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Ford’s Rating Inches Toward Junk at S&P on ‘Subpar’ Performance


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On 10/27/2019 at 11:02 AM, fordtech1 said:

Like any new construction, chances are a parking garage will be made, restaurants  will come in, maybe even be in the train station. Mass transit could be brought in.

 

Obviously you do not live in the Metro Detroit area !  There is ZERO "effective" mass transit !  In Detroit there there are TWO trains to nowhere !  Bus service is poor and does not cover much of the suburbs.

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4 hours ago, theoldwizard said:

 

Obviously you do not live in the Metro Detroit area !  There is ZERO "effective" mass transit !  In Detroit there there are TWO trains to nowhere !  Bus service is poor and does not cover much of the suburbs.

Yeah I’ve been there a several times but don’t live there. I guess I was thinking the bus services and I have used that people mover around the cobo center. 

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Every time Ford tries to diversify from its core business, it pays dearly for it. So I wonder how long it will be before we see another change of plans.

 

AV has been scaled  back to TC and moved to Mexico, Mobility plans saw some big losses and now Ford is doubling down on BEVs only because it’s convinced that buyers will pay premium prices for them..... so after all the money is spent, what if demand is still really low, what then for Ford.

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The problem with the BEV's is the infrastructure of our power grids. We're probably 15-20 years away from updating home electrical service to carry the load when 80% of the houses have their commuter cars plugged in at night. Look at CA right now. If you think those people are pissed now; imagine how they'd be if they were unable to drive away.

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Ford is very diversified in-terms of electrification, far more than any other company.  I also think they may have a genius move with the Mach E by tieing it to the Mustang.  Originally the Mach-E was developed under Fields with VERY modest aspirations, it was basically just another slightly better compliance car...they even called it the C-EV because C-Max.  It was blandly styled but competent enough, absolutely generic.  Hacket and Jim Farley drove them back to the drawing board and Farley initiated the Mustang transformation and turned it into a performance focused vehicle.  It should stand out better than most non-Tesla BEVs with clearer messaging and bolder styling.

 

And Ford's electrification scale spans every model and genre, it's pretty comprehensive.  I have a hard time believing Ford doesn't have a winning solution in that mix. 

 

The problem with Hackett for Wall Street is they didn't cut jobs which would have had an immediate impact, instead they've restructured development which takes a much longer time to realize.  Instant results are painful, people should be thankful Hackett isn't Wall Street.  

Edited by Assimilator
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7 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

The problem with Hackett for Wall Street is they didn't cut jobs which would have had an immediate impact, instead they've restructured development which takes a much longer time to realize.  Instant results are painful, people should be thankful Hackett isn't Wall Street.  

 

Absolutely.  I think it was Adam Jonas, of Morgan Stanley, who was clearly disappointed that Ford didn't fire more people.  Wall Street loves it when manufacturers (of any sort) fire people.  Wall Street also wants Ford to eliminate paying a dividend.  Big-name investors are uncomfortable with a CEO that is doing things differently.

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24 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

The problem with Hackett for Wall Street is they didn't cut jobs which would have had an immediate impact, instead they've restructured development which takes a much longer time to realize.  Instant results are painful, people should be thankful Hackett isn't Wall Street.  

 

Double post

Edited by mackinaw
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21 minutes ago, probowler said:

Dang, Divdends are one of the reasons I own Ford stock. I hope they don't get rid of it.

 

Me too, dividends can add up. 

 

The Ford Family also gets Ford dividends.....a lot of them.......so I suspect the pressure will be on to keep paying them.  But if times really do get tough, I suspect dividends will be the first thing to go.

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2 hours ago, Assimilator said:

Ford is very diversified in-terms of electrification, far more than any other company.  I also think they may have a genius move with the Mach E by tieing it to the Mustang.  Originally the Mach-E was developed under Fields with VERY modest aspirations, it was basically just another slightly better compliance car...they even called it the C-EV because C-Max.  It was blandly styled but competent enough, absolutely generic.  Hacket and Jim Farley drove them back to the drawing board and Farley initiated the Mustang transformation and turned it into a performance focused vehicle.  It should stand out better than most non-Tesla BEVs with clearer messaging and bolder styling.

 

And Ford's electrification scale spans every model and genre, it's pretty comprehensive.  I have a hard time believing Ford doesn't have a winning solution in that mix. 

 

The problem with Hackett for Wall Street is they didn't cut jobs which would have had an immediate impact, instead they've restructured development which takes a much longer time to realize.  Instant results are painful, people should be thankful Hackett isn't Wall Street.  

By now it should be painfully obvious that Jim Hackett well intended as he may be is just terrible at engaging Wall Street and Analysts and conveying to them exactly what Ford is doing- they can’t see the plan without someone spelling it out.

 

The concern I have with the BEVs is Ford getting ahead of itself by slapping an extra $10k on Mach E because of it’s association with Mustang. Price not products is the key here

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4 hours ago, Assimilator said:

Ford is very diversified in-terms of electrification, far more than any other company.  I also think they may have a genius move with the Mach E by tieing it to the Mustang.  Originally the Mach-E was developed under Fields with VERY modest aspirations, it was basically just another slightly better compliance car...they even called it the C-EV because C-Max.  It was blandly styled but competent enough, absolutely generic.  Hacket and Jim Farley drove them back to the drawing board and Farley initiated the Mustang transformation and turned it into a performance focused vehicle.  It should stand out better than most non-Tesla BEVs with clearer messaging and bolder styling.

 

And Ford's electrification scale spans every model and genre, it's pretty comprehensive.  I have a hard time believing Ford doesn't have a winning solution in that mix. 

 

The problem with Hackett for Wall Street is they didn't cut jobs which would have had an immediate impact, instead they've restructured development which takes a much longer time to realize.  Instant results are painful, people should be thankful Hackett isn't Wall Street.  

 

Kudos to Hackett and Farley for transforming a “blandly styled but competent enough, absolutely generic” vehicle, but what happened with Escape? Those words describe it to a tee. What excuse is there to allow such a mediocre effort to see the light of day when it should be one of Ford’s best sellers?

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46 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

 

Kudos to Hackett and Farley for transforming a “blandly styled but competent enough, absolutely generic” vehicle, but what happened with Escape? Those words describe it to a tee. What excuse is there to allow such a mediocre effort to see the light of day when it should be one of Ford’s best sellers?

Here's the best answer to that question:

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/time-car-companies-wake-women-now-focus-industry/story?id=64087181

 

My wife loves the look of the new Escape... but fortunately for me she also loves the Aviator!!

 

 

Edited by CoolScoop
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29 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

 

Kudos to Hackett and Farley for transforming a “blandly styled but competent enough, absolutely generic” vehicle, but what happened with Escape? Those words describe it to a tee. What excuse is there to allow such a mediocre effort to see the light of day when it should be one of Ford’s best sellers?

 

Splitting of the market with this:

 

Image result for Baby Bronco"

 

People bitched about it changing in 2013 and it still outsold the boxy gen Escape

 

Calendar Year US Sales Australian Sales
Ford Escape Mercury Mariner Ford Escape
2000 42,635[83] N/A N/A
2001 164,184[84] N/A 2,842
2002 145,471[85] N/A  
2003 167,678   3,238
2004 183,430[86] Inc. 2,993 Hybrids 7,171 [87] 3,252
2005 165,122[86] Inc. 18,797 Hybrids 34,099  
2006 157,395[88] Inc. 20,149 Hybrids 33,941[89]  
2007 165,596 Inc. 21,386 Hybrids 34,844  
2008 156,544[90] Inc. 17,173 Hybrids 32,306[91]  
2009 173,044[92] Inc. 14,787 Hybrids 28,688[93]  
2010 191,026[94] Inc. 11,182 Hybrids 29,912[95]  
2011 254,293[96] Inc. 10,089 Hybrids N/A  
2012 261,008[97] Inc. 1,441 Hybrids[98] N/A  
2013 295,993[99] N/A N/A
2014 306,212[100] N/A N/A
2015 306,492[101] N/A N/A
2016 307,069[102] N/A  
2017 308,296[103] N/A  
2018 272,228[104] N/A  
Total     >9,332

 

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17 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Splitting of the market with this:

 

Image result for Baby Bronco"

 

People bitched about it changing in 2013 and it still outsold the boxy gen Escape

 

Calendar Year US Sales Australian Sales
Ford Escape Mercury Mariner Ford Escape
2000 42,635[83] N/A N/A
2001 164,184[84] N/A 2,842
2002 145,471[85] N/A  
2003 167,678   3,238
2004 183,430[86] Inc. 2,993 Hybrids 7,171 [87] 3,252
2005 165,122[86] Inc. 18,797 Hybrids 34,099  
2006 157,395[88] Inc. 20,149 Hybrids 33,941[89]  
2007 165,596 Inc. 21,386 Hybrids 34,844  
2008 156,544[90] Inc. 17,173 Hybrids 32,306[91]  
2009 173,044[92] Inc. 14,787 Hybrids 28,688[93]  
2010 191,026[94] Inc. 11,182 Hybrids 29,912[95]  
2011 254,293[96] Inc. 10,089 Hybrids N/A  
2012 261,008[97] Inc. 1,441 Hybrids[98] N/A  
2013 295,993[99] N/A N/A
2014 306,212[100] N/A N/A
2015 306,492[101] N/A N/A
2016 307,069[102] N/A  
2017 308,296[103] N/A  
2018 272,228[104] N/A  
Total     >9,332

 

 

The 2013 Escape was not bland and boring. You’re OK with a this type of an effort? I’ll bet you that Escape sales will suffer significantly without substantial rebates. 

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47 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

 

The 2013 Escape was not bland and boring. You’re OK with a this type of an effort? I’ll bet you that Escape sales will suffer significantly without substantial rebates. 

 

It will be fine for the market its aimed at-just because you don't like it doesn't mean it won't be successful in the market. 

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1 hour ago, Trader 10 said:

 

The 2013 Escape was not bland and boring. You’re OK with a this type of an effort? I’ll bet you that Escape sales will suffer significantly without substantial rebates. 

I'll counter that bet and say sales will take off because women will continue to be its main demographic and it was styled for them.  Ford knows most of us who think its boring wouldn't buy an Escape anyway.... no matter how it looks.

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19 minutes ago, CoolScoop said:

I'll counter that bet that say sales will take off because women will continue to be its main demographic.  Ford knows most of us who think its boring wouldn't buy an Escape anyway.... no matter how it looks.

 

LOL My wife has had two of them and she calls the current one a Station Wagon. She likes the Baby Bronco. Just goes to show you that everyone isn't a like. She prefers the styling of her 2010 vs the 2017 she has now. 

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3 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

LOL My wife has had two of them and she calls the current one a Station Wagon. She likes the Baby Bronco. Just goes to show you that everyone isn't a like. She prefers the styling of her 2010 vs the 2017 she has now. 

Sounds like the Baby Bronco will be perfect for her AND you... that's a win-win!!!

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5 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I'm planning on a full sized one, though the Mach E is really tempting me...I need a new car first and I was planning summer 2021 or so

I really wanted to hold off until the Mach E and Bronco were out before deciding on our next car... but the wife said we've waited long enough.  So I had to give in when she OK'd the Aviator GT for "her" next car!!!

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9 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

 

You may be right but I don’t think any market demographic will react favorably to bland. 

 

Uh Accord and Camry in their hey day would disagree with you on that one.

The Escape is the boring segment for people buying appliances. The Baby Bronco are for people who want something "cool" or neat

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