fuzzymoomoo Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 24 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: That's because they have transmissions and tuning that can affect them. BEVs for the most part are direct drive and don't act like ICE-1 RPM gives you full torque output on a electric motor vs a gas engine It could work though. The switch could just tell the computer how to utilize the battery for max power or efficiency or whatever. I'm probably explaining it really bad but I have the idea thought through in my head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: It could work though. The switch could just tell the computer how to utilize the battery for max power or efficiency or whatever. I'm probably explaining it really bad but I have the idea thought through in my head I'm not sure how much of an improvement you'd really get-its just like people bitching about "insane" power levels that ICE engines have-alot of that is due to improved efficiency of the engine and transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Just now, silvrsvt said: I'm not sure how much of an improvement you'd really get-its just like people bitching about "insane" power levels that ICE engines have-alot of that is due to improved efficiency of the engine and transmission. You'd really just be changing the acceleration response and maybe the regenerative braking. Now if you had multiple motors you could change a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, akirby said: You'd really just be changing the acceleration response and maybe the regenerative braking. Now if you had multiple motors you could change a lot. From the way I understand it- you can technically drive a BEV with one foot-no power applied the motors means they would brake the car like brake pads would. Not sure how much regeneration you get that way. https://jalopnik.com/the-truth-about-brake-pad-replacement-in-teslas-and-oth-1831591519 Edited October 7, 2019 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: From the way I understand it- you can technically drive a BEV with one foot-no power applied the motors means they would brake the car like brake pads would. Not sure how much regeneration you get that way. https://jalopnik.com/the-truth-about-brake-pad-replacement-in-teslas-and-oth-1831591519 That's just regenerative braking. If you let the motor turn on its own due to the vehicles kinetic energy it generates electricity and stores it back in the battery (the opposite of what happens when you press the accelerator). However, I assume there is some freewheeling if you take your foot off the gas but don't touch the brake pedal. That would seem counterproductive not to freewheel and coast. But when you touch the brakes it will be mostly regenerative up until the point it needs assist from the brake pads like a panic stop. It's really no different than engine braking in an ICE except you're recovering the lost energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novanglus Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Deanh said: doesn't Porsches new BEV have a two speed trans?... Yes, but even with an amazingly low Cd, it’s range still isn’t that great (260-270mi EPA)...it can’t touch a standard single-speed Model S (370mi EPA). The next S should be in the 400+ range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novanglus Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 45 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: From the way I understand it- you can technically drive a BEV with one foot-no power applied the motors means they would brake the car like brake pads would. Not sure how much regeneration you get that way. https://jalopnik.com/the-truth-about-brake-pad-replacement-in-teslas-and-oth-1831591519 ...I essentially drive one foot in mine. It becomes very natural after a day or two behind the wheel. Really maxes out the regen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 38 minutes ago, akirby said: That's just regenerative braking. If you let the motor turn on its own due to the vehicles kinetic energy it generates electricity and stores it back in the battery (the opposite of what happens when you press the accelerator). However, I assume there is some freewheeling if you take your foot off the gas but don't touch the brake pedal. That would seem counterproductive not to freewheel and coast. But when you touch the brakes it will be mostly regenerative up until the point it needs assist from the brake pads like a panic stop. It's really no different than engine braking in an ICE except you're recovering the lost energy. I know in the Teslas (at least the Model X I drove), you can change it between a sort of "traditional" setting where it'll act like a normal car and coast to a stop, or you can have it in a sort of "heavy" regen mode where you don't even need to use the brakes, it'll bring you to a stop fairly quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Deanh said: feel for you, especially when things are exciting...embargos suck for us curious ones...but necessary so as "bombshells" actually achieve the impact Fords wants...due to leaks, so many have fizzled by release dates....let alone competitors get insight before release. All of the Detroit Three manufacturers test vehicles in northern Michigan. I've lost count of the number of camo'd vehicles I've seen. Several years back when GM brought out the then-new Impala, an entire fleet of test vehicles (and competitors) drove down the road right in front of our house (which is in the country). I keep hoping that Ford will bring a fleet of Broncos up to northern Michigan on a test run. Alas, so far, nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 hour ago, novanglus said: Yes, but even with an amazingly low Cd, it’s range still isn’t that great (260-270mi EPA)...it can’t touch a standard single-speed Model S (370mi EPA). The next S should be in the 400+ range. If I remember correctly, the two speed trans in the Porsche is to get a higher top speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novanglus Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, CurtisH said: If I remember correctly, the two speed trans in the Porsche is to get a higher top speed. If that’s the case, it didn’t do much. Tesla is 162-163, I think Porsche claims the same for theirs, though someone claimed to hit 167 on the autobahn, but I don’t know if that was real or down-hill wind at the back and speedo error. Tesla claims 250+ for the Roadster. I don’t know how they’re planning on hitting that. It would have to have a transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: That's because they have transmissions and tuning that can affect them. BEVs for the most part are direct drive and don't act like ICE-1 RPM gives you full torque output on a electric motor vs a gas engine So the throttle is all-go or no-go? That's what you're suggesting. 100% torque all the time. That just isn't true. The throttle can be programmed with limits such as max 50% torque output in Eco mode. DC electric subway trains have have adjustable throttles since 19th century. It can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 39 minutes ago, J-150 said: So the throttle is all-go or no-go? That's what you're suggesting. 100% torque all the time. That just isn't true. The throttle can be programmed with limits such as max 50% torque output in Eco mode. DC electric subway trains have have adjustable throttles since 19th century. It can be done. Yes, if your not applying the accelerator-your getting regenerative braking from the motor slowing the car down. Going by the graph above, applying less power will make the motor less efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 12 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Yes, if your not applying the accelerator-your getting regenerative braking from the motor slowing the car down. Going by the graph above, applying less power will make the motor less efficient. 100% or nothing. Got it. But given the level of tech available in the auto industry alone, not including tech available elsewhere, i dont believe for one minute it cant be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 20 hours ago, novanglus said: If that’s the case, it didn’t do much. Tesla is 162-163, I think Porsche claims the same for theirs, though someone claimed to hit 167 on the autobahn, but I don’t know if that was real or down-hill wind at the back and speedo error. Tesla claims 250+ for the Roadster. I don’t know how they’re planning on hitting that. It would have to have a transmission. Tesla makes an awful lot of claims...so the award for the biggest grain of salt gos to...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 7 hours ago, J-150 said: 100% or nothing. Got it. But given the level of tech available in the auto industry alone, not including tech available elsewhere, i dont believe for one minute it cant be done. Cordless tools have variable speeds. It’s not that difficult. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, akirby said: Cordless tools have variable speeds. It’s not that difficult. That isn't the point-Operating a electric motor at a lower speed isn't the same as operating an ICE at a lower speed (aka RPMs) because the ICE is using a fuel to power it. A DC Motor uses the same amount of power (current) when it operates, no matter the speed...at least thats how I understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 28 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: That isn't the point-Operating a electric motor at a lower speed isn't the same as operating an ICE at a lower speed (aka RPMs) because the ICE is using a fuel to power it. A DC Motor uses the same amount of power (current) when it operates, no matter the speed...at least thats how I understand it. Isn't it amperage that regulates the speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Isn't it amperage that regulates the speed? Ok I found this-electric car 101 https://auto.howstuffworks.com/electric-car2.htm The battery pack provides power to a DC controller that pulses the power to the motor to control it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I believe that would be called pulse width modulation... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 On 10/8/2019 at 9:10 AM, silvrsvt said: Yes, if your not applying the accelerator-your getting regenerative braking from the motor slowing the car down. Going by the graph above, applying less power will make the motor less efficient. But don’t they use A/C traction motors to make drive and regen a lot more efficient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: But don’t they use A/C traction motors to make drive and regen a lot more efficient? Depends on application- https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/11/tesla-model-3-motor-in-depth/ https://www.tesla.com/blog/induction-versus-dc-brushless-motors Battery power is DC AC power is normally generated by a generator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Depends on application- https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/11/tesla-model-3-motor-in-depth/ https://www.tesla.com/blog/induction-versus-dc-brushless-motors Battery power is DC AC power is normally generated by a generator Until the Tesla 3, Tesla used A/C traction motors, they went DC permanent magnet for the 3 to lower costs I’m hoping that Ford is on their game with Mach E and turns Tesla on its head Edited October 9, 2019 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novanglus Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 On 10/8/2019 at 2:12 PM, Deanh said: Tesla makes an awful lot of claims...so the award for the biggest grain of salt gos to...... ... well, I drive a 300mi range AWD performance sedan that goes from 0-60 in 3.2s that only cost $56k. As far as I know, Tesla is the only one currently making anything remotely close to that. Porsche will, for only $100k more...next year...except for the range. Tesla deserves a little respect in that regard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novanglus Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 20 hours ago, jpd80 said: Until the Tesla 3, Tesla used A/C traction motors, they went DC permanent magnet for the 3 to lower costs I’m hoping that Ford is on their game with Mach E and turns Tesla on its head ...1-switched reluctance, partial permanent magnet motor and 1-AC, actually, on the 3P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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