fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Harley Lover said: But the post said the supplier base is in Michigan. So which is it? Mexico or Michigan? Theres plenty that comes from Mexico. We get stuff for the Ranger from overseas too. But yes the bulk of suppliers with plants in the US are based on Michigan, Ohio, Illinois and Indiana Edited October 23, 2019 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 On 10/22/2019 at 6:01 PM, Trader 10 said: I wonder how much of the rapid draw down of ‘19 stocks was due to the large price increases on the ‘20. The increase is fairly substantial I have to say, so that certainly could be part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2016RS Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 On 10/22/2019 at 10:57 AM, akirby said: I think quality was what he was referring to. Unless changes are made why would we not expect these problems with Bronco or Mach-E launches? I hope this will convince Hackett that more attention needs to be paid to quality now. The smoothness of a launch mainly depends on your workforce and the culture within the plant where it is being launched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) They have only been pushing quality for 20+ years now so a refocus is a joke..if they have not got there crap together by now why should we even bother considering a ford product...everybody knows you never buy a first year ford product...same goes for anybody else...age of the plant has zero to do with the issues here...non union plant in texas idea i like though Edited October 24, 2019 by snooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, 2016RS said: The smoothness of a launch mainly depends on your workforce and the culture within the plant where it is being launched. This is true. I’m not a Ford employee nor do I have a lot of internal knowledge, but I think one can easily compare the success of the 2019 Ranger launch to the failure 2020 Explorer launch and draw some conclusions based on assembly plant morale effecting the rollout. Ford and others have blamed the Explorer and Aviator failures on the fact that they are building a very different vehicle with different processes. There is truth to that, but Michigan Assembly went from building the Focus which is a compact unibody passenger car to building a midsized body on frame pickup truck. Those are two totally different vehicles. They had some hiccups, but were able to pull it off through teamwork and appear to be building a quality product with few defects. I’d say corporate needs to get deep into Chicago and figure out what is going wrong. If those personnel issues are not fixed quality will suffer far beyond the launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, 2005Explorer said: This is true. I’m not a Ford employee nor do I have a lot of internal knowledge, but I think one can easily compare the success of the 2019 Ranger launch to the failure 2020 Explorer launch and draw some conclusions based on assembly plant morale effecting the rollout. Ford and others have blamed the Explorer and Aviator failures on the fact that they are building a very different vehicle with different processes. There is truth to that, but Michigan Assembly went from building the Focus which is a compact unibody passenger car to building a midsized body on frame pickup truck. Those are two totally different vehicles. They had some hiccups, but were able to pull it off through teamwork and appear to be building a quality product with few defects. I’d say corporate needs to get deep into Chicago and figure out what is going wrong. If those personnel issues are not fixed quality will suffer far beyond the launch. Apples and oranges. MAP had 6-8 months or longer to retool and test Ranger builds before job 1. There was no rush to get it out the door. It was also a vehicle that was already in production with a few tweaks, not a completely new platform and 2 different bodies and interiors plus hybrid power trains. Not saying CAP doesn’t have employee issues and I’m sure that’s part of the problem but that’s not a good analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) The Ranger had a VERY slow startup however, and it still had lots of problems to sort despite manufacturing a product they've already been making elsewhere for years. Not to mention the factory was down for months to transition from Focus to Ranger. The problem with the Explorer launch is that they are replacing a high-volume singe-plant vehicle from the factory floor up which makes the delays and problems very obvious. When you phase in a new nameplate from scratch, you have more control. The 2021 F-150 is actually going to be phased in alongside the old F-150 and they have the benefits of two plants to feather things in, but what they are doing with Explorer and that plant was a HUGE undertaking for the company. I think you have to be inside the company unfortunately to understand how immensely complex this changeover has been. The Escape and Corsair are going relatively smoothly, but it's worth pointing out that the plant wasn't replaced in the changeover. But after this year the products are mostly new nameplates, not replacements...until 2023 anyway. Edited October 24, 2019 by Assimilator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Hackett turning the company over to the beancounters is beginning to show. Pitiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) Nevermind, I'm going to get myself into trouble. Edited October 24, 2019 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) On 10/22/2019 at 1:13 PM, jasonj80 said: Its not like this is new at Chicago - It has always been S*** when it came to worker problems, and crap build quality. Ford should have closed Chicago and kept Atlanta in 2006. Atlanta always had better quality numbers than Chicago. Only thing I can think of was accountants got involved and realized that the land in Chicago was worthless and the land in Atlanta was with tens of millions, never mind the long term cost of those choices. If the GM strike has cost 2B in 30 days, what has it cost Ford with the QC issues over the last 5 months? Edited October 24, 2019 by blwnsmoke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 21 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said: If the GM strike has cost 2B in 30 days, what has it cost Ford with the QC issues over the last 5 months? We on the outside will never no for sure, however as long as the bulk of these can be fixed and sold that will help cushion some of those losses. At this point the strike has gone on so long that GM will never be able to recoup those losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Nevermind, I'm going to get myself into trouble. Don't get yourself jammed-up kid. We need you to stick around and build the next gen of Bronco's & Rangers. HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 3 hours ago, MKII said: Hackett turning the company over to the beancounters is beginning to show. Pitiful. I've lived through corporate budgeting and cost cutting for 30+ years. This is not beancounter cost cutting. This is Hackett diverting all available resources to get new products and projects out the door. People and capital budgets are pretty much fixed, so funding new endeavors and new vehicles requires cutting costs and resources on other programs. That's just how it works. I have a business need to build 120 widgets next year at a cost of about $3M per widget but we'll probably only be funded for half that. Other projects with positive business cases just have to be put on the back burner due to lack of funding. And it's not because of cost cutting - those funds are being used to accelerate more mission critical projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, akirby said: And it's not because of cost cutting - those funds are being used to accelerate more mission critical projects. After the F150, what is the most profitable high volume product for Ford? Gotta be budgeted to be the Explorer and especially the Aviator. If that doesn't meet the definition of mission critical, what does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 53 minutes ago, Harley Lover said: After the F150, what is the most profitable high volume product for Ford? Gotta be budgeted to be the Explorer and especially the Aviator. If that doesn't meet the definition of mission critical, what does? The two big things with the Explorer/Aviator s its on again/off again development and apparently plant employee issues. Not mention the current management was brought in towards the end of development for the program. Lets see how Mach E, new F-150, Bronco and Baby Bronco launches go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Harley Lover said: After the F150, what is the most profitable high volume product for Ford? Gotta be budgeted to be the Explorer and especially the Aviator. If that doesn't meet the definition of mission critical, what does? That's today, but they're looking at 5-10 years from now so Bronco, new Ranger, Mach E, Hybrid and Electric F150, other BEVs and Hybrids, autonomous vehicles, etc. There are a lot of new things that Ford is betting on for the future. But that doesn't mean they ignored Explorer and Aviator. I'm just saying they didn't get a lot of extra resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 3 hours ago, blwnsmoke said: If the GM strike has cost 2B in 30 days, what has it cost Ford with the QC issues over the last 5 months? Well they said in the 3rd Quarter call that higher warrantee costs are causing a cut in full year profit guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, jasonj80 said: Well they said in the 3rd Quarter call that higher warrantee costs are causing a cut in full year profit guidance. And that's the gamble - put extra time and resources on it up front to minimize repair costs or gamble that it won't be too bad. I think they lost on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, akirby said: And that's the gamble - put extra time and resources on it up front to minimize repair costs or gamble that it won't be too bad. I think they lost on this one. Patch and Pray. It is also seems to be the motto of how we fix infrastructure and roads in Michigan. Seems logical that companies based here adopt the same policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 12 hours ago, snooter said: They have only been pushing quality for 20+ years now so a refocus is a joke..if they have not got there crap together by now why should we even bother considering a ford product...everybody knows you never buy a first year ford product...same goes for anybody else...age of the plant has zero to do with the issues here...non union plant in texas idea i like though I have an '09 Flex with 144k on it and it's only ever had minor issues. (**knocks on wood**). 5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Nevermind, I'm going to get myself into trouble. Aw, I'm sad I missed it haha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I have an '09 Flex with 144k on it and it's only ever had minor issues. (**knocks on wood**). My ‘10 Flex has 130k and has been a tank. It makes my ‘15 Edge look like a lemon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 3 hours ago, akirby said: But that doesn't mean they ignored Explorer and Aviator. I'm just saying they didn't get a lot of extra resources. Which is bullshit when you really think about it. They've always said Explorer is one of their most profitable product lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 35 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Which is bullshit when you really think about it. They've always said Explorer is one of their most profitable product lines. It's not about Explorer - it's about the other stuff and how important it is. E.g., let's say the Explorer launch allowed them to speed up Bronco or Mach-E by 2 months. How much are 2 months of sales of those going to be worth versus some repair costs and a month or two of lower Explorer sales? There is no permanent damage on Explorer. That's how these things are decided at a corporate level when you have a shortage of resources. And you ALWAYS have a shortage of resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 5 hours ago, sullynd said: My ‘10 Flex has 130k and has been a tank. It makes my ‘15 Edge look like a lemon. My wife says that her Fusion was a lemon compared to her 2005 Five Hundred. We sold that car to my son who sold it to a friend. It has 290K on it now and it's still running well. Both rear wheel arches are rusted through, but it's still a tank. First 150K miles it had brakes, tires, wiper blades, tune ups, and struts replaced. At 175K the alternator went out. At 205K the a/c compressor went out. It was sold at 225K so I have no idea what's been done since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 57 minutes ago, 351cid said: My wife says that her Fusion was a lemon compared to her 2005 Five Hundred. We sold that car to my son who sold it to a friend. It has 290K on it now and it's still running well. Both rear wheel arches are rusted through, but it's still a tank. First 150K miles it had brakes, tires, wiper blades, tune ups, and struts replaced. At 175K the alternator went out. At 205K the a/c compressor went out. It was sold at 225K so I have no idea what's been done since. It sounds like the 500 was an excellent car and the Fusion a very good car. Most of what you listed are items that wear out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.