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blwnsmoke

Fusion styled crossover?

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I'm curious to see what happens to Oakville, they don't have much going on until 2023 when they would presumably get the new Edge/Nautilus.  I think it makes more sense to build entry-level utilities in Hermosillo where costs are more favorable.  Canada is an increasingly more expensive place to manufacture, with a more volatile exchange rate so I can't imagine a Fusion replacement being made there unless it costs more than the Edge.  I don't see Oakville being assigned any new products on the information I have anyway, it's all US and Mexico.

 

Hermosillo is getting the new Transit Connect vans which was originally slated for Flatrock.  Flatrock is instead getting the new Midsize BEVs.  

Edited by Assimilator

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40 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

I'm curious to see what happens to Oakville, they don't have much going on until 2023 when they would presumably get the new Edge/Nautilus.  I think it makes more sense to build entry-level utilities in Hermosillo where costs are more favorable.  Canada is an increasingly more expensive place to manufacture, with a more volatile exchange rate so I can't imagine a Fusion replacement being made there unless it costs more than the Edge.  I don't see Oakville being assigned any new products on the information I have anyway, it's all US and Mexico.

 

Hermosillo is getting the new Transit Connect vans which was originally slated for Flatrock.  Flatrock is instead getting the new Midsize BEVs.  

 

Looks like an Edge prototype behind the Mule, I wonder if they are being developed together..

Or is that a cooling /powertrain mule followed by a prototype Fusion Crossover?

 

ford-fusion-crossover-lifted-wagon-repla

Edited by jpd80

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14 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

 

Looks like an Edge prototype behind the Mule, I wonder if they are being developed together..

 

ford-fusion-crossover-lifted-wagon-repla

I think so, because both are on the C2 platform. If even the Fusion crossover will be in C2, what will be left for the CD6? Explorer and Aviator only?

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57 minutes ago, RadicalX said:

I think so, because both are on the C2 platform. If even the Fusion crossover will be in C2, what will be left for the CD6? Explorer and Aviator only?

Yes, I think that Explorer and Aviator will be it for CD6.

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7 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Yes, I think that Explorer and Aviator will be it for CD6.

 until we get the seventh-generation Mustang

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2 minutes ago, RadicalX said:

 until we get the seventh-generation Mustang

Intel now says, heavy Evolution of S550, sharing parts from CD6.

Next year's update improves modularity for electrics and hybrid.

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2 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

I’m all for new products but this is starting to seem like overkill.  Ford should focus on reliable launches of new products (problem free) rather than saturating the market with competing CUV’s within the brand.  Diversity works to a certain extent, but it will be interesting to see how this plays out.  

 

Overkill?

EcoSport

New Low Cost vehicle (not sure if this is replacing the Ecosport or not)

Escape-Car like C

Baby Bronco-SUV like C

Possible 3 row C CUV (shared with Compact Pickup/Transit Connect-this could be possible overkill)

Compact Pickup

Transit Connect

Mach E

Mustang

Fusion Crossover (Think Wagon or Kuga on steroids)

Edge

Mid sized BEV Crossover
Bronco

Ranger

Explorer

F-series

Expedition

Transit

E-series cutaway 

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32 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Yes, I think that Explorer and Aviator will be it for CD6.

I would be shocked if they didn't try for a Lincoln crossover coupe.

 

I'd make the next gen Continental or Zephyr a crossover coupe with coach doors.

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2 hours ago, RadicalX said:

Lincoln needs subcompact CUV like XC40

XC40 is a compact crossover, not a subcompact.

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2 hours ago, atomcat68 said:

I would be shocked if they didn't try for a Lincoln crossover coupe.

 

I'd make the next gen Continental or Zephyr a crossover coupe with coach doors.

Which will probably be covered by the 2023 BEVs coming from Flat Rock

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9 hours ago, Assimilator said:

I'm not sure why they are basing a C2 Crossover mule on a C2 Focus either, they would have to do less butchering with the new Escape as its basis.  So it doesn't make much sense to me.  But the only remaining Crossover code mystery is the CX758...and here is a mystery new crossover mule.

 

I was also under the assumption that the CX758 was going to be an affordable small utility, the one Ford is promising for 2022.  So I'm still not clear on what the lineup is going to look like by 2022/23.  But Fusion remains in production through 2021 so this is right on time.  

 

Ford's reps have been telling Dealers for some time that the 2020MY Fusion is the end of the line. 

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3 minutes ago, Kje1289 said:

Slightly awkward slightly interesting, the rear 1/4 is different that's for sure.

 

Its just a test part-other Mules have had funky looking 1/4 like this in the past. Not 100% sure why they do it. 

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14 hours ago, Assimilator said:

I'm pretty sure the Escape mule behind it is an outdated Mach E mule.  

 

And my information says that Fusion remains in production until 'at least' 2021.  The production timeline was extended, likely to overlap with these new products.

 

There is a suggestion that the CX430 (Bronco Mini) is actually going to Louisville alongside the Escape instead of Hermosillo.  This might be used in the UAW negotiation to restore a shift to that plant which was cut ahead of the 2020 Escape launch.  That might have changed the timeline on Fusion production.  

 

Sounds like they're going to wind up limiting production of all three of Escape, Baby Bronco, and Corsair if they go with that move.

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4 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Sounds like they're going to wind up limiting production of all three of Escape, Baby Bronco, and Corsair if they go with that move.

 

The baby bronco was never going to Heromsillo and it would outright stupid to stick it Louisville. 

 

Given the timing everything, the smart money would be Cuautitlan. It just ended Fiesta production and the Mach E is going there-but Ford is only planning about 40K Mach Es a year-that leaves lots of room for the Baby Bronco or other products.  

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22 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The baby bronco was never going to Heromsillo and it would outright stupid to stick it Louisville. 

 

Given the timing everything, the smart money would be Cuautitlan. It just ended Fiesta production and the Mach E is going there-but Ford is only planning about 40K Mach Es a year-that leaves lots of room for the Baby Bronco or other products.  

 

Agreed - they'd just be shooting themselves in the foot otherwise, IMO.

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Its just a test part-other Mules have had funky looking 1/4 like this in the past. Not 100% sure why they do it. 

 

Because it's cheaper and easier to chop up and stitch together an existing vehicle for this phase of testing while the production body isn't ready for prototyping yet. It tells me that there's not many, if any, major suspension changes. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Sounds like they're going to wind up limiting production of all three of Escape, Baby Bronco, and Corsair if they go with that move.

 

Someone mentioned earlier that Louisville is down one shift; if that is true, wouldn't there be space to add Baby Bronco while bringing back the third shift? Isn't the assumption that Escape will not regain its former sales level, given the addition of Baby Bronco?

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3 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Someone mentioned earlier that Louisville is down one shift; if that is true, wouldn't there be space to add Baby Bronco while bringing back the third shift? Isn't the assumption that Escape will not regain its former sales level, given the addition of Baby Bronco?

 

But is that one shift because of the changeover?  Or intended to be a permanent thing?

 

Who knows?  Maybe both take off.

 

I do suppose another thing to consider is that Corsair may not need as much production there because I believe they're supposed to be building China-bound Corsairs in China at some point.

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Corsair production was moved to China which reduces some of the volume needed at the plant.  Ford cut a shift at Louisville to move those employees to expand SuperDuty/Expedition production.  Ford has been drawing down Escape sales ahead of 2020 by reducing incentives to get them ready for the more expensive 2020 Escape.  Hackett had a whole spiel about it in one of their quarterly conferences.  Ford has more than enough capacity for Corsair, Escape, and Maverick at Louisville if they can restore the third shift, but obviously they need to hire people back to the plant.  At its peak, it had a capacity of 340K, but Escape is poised to sell 250K this year (peaked at 308K in 2017).  Maverick is more of a premium product, it's not that cheap with standard AWD and won't sell in Escape numbers.  It's essentially like a premium Ruggedized Escape, it's lower volume but bigger margin.  Collectively they'll retain or grow their C-Segment high-point while keeping prices up, the segment was degrading into a lower margin commodity like midsizers and Ford has been talking allot about avoiding that trap with this dual-product approach.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Assimilator

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11 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

Ford has more than enough capacity for Corsair, Escape, and Maverick at Louisville if they can restore the third shift, but obviously they need to hire people back to the plant.  At its peak, it had a capacity of 340K, but Escape is poised to sell 250K this year (peaked at 308K in 2017).  

 

Sigh...

 

Ford just cut the shift at the end of last year-fully knowing that the Escape sales would shrink going forward due to age and the new model coming out this year and put them to work on the then hot selling Navigator and Expedition

 

I'd expect the the Baby Bronco to sell about 50-100K units a year and running a plant with three shifts like that has a whole host of problems associated with it when you run it full out at those numbers your talking about.

 

Plus why not build the baby bronco in what is going to be an underutilized plant in Mexico and make more profit off it?

 

Just look at this way:

 

Even if Escape sales are flat-270K units

Baby Bronco-50-100K-depends on how much impact on Escape Sales

Corsair is 20-30K units alone for the US market.

 

That puts you well over what the max capacity is for the plant. 

Edited by silvrsvt

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16 hours ago, jpd80 said:

 

Looks like an Edge prototype behind the Mule, I wonder if they are being developed together..

Or is that a cooling /powertrain mule followed by a prototype Fusion Crossover?

 

 

 

There is no reason they shouldn't be developed together. 

 

Fusion Active vs. Edge is probably like Escape vs. Baby Bronco. 

 

 

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Right now the CX430 is scheduled for Mexico (Hermosillo is my information), so I expect it to be built there, but I'm theorizing it could make its way to Lousville under the right contract conditions.  It's the one plant in the US they can hire new people.  They can still move things around in Mexico, like the Compact Truck/Utility and Transit.  I'm not sure if Ford wants to produce 5 of its new nameplates in Mexico right now, politically treacherous.    I can't think of a better time to say hey...loook...we are moving our new SUV from Mexico to the US....please have mercy! 

Edited by Assimilator

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