akirby Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Shipping vehicles to another factory for repair and delaying delivery of customer vehicles for weeks or months isn't clickbait. And it's been happening for the last 7 years. While I agree it won't do much long term damage it's extremely frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) This has been a process they've used before to iron out build issues for new launches. Sometimes they scrap entire batches of vehicles because of severe defects, with many of them being dumped into the corporate fleet because they can't be sold. This happened with the 2013 MKZ & Escape and 2015 Edge, and other lower volume products like Expedition and Navigator. None of this you'll hear about, there are huge lots in Dearborn with defective early builds. CAP just doesn't have the capacity to hold and repair them like other plants so shipping them to another plant is the solution they had to use. This is a high profile vehicle and plant, that's part of the problem...ontop of an overly ambitious product launch that includes 2 distinctive new models and a bunch of new drivetrains and technologies going into production simultaneously. This is not your typical new vehicle launch. Edited October 22, 2019 by Assimilator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 51 minutes ago, Assimilator said: This is a high profile vehicle and plant, that's part of the problem...ontop of an overly ambitious product launch that includes 2 distinctive new models and a bunch of new drivetrains and technologies going into production simultaneously. This is not your typical new vehicle launch. Then you know what? That falls squarely on upper management for thinking they could do it so fast. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Many have found fault with GM's deliberate slow roll-out of their new full-size pickups. Maybe the slow-motion approach is the reason they aren't facing the quality problems that Ford is facing with the new Explorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, mackinaw said: Many have found fault with GM's deliberate slow roll-out of their new full-size pickups. Maybe the slow-motion approach is the reason they aren't facing the quality problems that Ford is facing with the new Explorer. Possibly that and the compounding affect of trying to launch Explorer together with Aviator and trying to hit the ground running on the up side Ford sold out its ‘19 stock much quicker Edited October 22, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, jpd80 said: on the up side Ford sold out its ‘19 stock much quicker I wonder how much of the rapid draw down of ‘19 stocks was due to the large price increases on the ‘20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadicalX Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Assimilator said: This has been a process they've used before to iron out build issues for new launches. Sometimes they scrap entire batches of vehicles because of severe defects, with many of them being dumped into the corporate fleet because they can't be sold. This happened with the 2013 MKZ & Escape and 2015 Edge, and other lower volume products like Expedition and Navigator. None of this you'll hear about, there are huge lots in Dearborn with defective early builds. CAP just doesn't have the capacity to hold and repair them like other plants so shipping them to another plant is the solution they had to use. This is a high profile vehicle and plant, that's part of the problem...ontop of an overly ambitious product launch that includes 2 distinctive new models and a bunch of new drivetrains and technologies going into production simultaneously. This is not your typical new vehicle launch. You say as if that were acceptable. Ford is attempting to restructure after the powershift scandal, has suffered losses in several markets around the world and has had to move out of the sedan and compact segment to try to boost profits, a drastic measure that is viewed negatively. Here in Brazil I read on several web sites about the finishing problems of Explorer, things that are not even found in entry compact cars of emerging countries. Edited October 23, 2019 by RadicalX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, RadicalX said: You say as if that were acceptable. Ford is attempting to restructure after the powershift scandal, has suffered losses in several markets around the world and has had to move out of the sedan and compact segment to try to boost profits, a drastic measure that is viewed negatively. Here in Brazil I read on several web sites about the finishing problems of Explorer, things that are not even found in entry compact cars of emerging countries. I think his comments were entirely about product launches in USA and how Ford has botched quite a few rather badly and yet the products recovered and went on to be good sellers. most in the US would be completely oblivious to the plight of Ford’s global arms, only that they lose money. To me, One Ford was all about the USA and actually hurt markets outside of it by removing that regional freedom... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 11 hours ago, mackinaw said: Hackett is the top man, so he'll get all the blame, or the credit, but I'm starting to wonder about Joe Hinrichs. Manufacturing was supposed to be Hinrichs strong suit. He's the guy in charge of new model launches. Had the same thought myself. IMO he (Hinrichs) has to bear a lot of the blame for this mess. If this was such a critical launch, and if CAP has had a history of "issues", you would think it would have been under a lot of close scrutiny. Not to let the guy at the top off the hook. Ever get the feeling his attention to "fitness" as well as his lack of experience in a very complicated manufacturing environment had anything to do with this? Watching the videos of the plant conversion, my first thought was .."Holy s**t-talk about opportunity for things to get screwed up" And I guess they have. And again, how many experienced guys were shown the door over the last couple of years. "Attention to detail" is more than a buzz phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said: "Attention to detail" is more than a buzz phrase. As you all know this has been my biggest problem with Hackett. Every time he speaks it's all buzz words and hyperbole. There's very little substance in what he's actually saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said: Had the same thought myself. IMO he (Hinrichs) has to bear a lot of the blame for this mess. If this was such a critical launch, and if CAP has had a history of "issues", you would think it would have been under a lot of close scrutiny. Not to let the guy at the top off the hook. Ever get the feeling his attention to "fitness" as well as his lack of experience in a very complicated manufacturing environment had anything to do with this? This quote was taken from the Ford Media site's profile of Joe Hinrichs: "In addition, Hinrichs leads all of Ford’s automotive skill teams including Product Development, Purchasing, Enterprise Product Line Management, Manufacturing & Labor Affairs, Marketing, Sales & Service, Quality & New Model Launch, Sustainability, Environmental & Safety Engineering, Information Technology, Customer Experience, and Government Affairs." This was his job and he messed it up. Maybe he's not the wonder many think he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, mackinaw said: This quote was taken from the Ford Media site's profile of Joe Hinrichs: "In addition, Hinrichs leads all of Ford’s automotive skill teams including Product Development, Purchasing, Enterprise Product Line Management, Manufacturing & Labor Affairs, Marketing, Sales & Service, Quality & New Model Launch, Sustainability, Environmental & Safety Engineering, Information Technology, Customer Experience, and Government Affairs." This was his job and he messed it up. Maybe he's not the wonder many think he is. Or maybe that's just too much to pile on one guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Or maybe that's just too much to pile on one guy. Too many hats, no one person can effectively control all of them this is Ford’s new one tier management system at work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 4 hours ago, jpd80 said: Too many hats, no one person can effectively control all of them this is Ford’s new one tier management system at work I get that the company was too too heavy, but it seems like they cut a little too much fat out. Having Raj Nair around right about now might not be a bad thing if it weren't for whatever that misconduct thing was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 16 hours ago, jpd80 said: Possibly that and the compounding affect of trying to launch Explorer together with Aviator and trying to hit the ground running on the up side Ford sold out its ‘19 stock much quicker I was surprised they didn't stagger the Explorer and Aviator launches by a month or two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Having Raj Nair around right about now might not be a bad thing if it weren't for whatever that misconduct thing was. Didn't Mr. Nair blame customers for overstated MPG ratings on 2013 Fusion Hybrid and C-Max? Maybe the misconduct on Mr. Nair's part was related to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Didn't Mr. Nair blame customers for overstated MPG ratings on 2013 Fusion Hybrid and C-Max? Maybe the misconduct on Mr. Nair's part was related to that? No he did not. He simply said that Consumer Reports lower mpg could be related to driving style, speed and environmental conditions (temperature, break in time, etc.). All of which was completely true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 hours ago, rperez817 said: Didn't Mr. Nair blame customers for overstated MPG ratings on 2013 Fusion Hybrid and C-Max? Maybe the misconduct on Mr. Nair's part was related to that? Nobody has ever said what exactly the misconduct was but it was heavily implied it was some kind of sexual harassment kind of thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 On 10/22/2019 at 1:20 PM, fuzzymoomoo said: The biggest problem with Atlanta was its so far removed from the supply chain it was much more expensive to ship parts there. Doesn't seem to be an issue for Kia, VW, Mercedes Benz, and BMW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Nobody has ever said what exactly the misconduct was but it was heavily implied it was some kind of sexual harassment kind of thing. That seemed to be the implication, as it ocurred right in the middle of the #metoo tsunami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 33 minutes ago, Harley Lover said: Doesn't seem to be an issue for Kia, VW, Mercedes Benz, and BMW. They don't have plants and supplier bases in Michigan to consider/ship from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, rmc523 said: They don't have plants and supplier bases in Michigan to consider/ship from. But they manage to build a shit-ton of F-150's in Kansas City, and that's further from Detroit than Atlanta is. HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 32 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: But they manage to build a shit-ton of F-150's in Kansas City, and that's further from Detroit than Atlanta is. HRG It's also right about halfway between Dearborn and Mexico and served by a much larger railroad infrastructure than Atlanta. Having Kansas City Southern (which is the only American railroad that goes into Mexico) is a big positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: It's also right about halfway between Dearborn and Mexico and served by a much larger railroad infrastructure than Atlanta. Having Kansas City Southern (which is the only American railroad that goes into Mexico) is a big positive. But the post said the supplier base is in Michigan. So which is it? Mexico or Michigan? Edited October 23, 2019 by Harley Lover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 On 10/22/2019 at 10:47 AM, rperez817 said: Get out of the city of Chicago which is a racist, corrupt place. Build a new plant in Texas and produce Explorer/Aviator there. ? Careful about painting everyone here in Chicago with such a broad brush of racism my friend. That’s a bit extreme. Corruption in politics, that’s another story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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