bzcat Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 minute ago, silvrsvt said: Sigh... Ford just cut the shift at the end of last year-fully knowing that the Escape sales would shrink going forward due to age and the new model coming out this year and put them to work on the then hot selling Navigator and Expedition I'd expect the the Baby Bronco to sell about 50-100K units a year and running a plant with three shifts like that has a whole host of problems associated with it when you run it full out at those numbers your talking about. Plus why not build the baby bronco in what is going to be an underutilized plant in Mexico and make more profit off it? You are also locking out the capacity in a single plant if both vehicle sales take off. The C-segment utility is now the biggest vehicle segment. Ford probably needs to have the flexibility to ramp up production here. If they can't sell 350k+ units here, they really have no business being a car company anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 22 hours ago, Assimilator said: I think this is probably the CX758, which is essentially the Crossover companion of the compact pickup (P758). Those are suppose to arrive sometime in 2022 to be assembled at Hermosillo. The lengthened wheelbase would probably serve both vehicles well, but I didn't picture the CX758 as a low-slung Fusion replacement, but that would explain why the pickup has a crossover companion in the project code. I like the potential here, but obviously it depends on the final product. The mule tells us nothing about the final product besides the wheelbase. I don't think this is CX758. The thing to remember about CX758 is that it was supposed to be low cost and designed with emerging market in mind. I think Ford has decided to go with Territory instead. CX758 may have been re-imagined along the way and perhaps will now become next gen Territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, bzcat said: You are also locking out the capacity in a single plant if both vehicle sales take off. The C-segment utility is now the biggest vehicle segment. Ford probably needs to have the flexibility to ramp up production here. If they can't sell 350k+ units here, they really have no business being a car company anymore. So they are going to let a plant in Mexico just produce 40K BEVs? Maybe 60K with world wide sales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) Ford has multiple C-Segment sized crossovers besides the Escape and CX430, such as the crossover in this thread and the compact pickup. We also have the EcoSport and Edge at the perimeters (EcoSport being the newest addition). So there is much more volume to spread between these products than just the Escape and CX430. We even have the Mach-E in this space. But again, I'm must speculating about the potential move from Mexico. We've almost certainly reached peak Escape volume a few years ago with more competition externally and internally. They can easily get 50-100K units in Louisville. And with the market likely contracting in the next few years with the need to keep Escape sales profitable, I think they have plenty of headroom. The presence of CX430 may also contract Escape sales or offset the demand. Ford wants to improve profitable volume. Ford rarely has sudden blockbusters that doesn't come without selling them cheaply. Edited October 15, 2019 by Assimilator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Assimilator said: It's the one plant in the US they can hire new people. Well that's 100% false.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) Well, besides the expected production ramp-up for Bronco at MAP. Edited October 15, 2019 by Assimilator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 30 minutes ago, Assimilator said: Well, besides the expected production ramp-up for Bronco at MAP. FRAP also has only 1 shift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) Ford is taking a huge leap of faith building all those products in Mexico, the degree of complexity that it's assigning to Hermosillo alone should be raising alarm bells... MKZ, Fusion CUV + TC /AVs + CX430 + Compact Pick up?????? Aside form Mach E, what's going into Cuautitlan? The big issue for a lot of us is threads of the plan but no definitive "here is our road map" Ford may well have a plan but it really looks ad hoc (made up on the run) and it concerns me that we're less then 12 months out and we're still not seeing anything from Ford regarding all these great new products. Edited October 15, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, silvrsvt said: So they are going to let a plant in Mexico just produce 40K BEVs? Maybe 60K with world wide sales? I don't know but I agree with you that Ford should have a 2nd production site for C utilities. Ford is the only major volume car company in North America that has such a low capacity threshold for C-utilities. A single plant with around ~300k output without really putting quality control or labor relations in serious jeopardy. Ford has 1 plant in North America building Escape/Corsair, with Baby Bronco TBD. GM has 4 plants in North America building Equinox/Terrain, XT4 and will be importing Trailblazer and Encore GX (which are C-segment, no long B-segment) from Korea. And they also said they are building next gen Buick Envision in North America. Toyota has 2 plants in North America building RAV4 and also imports it and NX from Japan. Honda has 4 plants in North America building CR-V and RDX and also imports CR-V from Japan. FCA has 2 plants in North America building Compass and Cherokee. Nissan has 2 plants in North America building Rogue and also imports it from Korea and Japan, and Rogue Sport from Japan. Hyundai/Kia has 2 plants in Korea building Tucson and Sportage. VW has 1 plant in North America building Tiguan and will add another one building Tharu shortly. So basically, everyone in the industry has already made their bet... C-utilities are the new midsize car and everyone has the capacity to grow. Except for Ford. Unless of course Ford adds a 2nd line to build Baby Bronco and Escape overflow. Edited October 15, 2019 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) A few years back, Ford was punching out 415K to 430K production from LAP Edited October 15, 2019 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 I think we are reading into this way too much. Ford has already begun switching over the old Fiesta plant for the Mach E and Baby Bronco. Mexican production will allow a greater distribution network to other nations as it has cheaper labor and has better trade deals. Escape and Corsair stay as only products for Louisville. Also remember that China will start building the Corsair. That will save around 1,500-2,000 units of production for North America. Also have seen rumors the Escape will be built in Argentina to replace Focus production. This means Mexico and other Latin American markets might get production from that plant instead leaving the Louisville to only have to serve (mostly) the US and Canada. Again, that frees up production. As for what could join the Baby Bronco and Mach E at the old Fiesta plant? There were old rumors in China that were calling for a smaller than-MkC (at that time) crossover. That would most certainly be on the slightly smaller version of C2 with the Baby Bronco. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I bet a Encore/Trax sized Lincoln would do well here, and not a gussied-up EcoSport either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyfire Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Not a fan of this. Dunno why the back looks like a head of an alien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I bet a Encore/Trax sized Lincoln would do well here, and not a gussied-up EcoSport either. careful what you wish for, a bean counter might hear you.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, sunnyfire said: Not a fan of this. Dunno why the back looks like a head of an alien. It's a mule, they stuck an Escape hatch on the back of a Mondeo Stationwagon. the real McCoy looks to be behind it..... Edited October 16, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 17 hours ago, jpd80 said: Ford is taking a huge leap of faith building all those products in Mexico, the degree of complexity that it's assigning to Hermosillo alone should be raising alarm bells... MKZ, Fusion CUV + TC /AVs + CX430 + Compact Pick up?????? Aside form Mach E, what's going into Cuautitlan? The big issue for a lot of us is threads of the plan but no definitive "here is our road map" Ford may well have a plan but it really looks ad hoc (made up on the run) and it concerns me that we're less then 12 months out and we're still not seeing anything from Ford regarding all these great new products. They're certainly keeping their cards close to the vest. Hopefully soon we'll start getting some more info. We just need to fast forward to the upcoming shows. 14 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I bet a Encore/Trax sized Lincoln would do well here, and not a gussied-up EcoSport either. They'd have to do it right. I'd be concerned about pulling the brand too low too early. 13 hours ago, sunnyfire said: Not a fan of this. Dunno why the back looks like a head of an alien. Nothing you see there is final anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRH60 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 jpd80, I think the front mule is a widened and lengthened Focus wagon not a Mondeo wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 43 minutes ago, PRH60 said: jpd80, I think the front mule is a widened and lengthened Focus wagon not a Mondeo wagon. Of course, yes... a closer look and the grille and head lights are different Fusion/Mondeo, more like Focus So a bigger version of this Focus Active wagon? perhaps widened and lengthened with an Escape type hatch tailgate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) Just to let you guys know a little piece of not so important information, I work at Oakville Assembly Complex and we just finished production of the last MKT'S last week. The Flex is due to be phased out December 1st. We are working 10s in Trim Chassis and Paint. In Bodybuild, we are still on 3 shifts till January when the company wants to cancel the c-shift. Not set in stone though. It will be interesting to see what and if we get anything other than NG EDGE NAUTILUS after our contract next year. Our plant is massive and can easily handle more products. Dollar is lower and yes it fluctuates so we shall see what FOMOCO has in store for our 1 Canadian Assembly Plant. Fords little Canadian footprint. Edited October 16, 2019 by Oacjay98 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: Just to let you guys know a little piece of not so important information, I work at Oakville Assembly Complex and we just finished production of the last MKT'S last week. The Flex is due to be phased out December 1st. We are working 10s in Trim Chassis and Paint. In Bodybuild, we are still on 3 shifts till January when the company wants to cancel the c-shift. Not set in stone though. It will be interesting to see what and if we get anything other than NG EDGE NAUTILUS after our contract next year. Our plant is massive and can easily handle more products. Dollar is lower and yes it fluctuates so we shall see what FOMOCO has in store for our 1 Canadian Assembly Plant. Fords little Canadian footprint. Thanks for posting that Information.:) i guess you guys have no idea what’s in store with the UNIFOR contract, here’s hoping that OAC gets a nice jump in production output to more than cover loss of MKT & Flex, such a shame that Ford didn’t do more with both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Thanks man, I hope that we get additional product to make up for the loss of those two vehicles. They are low volume anyways to be honest. The MKT is gone and we’re still doing 10s, I know it just got phased out last Friday but they’re not big sellers anyways. The Edge and Nautilus are our major sellers as you guys already know. I believe there is a chance we may get something. We will just have to see what Jerry Diaz and Unifor can negotiate. All we got left in Canada is Oac a couple of engine facilities and two distribution centres. They’ll do their usual we can move to flat rock or Mexico threat and our union will cave. Edited October 17, 2019 by Oacjay98 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Well right now walking into the Lincoln dealership, you have the "opportunity" of purchasing a loaded up Corsiar for $58k, or a loaded up Nautilus for about the same price. No brainer really. Obviously the next generation Nautilus will be pushing $70K easily, and I'm sitting here wondering "How many can afford all this expensive meat at the bbq"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, ANTAUS said: Well right now walking into the Lincoln dealership, you have the "opportunity" of purchasing a loaded up Corsiar for $58k, or a loaded up Nautilus for about the same price. No brainer really. Obviously the next generation Nautilus will be pushing $70K easily, and I'm sitting here wondering "How many can afford all this expensive meat at the bbq"... For many buyers, it's now just meeting the monthly payment and clinching a guaranteed buy back price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) The more I look at this thing the more I realise it's concealing a much wider track Edited October 17, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: The more I look at this thing the more I realise it's concealing a much wider track Not to mention, a longer wheelbase too.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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