jpd80 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, ice-capades said: The simple answer is to look at the Limited's standard equipment in addition to the XLT's 202A content. I've attached the appropriate page from the 2020 Explorer Order Guide. The major additional content is the addition of the 20" Premium Painted Aluminum Wheels, Ford Co-Pilot360 Assist+ (Adaptive Cruise Control, Voice-Activated Navigation). 2020 Explorer 4-Door Order Guide_Limited vs. XLT.pdf Thanks for that, When you select Copilot 360 Assist, the configurator advises that selection must include 202A and the 20"painted wheels but you only get 202A's 8-way seat adjust with Active X seating....All for an extra $6,230 so the XLT is now $43,995 which is what most would expect to pay for a Limited. I get it sorta, I just think Ford has a fair bit of fat on those prices. A better question is how are your buyers receiving prices and options, if they are mostly OK with it then I guess Ford is right on the money Edited October 13, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 There's a real interesting dealer mix going on nation wide, Base.....................21 (AWD - 11/ RWD - 10) XLT.................10,991 (AWD - 7,348/ RWD - 3,643) Limited............5,698 (AWD - 3,271/ RWD - 2,427) ST....................4,617 (AWD - 4,617) Platinum.........4,049 (AWD - 4,049) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I think they’re trying premium pricing. Guess we’ll see if it works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, akirby said: I think they’re trying premium pricing. Guess we’ll see if it works. I guess so, my concerns about pricing could be at odds with what actual buyers perceive as good value. and even if the pricing is a bit high, Ford can always throw some incentives at the higher models...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshrop Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Good comparison article, my wife really likes the Telluride, we have 4 Fords and one Kia Sportage(hers)! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlcorbett Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 https://www.motortrend.com/cars/kia/telluride/2020/2020-ford-explorer-vs-2020-kia-telluride-three-row-suv-comparison/ Has the explorer won any comparison tests? I dnt think this is biased as motortrend also compared the aviator to the xt6 and said it was a bad comparo, the xt6 wasnt nearly good enough. The pricing strategy that ford has is unfortunatley wrong. They are using the premium euro brand strat, hike up the prices over their Asian competitors, thrn charge the consumer for their std features. Then add more "pamper" features that they dnt offer, but offer less user friendly tech features like 3rd row speakers, to justify the 10k premium. Theres a cpl big issues, though the starting price seems competitive, when you add the features that thr bulk of the consumers want, it drives the price to the next trim level, which starts a cycle where you inevitably pay way more than you wanted to get the stuff you wanted in the ford where it was 5k or so less in the competitor. Then, after you get that car for so much more, you realize that you were charged a premium, but the build quality and subsequent service doesnt match the premium. Thats fords biggest problem, their cars dont feel the price. Its easier with the pickups and expy/navi twins because the product stands on it own with less competitors(who use the same strat nonetheless), but the mid size crossover game a completely diff animal. I think this is why euros only offer premium choices. Vw can get away with the atlas because the q7 exists. Just my 2 cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 51 minutes ago, Dlcorbett said: Vw can get away with the atlas because the q7 exists. Just my 2 cents. Well to be fair they are on completely different architectures. Atlas is MQB and Q7 is MLB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Dlcorbett said: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/kia/telluride/2020/2020-ford-explorer-vs-2020-kia-telluride-three-row-suv-comparison/ Has the explorer won any comparison tests? I dnt think this is biased as motortrend also compared the aviator to the xt6 and said it was a bad comparo, the xt6 wasnt nearly good enough. The pricing strategy that ford has is unfortunatley wrong. They are using the premium euro brand strat, hike up the prices over their Asian competitors, thrn charge the consumer for their std features. Then add more "pamper" features that they dnt offer, but offer less user friendly tech features like 3rd row speakers, to justify the 10k premium. Theres a cpl big issues, though the starting price seems competitive, when you add the features that thr bulk of the consumers want, it drives the price to the next trim level, which starts a cycle where you inevitably pay way more than you wanted to get the stuff you wanted in the ford where it was 5k or so less in the competitor. Then, after you get that car for so much more, you realize that you were charged a premium, but the build quality and subsequent service doesnt match the premium. Thats fords biggest problem, their cars dont feel the price. Its easier with the pickups and expy/navi twins because the product stands on it own with less competitors(who use the same strat nonetheless), but the mid size crossover game a completely diff animal. I think this is why euros only offer premium choices. Vw can get away with the atlas because the q7 exists. Just my 2 cents. Sounds like they cut a few corners on the interior but it's probably not as bad as the reviews and people named Perez make it out to be. I think they went upscale on the Telluride because they don't have a premium stable mate like Aviator. It will be more interesting to see the comparisons to the others in the class. I'd also like to see the price comparisons to the others to see if Kia is lowballing Telluride. If Explorer Platinum and Limited are significantly higher than the competition then that might be a problem. Seems like a gamble. Maybe it pays off. The most concerning thing to me (other than the high trim pricing) is the complaints about ride and handling. CD6 should be providing better handling than the FWD competition and they should have good ride quality to go with it. If you're going to charge a premium you better have premium ride and handling. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, akirby said: If you're going to charge a premium you better have premium ride and handling. Not to mention premium powertrain smoothness, premium interior quality & design, and premium feature set. All of which 2020 Ford Explorer with 2.3L engine lacks. Seems that Ford is banking on the highly recognized and respected name "Explorer". Remains to be seen if enough Ford loyalists in the market for a new SUV will snap up the new Explorer rather than defecting to Kia Telluride or another model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Not to mention premium powertrain smoothness All of which 2020 Ford Explorer with 2.3L engine lacks. Only you and Car and Driver complained about the powertrain. All other reviews said it was good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, akirby said: Only you and Car and Driver complained about the powertrain. All other reviews said it was good. Agreed. I have the 2.3L Ecoboost in my Mustang. They could work on improving the sound. Otherwise, I have no complaints. I suspect the Explorer interior is quieter, so sound should be less of an issue. FYI: In the Mustang’s case, it seems that the active exhaust improves the sound considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Edge Titanium ($38K) and the ST ($43K) are starting to look like really good value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Edge Titanium ($38K) and the ST ($43K) are starting to look like really good value. It also helps open up the pricing on the bottom too..the Escape Ti is about 5K cheaper then the Edge...so Ford can fit more affordable products under it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlcorbett Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a29516727/new-3-row-suvs-compared/ Im guessing its to keep price down, but every reviewer compares the xlt trim to top level competitors, then gets destroyed for its interior. Though its not good for them to keep comparing the "everyman" trim to the others premium trims, its bad on ford to make their premium trim almost 20k more than the others. Its also now being dinged for giving a trucky, busy ride as well. Idk if this is just the xlt trim, but i can't imagine the ride getting better with bigger wheels. Its the first new model yr, so maybe ford will fix these issues, but ford rele hasnt fixed the complaints with the expy yet so idk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I think it's a fair comparison if the prices are relatively close. However, I'm not sure they should be that close. Quote The South Korean government is propping up Hyundai and Kia. How else can you explain how good these two are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Dlcorbett said: Its the first new model yr, so maybe ford will fix these issues, but ford rele hasnt fixed the complaints with the expy yet so idk? I wouldn't count on it. Bloomberg said that some workers at Chicago Assembly Plant are harassing and intimidating other workers, resulting in defect plauged Explorers and Aviators needing repairs at dealerships or at the Flat Rock plant. And that's just assembly quality issues. The engineering and design issues in new Explorer probably won't be addressed until the next refresh. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-21/ford-botches-explorer-launch-putting-ceo-back-on-the-hot-seat "Roving groups of workers are intimidating other employees, creating a hostile environment, the people said. That’s driving up turnover and leaving some vehicle assembly unfinished, contributing to the company having to complete the work at the Michigan factory or at dealerships, the people said." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) I wouldn't get too excited by what Bloomberg has to say on this matter, they are simply conflating two separate issues with this plant to draw a conclusion, much of which is historical and not current. People who don't understand the auto industry somehow think all the problems happen on the assembly line and not the countless other complicated vectors. The Assembly line workers are basically responsible for making sure everything fits together right, the rest is up to the automotive and plant engineers. Factories are engineered to reduce human error to a minimum. Edited October 21, 2019 by Assimilator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 56 minutes ago, rperez817 said: I wouldn't count on it. Bloomberg said that some workers at Chicago Assembly Plant are harassing and intimidating other workers, resulting in defect plauged Explorers and Aviators needing repairs at dealerships or at the Flat Rock plant. And that's just assembly quality issues. The engineering and design issues in new Explorer probably won't be addressed until the next refresh. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-21/ford-botches-explorer-launch-putting-ceo-back-on-the-hot-seat "Roving groups of workers are intimidating other employees, creating a hostile environment, the people said. That’s driving up turnover and leaving some vehicle assembly unfinished, contributing to the company having to complete the work at the Michigan factory or at dealerships, the people said." Sounds like Bullshit... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Sounds like Bullshit... The toleration of which is firmly part of Ford's corporate culture. The BS is not limited to specific assembly plants. Jim Hackett has a huge undertaking in transforming that culture for the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, akirby said: I think it's a fair comparison if the prices are relatively close. However, I'm not sure they should be that close. I have seen so many new Kia Tellurides in my area-quite frankly I have lost count. I have heard if you want a top-of-the line model you are going to wait 30 to 90 days for one. But they are VERY POPULAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: But they are VERY POPULAR. Easy to do if you're underpricing the market by $5K -$10K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, akirby said: Easy to do if you're underpricing the market by $5K -$10K. Pretty sure the South Korean's aren't seeing $11K signing bonuses,,,,, HRG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 22 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: I have seen so many new Kia Tellurides in my area-quite frankly I have lost count. I have heard if you want a top-of-the line model you are going to wait 30 to 90 days for one. But they are VERY POPULAR. I've been seeing alot of them also-I used to not be able to swing a dead cat and not see a GMC Terrian last year. I think part of it has to do with its styling-it sticks out more then what has been on the road. The Hyundai is ugly vs the Telluride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 My only problem with the Car and Driver comparo is that that the was 49k. At that point why not use a base Explorer Limited? Fully loaded Koreans or XLT Explorer just seems at little off. Also, why wasn't a Honda or Toyota in here? It just seems the Korean twins have the price beat on everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: My only problem with the Car and Driver comparo is that that the was 49k. At that point why not use a base Explorer Limited? Fully loaded Koreans or XLT Explorer just seems at little off. Also, why wasn't a Honda or Toyota in here? It just seems the Korean twins have the price beat on everything. Like I just said, I'm wondering how much of market buying is going on with lower pricing and buying advertising from the media.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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