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Deafsoundguy

Black Label availability

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11 minutes ago, Deafsoundguy said:

Oh I forgot! So while questioning the wisdom of placing the smaller 2.0 engine in BL models where you want it to be your top shelf car, apparently the folks at Lincoln now feel the same way. I was told that for MY 2020, the BL Nautilus will only be available with a 2.7. So there you have it. 🤓

 

According to the 2020 order guide that is correct.

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Deaf, congratulations to you and your wife. I also have the Thoroughbred theme in my Nautilus and love it. It got something right that a lot of interiors miss. A great seat color is nice, but when you are in your car you don't see them as you're sitting on them. But with Thoroughbred you see that sweep of rich brown leather oozing across the dash and down the center arm rest. Very striking with the black interior accents and headliner. 

 

As for the engine, my final cross shop was the 2.7 Nautilus and Range Rover Velar with the same 3.0 supercharged engine your wife would have had in her F-Pace. They mirror each other. The F-Pace engine has 380hp/340 torque. The Nautilus has 340 hp/380 torque. I really like the torquiness of the Nautilus' twin turbo and have never experienced any turbo lag.

 

The odd thing about that JLR 3.0 is that it was originally designed as a V8 (by Ford!) and in the F-Pace/Velar it still has all eight bores, but with two cylinders never built out. Adds a little unnecessary weight, but otherwise just an oddity that struck me. It is still a fine engine.

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1 hour ago, Gurgeh said:

The odd thing about that JLR 3.0 is that it was originally designed as a V8 (by Ford!) and in the F-Pace/Velar it still has all eight bores, but with two cylinders never built out. Adds a little unnecessary weight, but otherwise just an oddity that struck me. It is still a fine engine.

 

It is based on the AJ V8 but I'm pretty sure that's a Jaguar design not Ford.   Ford used a 3.9L version of the 4.0L AJ V8 in the Lincoln LS and it was a fine engine.  Not a lot of power but silky smooth.  Jag used a Duratec Ford V6 in the S type for a few years but that's a different engine altogether.

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23 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

It is based on the AJ V8 but I'm pretty sure that's a Jaguar design not Ford.   Ford used a 3.9L version of the 4.0L AJ V8 in the Lincoln LS and it was a fine engine.  Not a lot of power but silky smooth.  Jag used a Duratec Ford V6 in the S type for a few years but that's a different engine altogether.

Thanks for the correction and elaboration. I must have misremembered from the research I did a year and a bit ago on the Velar.

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I saw a white Velar this morning so close to what we're going to do, which is white with the black wheels. It is stunning. However, while the Velar interiors are nice, they don't ooze the quality level of the Black Label. I have sat in the Velar a few times. I also had a new LR Discovery sport as a loaner a few months back, and while quiet and nice, there's just no ooh-ah that raises the flagpole. Kinda boring, like it's just a nice machine to get me to one place from another. With the BL, I just get another level of enjoyment out of the leather, at least being in the one the dealer had. And the Nautilus just has a fatter cushier feel that we both enjoyed. Not for everyone like corner divers, but definitely for me and it won my wife over who is a hardcore Jag fan.

 

Our lovely FPace went on Cargurus just a few hours ago.... 🤑

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I'm definitely of the belief that Black Label should be reserved for only the maxed out configurations.  When you buy Black Label, the only thing you should have to select is the theme.   The only thing I don't want standard is Trailer Tow, and if there are exotic powertrains like PHEV.  AWD should also be standard on BL.   The fact you can buy cheaper BL vehicles than Reserve makes no sense and diminishes the sub-brand while increasing costs to the dealer and diluting the value of exclusivity.  I think they are starting to fix this now and scaling back BL to only certain high-end vehicles. I bought a fully-loaded BL Nautilus and love it.

Edited by Assimilator

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22 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

I'm definitely of the belief that Black Label should be reserved for only the maxed out configurations.  When you buy Black Label, the only thing you should have to select is the theme.   The only thing I don't want standard is Trailer Tow, and if there are exotic powertrains like PHEV.  AWD should also be standard on BL.   The fact you can buy cheaper BL vehicles than Reserve makes no sense and diminishes the sub-brand while increasing costs to the dealer and diluting the value of exclusivity.  I think they are starting to fix this now and scaling back BL to only certain high-end vehicles. I bought a fully-loaded BL Nautilus and love it.

 

I'm with you - BL should be the pinnacle of the brand.  Have it come with everything and you just pick a theme and exterior color.

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21 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

I'm definitely of the belief that Black Label should be reserved for only the maxed out configurations.  When you buy Black Label, the only thing you should have to select is the theme.   The only thing I don't want standard is Trailer Tow, and if there are exotic powertrains like PHEV.  AWD should also be standard on BL.   The fact you can buy cheaper BL vehicles than Reserve makes no sense and diminishes the sub-brand while increasing costs to the dealer and diluting the value of exclusivity.  I think they are starting to fix this now and scaling back BL to only certain high-end vehicles. I bought a fully-loaded BL Nautilus and love it.

I believe the "nicest" vehicle should always include the option to have the most fuel efficient engine. Go ahead and max out everything else. But why should someone who wants to limit their carbon footprint not be entitled to the most luxurious interior?

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I think that's a small clientele in this case, probably why the option was discontinued for 2020.  It also helps that the 2.7L EB has seen significant improvements with the new 8-Speed.  I gained 3MPG avg over my 2018 MKX, also thanks to the new decoupling AWD system.  Although I have to say my Nautilus feels less spirited with that new transmission, and Sport mode is intolerably rough. 

 

...Actually I have allot to say about that 8-Spd, it has strengths and drawbacks, but it's the most unhappy transmission I've had in awhile.  

Edited by Assimilator

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17 hours ago, msm859 said:

I believe the "nicest" vehicle should always include the option to have the most fuel efficient engine. Go ahead and max out everything else. But why should someone who wants to limit their carbon footprint not be entitled to the most luxurious interior?


The EPA says Nautilus the 2.7L is more fuel efficient than the 2.0L, on the highway (26 vs 25), and the 2.0L is more than the 2.7L in the city. (19 vs 20). So its really a wash in this vehicle

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6 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:


The EPA says Nautilus the 2.7L is more fuel efficient than the 2.0L, on the highway (26 vs 25), and the 2.0L is more than the 2.7L in the city. (19 vs 20). So its really a wash in this vehicle

 

I can validate that in my 3.5LEB F150 vs. my old 2.0L Fusion and 3.7L MkX.  The larger EB engines are finally delivering the promised fuel economy improvements.  8 and 10 speed transmissions are also helping the larger engines match the smaller engines fuel economy in a lot of cases.

 

My F150 chugs along at 1200 rpm in 9th or 10th gear and has enough power to avoid downshifts even on inclines.  It's very efficient.

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It really is amazing what Ford has done with efficiency recently, it's really tied to the new transmissions and AWD systems, it's made a big difference.  

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21 hours ago, msm859 said:

I believe the "nicest" vehicle should always include the option to have the most fuel efficient engine. Go ahead and max out everything else. But why should someone who wants to limit their carbon footprint not be entitled to the most luxurious interior?

No offense, but that combo sounds odd to me 🤨, or at least not very saleable. I would bet that most people who want a luxurious interior like power to go with it. At the highest levels like Bentley and Rolls, they're known for luxury coming with  power - lots and lots of it. I don't think there would be any of those customers expecting a small engine, although it would of course be true if you can afford those cars you probably wouldn't care about gas prices. And if you really had a bunch of money and really want to go green you're probably going to but a Tesla anyway. Alternatively, I bet there's not a lot of people buying a Prius who are pushing their salesguy for a luxury interior.

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21 hours ago, Assimilator said:

I'm definitely of the belief that Black Label should be reserved for only the maxed out configurations.  When you buy Black Label, the only thing you should have to select is the theme.   The only thing I don't want standard is Trailer Tow, and if there are exotic powertrains like PHEV.  AWD should also be standard on BL.   The fact you can buy cheaper BL vehicles than Reserve makes no sense and diminishes the sub-brand while increasing costs to the dealer and diluting the value of exclusivity.  I think they are starting to fix this now and scaling back BL to only certain high-end vehicles. I bought a fully-loaded BL Nautilus and love it.

Personally I totally agree with everything you said, leave the tech stuff you expect to find on a high end vehicle - gotta come standard. But give us the option of the tow package that not a lot of people are going to use, and of course leave off the $1995 lincoln Play rear seat - let's have the soccer mom's with good car taste and kids to talk Dad in to that one...

 

I have to say the biggest bummer about ordering the Lincoln products is the unavailability of ordering a black package like other manufacturers offer, It sells cars and there's a LOT of people who like the blacked out wheels, grills and overall chrome. We would have absolutely ordered our car like that and I have promised the wife I'll do whatever it takes to get at least the grill and wheels powdercoated asap. Especially that grill, I like the shape and size, but the brightness of it makes me think of someone smiling at me with gold teeth.... Probably just me....😀

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17 minutes ago, Deafsoundguy said:

Personally I totally agree with everything you said, leave the tech stuff you expect to find on a high end vehicle - gotta come standard. But give us the option of the tow package that not a lot of people are going to use, and of course leave off the $1995 lincoln Play rear seat - let's have the soccer mom's with good car taste and kids to talk Dad in to that one...

 

I have to say the biggest bummer about ordering the Lincoln products is the unavailability of ordering a black package like other manufacturers offer, It sells cars and there's a LOT of people who like the blacked out wheels, grills and overall chrome. We would have absolutely ordered our car like that and I have promised the wife I'll do whatever it takes to get at least the grill and wheels powdercoated asap. Especially that grill, I like the shape and size, but the brightness of it makes me think of someone smiling at me with gold teeth.... Probably just me....😀

 

Like this?

 

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/07/15/2020-lincoln-navigator-monochromatic-package-standard-features/

 

20f49220-a40d-11e9-afff-74dd3e96148c

 

I'm sure this monochromatic package will spread to other models.

Edited by rmc523

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22 minutes ago, Deafsoundguy said:

Personally I totally agree with everything you said, leave the tech stuff you expect to find on a high end vehicle - gotta come standard. But give us the option of the tow package that not a lot of people are going to use,

 

Deaf, I'm struggling with your obsession regarding the Tow Package. It IS an option, nobody is forcing you to order a vehicle with it.  You can't blame dealers if THEY find that vehicles WITH Tow Packages sell better, and put it on their in-stock vehicles. But this has to be the 4th or 5th time you've specifically mentioned it.

 

Why do you think it's being forced on you?

 

HRG

2020 Nault BL options.JPG

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35 minutes ago, Deafsoundguy said:

Personally I totally agree with everything you said, leave the tech stuff you expect to find on a high end vehicle - gotta come standard. But give us the option of the tow package that not a lot of people are going to use, and of course leave off the $1995 lincoln Play rear seat - let's have the soccer mom's with good car taste and kids to talk Dad in to that one...

 

I have to say the biggest bummer about ordering the Lincoln products is the unavailability of ordering a black package like other manufacturers offer, It sells cars and there's a LOT of people who like the blacked out wheels, grills and overall chrome. We would have absolutely ordered our car like that and I have promised the wife I'll do whatever it takes to get at least the grill and wheels powdercoated asap. Especially that grill, I like the shape and size, but the brightness of it makes me think of someone smiling at me with gold teeth.... Probably just me....😀

 

Yeah, those are the two options I don't want standard either, but I use to order the tow kit just so I could instal my bike rack.  And I agree with the black-out package, although that's why I bought the Black Label version in Black, it has those contrasting painted pocket wheels, I actually really want the billet style grille design from the Corsair and Aviator BL.   

Edited by Assimilator

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8 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Deaf, I'm struggling with your obsession regarding the Tow Package. It IS an option, nobody is forcing you to order a vehicle with it.  You can't blame dealers if THEY find that vehicles WITH Tow Packages sell better, and put it on their in-stock vehicles. But this has to be the 4th or 5th time you've specifically mentioned it.

 

Why do you think it's being forced on you?

 

HRG

2020 Nault BL options.JPG

 

He thinks that because the ones he saw had it I guess.

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9 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Deaf, I'm struggling with your obsession regarding the Tow Package. It IS an option, nobody is forcing you to order a vehicle with it.  You can't blame dealers if THEY find that vehicles WITH Tow Packages sell better, and put it on their in-stock vehicles. But this has to be the 4th or 5th time you've specifically mentioned it.

 

Why do you think it's being forced on you?

 

HRG

2020 Nault BL options.JPG

I'm not obsessed. And it's not forced upon me. I was just agreeing with Assimilator that it should be an option, as well the DVD system. That's all I said. We ordered our 2020 without the tow package so we're happy campers with our marshmallows out. 🙂

 

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24 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Like this?

 

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/07/15/2020-lincoln-navigator-monochromatic-package-standard-features/

 

20f49220-a40d-11e9-afff-74dd3e96148c

 

I'm sure this monochromatic package will spread to other models.

Holy Cow!!! 🐄 That looks freakin awesome! Well I uh didn't know you could get a Navigator like this! I never shopped for one so didn't know. Let me rephrase my statement - I am bummed that we couldn't order our Nautilus like that! Now I know it's just me, but for me the blackened Nav look way better -Love it!!!🤩

 

Thanks for sharing that!!! 👊

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21 minutes ago, Deafsoundguy said:

Holy Cow!!! 🐄 That looks freakin awesome! Well I uh didn't know you could get a Navigator like this! I never shopped for one so didn't know. Let me rephrase my statement - I am bummed that we couldn't order our Nautilus like that! Now I know it's just me, but for me the blackened Nav look way better -Love it!!!🤩

 

Thanks for sharing that!!! 👊

 

It's new for 2020.

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Both of those Navigators still have chrome all over the place.  The black one has a “blacked out” nameplate trim piece on the door/fender yet still has chrome trim pieces elsewhere on the sides.  That alone looks disjointed in my opinion.  

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9 hours ago, Deafsoundguy said:

No offense, but that combo sounds odd to me 🤨, or at least not very saleable. I would bet that most people who want a luxurious interior like power to go with it. At the highest levels like Bentley and Rolls, they're known for luxury coming with  power - lots and lots of it. I don't think there would be any of those customers expecting a small engine, although it would of course be true if you can afford those cars you probably wouldn't care about gas prices. And if you really had a bunch of money and really want to go green you're probably going to but a Tesla anyway. Alternatively, I bet there's not a lot of people buying a Prius who are pushing their salesguy for a luxury interior.

Your statement in bold proves my point, I  suggest there are a lot of people who want the luxury AND the "green".  We took the Tesla X for a test drive and my wife thought it was too small and plain.  She loves the Aviator.  I am waiting for the real world experiences with the Aviator GT.  I have already beaten the dead horse around here about my pause as to the small battery and small electric motor they are putting in it.  Audi just announced their 2020 Q5 PHEV(a much smaller vehicle) has a 141 hp electric motor and 14.1 kWh battery - both larger than the Aviator.  For some it has nothing to do with the price of gas.

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I hear you. I don't like the Tesla interiors at all and after talking to a Tesla mechanic and hearing how expensive suspension fixes are - no thanks! I actually am near the same page as you - I drive a Cadillac ELR PHEV, so I get my green, but gas when I want it, and I get 35 mpg when I do choose to run on gas or the battery runs out. It solves a lot of problems for me since I drive so much living in the burbs now. But the biggest reason I bought the ELR wasn't the fact that it was electric or gas, it's because of the luxury interior which is stellar. I didn't care really about ultimate power, it just needed to be as fast as the electric car it was replacing which was a BMW i3. As far as I know, at least at the time of buying my used 2016 at the beginning of the 2019, it is the only real luxury car that can get 40+ electric (I get near 50 in the summer) AND run gas whenever wanted. It does feel good whenever I'm stuck in traffic or at a long line that I'm just sitting there not using any gas.

 

Really wanted to wait for the Corsair and the hybrid availability for the wife's car but she put her foot down and said no "Black Label - no Corsair" 🙄 after touching the interior surfaces of the BL Nautilus. That being said, I'd love to go green in a Lincoln but when a battery upgrade like to Grand Touring in the Aviator is going to cost $12,000 more, it kinda takes the wind out of the sails. I'm curious to know what it's going to be in the Corsair.

 

 

ELR R+S shot2.jpg

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