited him in, showed him that appliances were using extension cords direct to the genny, and thanked him for his efforts in restoring the power.

 

HRG

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4 hours ago, akirby said:

 

Have them run a 240v 40 amp line to where you think you’ll want the charger.  Appears 40 amps is the high end for level 2 chargers.

 

Are consumers going to be allowed to install level 3 chargers? These 300 mile range EV's would be better serviced with a level 3 charger if there is a choice.

I've got a level 2 in my garage; expect conduit to be run to your end point (metal in my case); also - try to place it such that the charger cord could at least reach inside or outside the garage to your vehicle, giving you more parking options.

 

Edit: this appears to be a level 3, calls for a 100 amp circuit:  https://evcharging.enelx.com/store/residential/juicebox-pro-75-smart-75-amp-evse-with-24-foot-cable?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiMzu_prv5AIVCI_ICh2zjwNUEAQYAiABEgLCkfD_BwE

Edited by Harley Lover
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1 hour ago, akirby said:

I don't know if it's legal but I don't think 100 amp chargers would be feasible in most homes.

 

Wouldn't a level 2 be sufficient for overnight charging even for 300 mile range vehicles?  That's the benefit of home charging.

 

IIRC the 300 mile range batteries are supposed to take around 12 hours (I think) on a level 2 charger. That's not too bad, but if I had the choice, I'd go with a level 3 and cut that charging time down significantly. I guess the other factor to consider with the shorter charging time of a level 3 would be the presumed opportunity to take advantage of the lowest utility rates, which supposedly are somewhere between midnight and 6 am (depending on location). The longer charging time of the level 2 would negate that opportunity (for a full charge).

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47 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

IIRC the 300 mile range batteries are supposed to take around 12 hours (I think) on a level 2 charger. That's not too bad, but if I had the choice, I'd go with a level 3 and cut that charging time down significantly. I guess the other factor to consider with the shorter charging time of a level 3 would be the presumed opportunity to take advantage of the lowest utility rates, which supposedly are somewhere between midnight and 6 am (depending on location). The longer charging time of the level 2 would negate that opportunity (for a full charge).

 

If it actually draws close to 100 amps I would be concerned in a house with 200 amp service.  Even overnight the A/C and refrigerator would be running.  Might need to upgrade to 300 or 400 amp service,  But I agree it would be nice,

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20 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

If it actually draws close to 100 amps I would be concerned in a house with 200 amp service.  Even overnight the A/C and refrigerator would be running.  Might need to upgrade to 300 or 400 amp service,  But I agree it would be nice,

  

Agree, I don't think most current homes will be wired for this, but it might be worth it if making the commitment to the upgrade if purchasing an EV with kind of range.

Edited by Harley Lover
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5 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Are consumers going to be allowed to install level 3 chargers? These 300 mile range EV's would be better serviced with a level 3 charger if there is a choice.

I've got a level 2 in my garage; expect conduit to be run to your end point (metal in my case); also - try to place it such that the charger cord could at least reach inside or outside the garage to your vehicle, giving you more parking options.

 

Edit: this appears to be a level 3, calls for a 100 amp circuit:  https://evcharging.enelx.com/store/residential/juicebox-pro-75-smart-75-amp-evse-with-24-foot-cable?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiMzu_prv5AIVCI_ICh2zjwNUEAQYAiABEgLCkfD_BwE

 

The link you provided says “Smart 75-Amp EV Charging Station (Level 2 EVSE) with 24-foot cable and Input Whip for Hardwire Installation”.  It doesn’t appear to be Level 3.

 

i thought I read somewhere that you needed 480w 3 phase power for a Level 3 charger.  I’m not an electrician so someone correct me if I’m wrong. 

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12 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

 

 

I would have them run 2 while they are at it.  Size the wire for 50 amp just in case, but you can put a 40 amp breaker in.

Agreed.  I finished my garage and have 2 separate 50 amp circuits.  I ran one to a 14-50 plug and the other to hang a charger off the ceiling.  Technically I used wire large enough to use 60 amp breakers.  Remember, that for a continuous load you have to deduct 20%.  Thus, a 40 amp breaker can only charge at 32 amps.  Level 2 should be totally fine 99% of the time. 40 amps should give you @25 miles per hour.  How many miles does one typically drive every day?  You are "topping" off every night so actual charging won't be that long.

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6 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

IIRC the 300 mile range batteries are supposed to take around 12 hours (I think) on a level 2 charger. That's not too bad, but if I had the choice, I'd go with a level 3 and cut that charging time down significantly. I guess the other factor to consider with the shorter charging time of a level 3 would be the presumed opportunity to take advantage of the lowest utility rates, which supposedly are somewhere between midnight and 6 am (depending on location). The longer charging time of the level 2 would negate that opportunity (for a full charge).

Or you could buy a Tesla S or X and get free supercharging and 50% charge in @20 minutes

 

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7 hours ago, msm859 said:

Or you could buy a Tesla S or X and get free supercharging and 50% charge in @20 minutes

 

 

I'll take a Ford and pay for my own charger, thanks.  Part of the point of a BEV is that fact that you don't have to stop for fuel.  You fuel up at home and don't have to waste the time waiting for it to fuel up.

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