Toyota FJ's abound, 50,000 units?

[Joe771476]

I was on a two lane road the other day and there was a blue FJ in front of me, one behind me and one coming from the other direction! All blue! How many does Toyota hope to sell? Doesn't matter; if they sell 50,000 they'll probably be happy! But would Ford? Hell no! If Ford could sell 1,300,000 F-series and Rangers combined but it would mean selling only 700,000 F-Series, they wouldn't do it! They're too obsessed with big numbers and dominating a segment/category.

[igor]

I was on a two lane road the other day and there was a blue FJ in front of me, one behind me and one coming from the other direction! All blue! How many does Toyota hope to sell? Doesn't matter; if they sell 50,000 they'll probably be happy! But would Ford? Hell no! If Ford could sell 1,300,000 F-series and Rangers combined but it would mean selling only 700,000 F-Series, they wouldn't do it! They're too obsessed with big numbers and dominating a segment/category.

 

If the FJ was a Ford no one would have bought it - it would have been called a Second Gen Aztec, and Ford would be dragged on the street for building another gas guzzler - there is NOTHING the FJ offers most of its owners than a new way to look "cool" in a stupid Toyota.

 

FJ is an offroad machine, just like the Wrangler and the Xterra - but how many FJ's have you seen with any mud marks?

 

I have not seen a single one - all have a guy or a woman in a bussiness suit driving it and not passengers ...

 

 

Igor

[IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE]

If the FJ was a Ford no one would have bought it - it would have been called a Second Gen Aztec, and Ford would be dragged on the street for building another gas guzzler - there is NOTHING the FJ offers most of its owners than a new way to look "cool" in a stupid Toyota.

 

FJ is an offroad machine, just like the Wrangler and the Xterra - but how many FJ's have you seen with any mud marks?

 

I have not seen a single one - all have a guy or a woman in a bussiness suit driving it and not passengers ...

Igor

The FJ was aimed at previous Blazer and Bronco Buyers. It has a distinctive outdoor look with a Beach (off road) coastal swagger. This niche vehicle works for Toyota. It is just another product to make you forget about the domestics. Toyota is looking and uppin production to be #1 in the USA. Toyota Scion Lexus. A marketing dream.

[RichardJensen]

FJ will be a fad vehicle. Likely Toyota knows this. Volume will trend downward as those that want one get one.

 

"Toyota Scion Lexus" A marketing dream?

 

No.

 

Consider that the last two brands were made up out of whole cloth.

 

As Mkaresh said on another thread, the problem is often the client, not the agency.

[Guest Sixcav]

Ah the usual bullshit. Everything that Toyota does is bad and stupid. Meanwhile they are still kicking Fords ass. Those stupid Toyota guys. I just love these :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: sessions.

 

I really think it would just absolutely kill some of you guys to have to say that Toyota did something right. lol

[igor]

Ah the usual bullshit. Everything that Toyota does is bad and stupid. Meanwhile they are still kicking Fords ass. Those stupid Toyota guys. I just love these :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: sessions.

 

I really think it would just absolutely kill some of you guys to have to say that Toyota did something right. lol

 

the FJ tops out at $39k.. I thought any car that costs over $25k is useless in your book.. or did you change your argument (conveniently) again?

 

And I never called the FJ stupid - it is a great offroader - but if Ford did it - it would have gotten bashed to no end, because it IS a gas guzzling SUV. If anything this is criticism/reflection of the public/media perception - not reality.

 

Igor

Edited September 21, 2006 by igor

[RichardJensen]

Did I say it was stupid? no.

 

I just called it a passing fad.

[Guest Sixcav]

stupid is exactly what you called it igor

 

there is NOTHING the FJ offers most of its owners than a new way to look "cool" in a stupid Toyota.

 

For the record did you see anywhere in that post where I said I would buy an FJ. It's averaging around what, 29, to 30 grand most places? It gets lousy mileage and I believe it requires premium fuel. So no I wouldn't buy it. But I do see a pretty fair amount of them on the road around here. So evidently it appeals to some people. Its one of those "love it" or "hate it" vehicles you know?

[igor]

stupid is exactly what you called it igor

For the record did you see anywhere in that post where I said I would buy an FJ. It's averaging around what, 29, to 30 grand most places? It gets lousy mileage and I believe it requires premium fuel. So no I wouldn't buy it. But I do see a pretty fair amount of them on the road around here. So evidently it appeals to some people. Its one of those "love it" or "hate it" vehicles you know?

 

OK SixCav .. I did call it stupid ... I forgot that piece.. but how come you give toyota credit of

So evidently it appeals to some people. Its one of those "love it" or "hate it" vehicles you know?

 

but Ford does not have such leniency? If you do nto feel like buyong a ford over $25k, you have been preaching on this board that NO ONE will buy a Ford over $25k .... we have been proving you wrong since you started that piece of nonsense, yet you stubbornly and blindly continue on arguing it - but now Toyta (oh the almighty Toyota) comes out with a car that tops out at $39k, and .. well I guess ... while I owuld not buy it ... I guess others could ...

 

BullShit ....

 

Igor

[Guest Sixcav]

People still buy 30K Fords to so I guess some of those appeal to some people. Look man, there's no proving anything when it comes to the cost of vehicles and weather one person thinks they're worth it and another person doesn't. It's purely a matter of personal opinion. You can't be right or wrong on the issue. There is no black or white. I know you analytical types like to think it works that way but it doesn't in real life ok. If you really paid attention to most of my posts you would know that I think Toyotas shit is overpriced too. Hell Toyotas shit is more overpriced than Ford's overpriced shit. lol You happy now? So yes, I'll keep arguing the point, because its what I believe. You suckers keep paying 31 grand for a damn Explorer that's worth maybe 22. Maybe.

Edited September 21, 2006 by Sixcav

[ebritt]

Bring back the Bronco II. I loved mine.

[Blue II]

Ah the usual bullshit. Everything that Toyota does is bad and stupid. Meanwhile they are still kicking Fords ass. Those stupid Toyota guys. I just love these :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: sessions.

 

I really think it would just absolutely kill some of you guys to have to say that Toyota did something right. lol

 

Toyozda is still #3 in NA sales.

[Guest Sixcav]

Toyozda is still #3 in NA sales.

 

Yeah I know, I've seen the numbers. It takes ford 6 different car companies to sell just 13 thousand more cars than Toyota does with just 2. That equals an ass kicking in favor of Toyota. Ford can do better than that. They have the ability and the talent.

[Michael Reynolds]

Yeah I know, I've seen the numbers. It takes ford 6 different car companies to sell just 13 thousand more cars than Toyota does with just 2. That equals an ass kicking in favor of Toyota. Ford can do better than that. They have the ability and the talent.

 

Yeah two of which are low volume contenders.

[Biker16]

the FJ tops out at $39k.. I thought any car that costs over $25k is useless in your book.. or did you change your argument (conveniently) again?

 

And I never called the FJ stupid - it is a great offroader - but if Ford did it - it would have gotten bashed to no end, because it IS a gas guzzling SUV. If anything this is criticism/reflection of the public/media perception - not reality.

 

Igor

So what. what low self esteem we have.

[kyle]

I give toyota all the credit for making the vehicle...they obviously can get away with it. If you price it out vs a 4 runner it is very attractive and yah it may be a fad but 50k units of sales with little or no cash on the hood sure helps.

 

Name me one other vehicle that you can buy for $30 that has that type of look? Besides the capibility...i will agree with some of you...they are not going off road...but who cares.

 

Ford could have the same thing going on with the bronco. There is tremdous amount of good will with that name...put a diesel in it and it would sell in pretty good volume.

 

The reason why toyota can take chances like this is because of all the flexibility they have in their manufacturing facilties and they are years ahead with platform sharing.

[RichardJensen]

Also, it should be remembered that this was a concept car 3 years ago (2003).

 

It took Toyota 3 years to bring the FJ to market.

 

So let's try and cut the whining about 3 years to market with the 'Fairlane', hmm?

Edited September 21, 2006 by RichardJensen

[Anthony]

I have to also give kudos to Toyota. I don't like any of their other vehicles, but the FJ is spot on as to something I would love to have. Something rugged enough to use offroad, but also a great DD. Plus, it is unique in style as well as packaging. This is what a "Bronco" could be...or better.

Edited September 21, 2006 by Intrepidatious

[Kev-Mo]

Hey Ford, where's your Bronco?

 

Ford showed the Bronco Concept long before the Toyota FJ, Toyota had the resources to make FJ a reality, Ford did not have the resources to make the Bronco a reality. Here in Colorado, Toyota could sell every one of the 50k units that they can build. FJ's are literaly all over the road, every color. They are the biggest hit since the Broncos won the Super Bowl. Dosen't matter if the buyers actually take them off-road. What matters, is that people with 35k in their pocket don't think twice about giving it to Toyota. The FJ and the Fourunner are both hideous looking. Seems Toyota has an ugly is sexy thing that no other manufacturer can get away with. I know two real off road guys that were waiting for the Bronco because they liked the concept. They are tired of waiting, one got a Jeep Rubicon and the other is likely to buy the FJ...missed opportunities. I know Ford needs to use it's scarce resources to build mainstream cars. Too bad they showed the cool Bronco and could not deliver. Most importantly, if Ford can actually deliver the Bronco in the next 10 years, it had better be able to perform off road like the Jeep Rubicon or FJ!

Edited September 21, 2006 by Kev-Mo

[Guest Sixcav]

Good point about the Bronco. Unfortunatley it appears in recent years that Ford's standard operating procedure is to slow track everything they bring to the market. Good side? It means fewer recalls and greater reliablity when they finally do release it. Bad side? By the time they get it to market they are already behind. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of thing.

Edited September 23, 2006 by Sixcav

[Hemiman]

I think that the FJ Cruiser is UGLY! But it IS a very capable off roader, (more important than looks). I just wish they'ed been more true to the real FJ 40-60 Land Cruiser look.

 

Ford already makes a vehicle in this class that is not only more capable, but carries a stronger legacy. It's called the Land Rover Defender. Just an outstanding 4X4 in anyones book. And it's in the right price range. Sells for less than a Freelander in Britain.

 

But we can't get it here in the good old USA. More Stupid Ford Tricks I guess.

 

http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/Vehicles/overview.htm

Edited September 28, 2006 by Hemiman

[RichardJensen]

More Stupid Ford Tricks I guess.

I think there's some emissions issues, as well as safety concerns. There are people at Ford that want to Federalize the Defender. Maybe they'll get their wish.

 

There's a few dynamics at work here:

 

So lots of people want Broncos, Bronco enthusiasts, that is, well what evidence is there, that a revived Bronco would be different, in sales arc, than the revived T-Bird?

 

It would seem the best way to avoid the "everybody that wants one, gots one" sales arc, where high initial demand trickles down to "is that thing still on the market?" would be to price it low enough to make it an entry vehicle for younger buyers.

 

If you do that, the question is, "What architecture do you use?" Bronco won't sell in enough volume to justify its own platform, so what do you base the Bronco on?

 

Do you decide, "that's it, we're bringing back the Defender", and build the Bronco and Defender on the same (older than Marlon Perkins) frame?

 

That might work: The Bronco would have a total stripped down interior, and would maybe start at $18k, and the Defender would feature better interior appointments (and better AWD capability), and would maybe start at $24-25k--for RWD only.

 

You might be able to profitably hold 20-30k units a year of Bronco volume at that, if you've got maybe 40k units of global Defender volume on the same chassis (don't know what global Defender volume is, BTW).

 

Not having all the facts, there's not much that can be said one way or another about bringing back a true off-road Bronco.

[Hemiman]

I think there's some emissions issues, as well as safety concerns. There are people at Ford that want to Federalize the Defender. Maybe they'll get their wish.

 

There's a few dynamics at work here:

 

So lots of people want Broncos, Bronco enthusiasts, that is, well what evidence is there, that a revived Bronco would be different, in sales arc, than the revived T-Bird?

 

It would seem the best way to avoid the "everybody that wants one, gots one" sales arc, where high initial demand trickles down to "is that thing still on the market?" would be to price it low enough to make it an entry vehicle for younger buyers.

 

If you do that, the question is, "What architecture do you use?" Bronco won't sell in enough volume to justify its own platform, so what do you base the Bronco on?

 

Do you decide, "that's it, we're bringing back the Defender", and build the Bronco and Defender on the same (older than Marlon Perkins) frame?

 

That might work: The Bronco would have a total stripped down interior, and would maybe start at $18k, and the Defender would feature better interior appointments (and better AWD capability), and would maybe start at $24-25k--for RWD only.

 

You might be able to profitably hold 20-30k units a year of Bronco volume at that, if you've got maybe 40k units of global Defender volume on the same chassis (don't know what global Defender volume is, BTW).

 

Not having all the facts, there's not much that can be said one way or another about bringing back a true off-road Bronco.

 

IIRC the issue was "where do we put the passenger side air bag", Last ones were sold here in 1997 under BMW's tenure. They had V-8 gas power and were ungodly expensive. Seems to me Fords vast engineering knowhow could solve the air bag issue & the current diesel could be replaced with the same gas engines in the rest of the LR line up.

[bri719]

If the FJ was a Ford no one would have bought it - it would have been called a Second Gen Aztec, and Ford would be dragged on the street for building another gas guzzler - there is NOTHING the FJ offers most of its owners than a new way to look "cool" in a stupid Toyota.

 

FJ is an offroad machine, just like the Wrangler and the Xterra - but how many FJ's have you seen with any mud marks?

 

I have not seen a single one - all have a guy or a woman in a bussiness suit driving it and not passengers ...

Igor

 

 

ditto, ditto, ditto and I see a billion of these things

 

I'll say it again, someone please show me how this thing isn't just a 4Runner with a toymaker's body on it?? :shrug: and when color tastes change and they're still rolling out the same 3 hideous tones, will anyone want one? especially a used model??

 

fwiw, the best way to shorten the production life of a "novelty" concept car that goes into production is to build and sell as many of them as you can the first few years. PT Snoozer might be the exception, but I still can't figure out for the life of me who is buying those things. anybody in the market for an '07 New Beetle?

[StevenJ]

I think it would be nice to have a manual, live axle, two door Explorer. Would make for a good Bronco and would add some extra capacity to the plant that's currently building them.