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Bronco and Bronco Sport World Premier July 13th!!


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9 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Three weeks tomorrow since I took delivery of mine, and both the design and engineering of these things is still blowing my mind. We played 2 gigs this weekend and both of them briefly turned into mini car shows with people wanting to crawl around my truck. Of course I let them... it was fun to talk Bronco with a bunch of car guys. They all loved it. 

HOWEVER... the MIC roof is quickly being exposed as the Achilles heel. I now have a few edges that are starting to show delamination, where the middle "core" layer of honeycomb material is starting to chip away between the outer and inner layers. Since the edges are "raw" and exposed, I can only imagine what seasonal changes will do to these things. My free sound-deadening headliner is also separating from the roof in several places, showing the vinyl "sticker" used between the raw MIC roof interior and the acoustical carpet.  A user at B6G also shared how the honeycomb core texture is now visible on the exterior of his roof after waxing it, likely the result of the outer layer being cast unevenly and the "thin" spots letting the core show through. 

I can't see how Ford doesn't end up having to replace every MIC roof that's left the factory so far. The design of it may work if the manufacturing were 100% flawless, but in reality it just isn't possible. 

 

I'm sure a lot of others will appreciate your review, especially about the MIC roof. 

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15 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Three weeks tomorrow since I took delivery of mine, and both the design and engineering of these things is still blowing my mind. We played 2 gigs this weekend and both of them briefly turned into mini car shows with people wanting to crawl around my truck. Of course I let them... it was fun to talk Bronco with a bunch of car guys. They all loved it. 

HOWEVER... the MIC roof is quickly being exposed as the Achilles heel. I now have a few edges that are starting to show delamination, where the middle "core" layer of honeycomb material is starting to chip away between the outer and inner layers. Since the edges are "raw" and exposed, I can only imagine what seasonal changes will do to these things. My free sound-deadening headliner is also separating from the roof in several places, showing the vinyl "sticker" used between the raw MIC roof interior and the acoustical carpet.  A user at B6G also shared how the honeycomb core texture is now visible on the exterior of his roof after waxing it, likely the result of the outer layer being cast unevenly and the "thin" spots letting the core show through. 

I can't see how Ford doesn't end up having to replace every MIC roof that's left the factory so far. The design of it may work if the manufacturing were 100% flawless, but in reality it just isn't possible. 

 

Hate hearing that about the MIC roof!  Sound like that may become a costly problem for Ford and Webasto to solve...

 

You got any pics of your issues?

 

Edited by danglin
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40 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Three weeks tomorrow since I took delivery of mine, and both the design and engineering of these things is still blowing my mind. We played 2 gigs this weekend and both of them briefly turned into mini car shows with people wanting to crawl around my truck. Of course I let them... it was fun to talk Bronco with a bunch of car guys. They all loved it. 

HOWEVER... the MIC roof is quickly being exposed as the Achilles heel. I now have a few edges that are starting to show delamination, where the middle "core" layer of honeycomb material is starting to chip away between the outer and inner layers. Since the edges are "raw" and exposed, I can only imagine what seasonal changes will do to these things. My free sound-deadening headliner is also separating from the roof in several places, showing the vinyl "sticker" used between the raw MIC roof interior and the acoustical carpet.  A user at B6G also shared how the honeycomb core texture is now visible on the exterior of his roof after waxing it, likely the result of the outer layer being cast unevenly and the "thin" spots letting the core show through. 

I can't see how Ford doesn't end up having to replace every MIC roof that's left the factory so far. The design of it may work if the manufacturing were 100% flawless, but in reality it just isn't possible. 

 

So glad you are loving your Bronco, but man that sucks about the roof.  Are you going to push for a replacement for yours once they have it figured out?

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Can someone tell me why Ford is continuing their relationship with Webasto? I get "contracts and legal obligations" but at this point Webasto has proven to be fraudulent and they can't deliver as promised. Total breach of contract in my book but I am no lawyer. It seems beyond ridiculous at this point to try and salvage Webasto. It's like using buckets to prevent the Titanic from sinking.

 

If I were Ford I would put an immediate course of action in place for a different supplier or bring in house ASAP.  Obviously, do it under secrecy and utilize Webasto (scrutinized for quality) until they get an alternative in place.

 

This will go down as the most anticipated launch/vehicle in the past 20 years for Ford (maybe 2005 Mustang). Yet this is turned into the biggest debacle all because they didn't vett out a supplier for production capabilities and NOT HAVING A CONTINGENCY PLAN! I have no skin in the game other than being a share holder. Irritating.

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Screenshot_20210719-104330_Gallery.thumb.jpg.042d3d9b2c91037527497837342cbd91.jpg

 

This is at the front windshield where the 2 front panels meet. This was the first seam to start sagging, and I instinctively "poked" it back into place several times before bringing it to the attention of my dealer's service advisor. He has reached out to his rep to see what to do about this

Screenshot_20210719-104316_Gallery.thumb.jpg.9ab8300ff2d34be5876e49c5134ac5fa.jpg

This is at the back of the driver's side front panel near the B-pillar. The corner of the material was actually doubled-back and folded under it during installation. This also shows the fraying starting in the acoustic carpet and the uneven cuts in places around the latches. 

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This shows some of the exposed edges where you can see the 3 layers of laminate. The center layer has quickly faded to white / light gray and is showing cavities where material may have already been lost. 

20210719_103710.thumb.jpg.a47804df99986eb006006f7e8ee9f79d.jpg

The reveal line here on the passenger side clamshell appears to be flexing a bit, becoming wider in the center than it is at the edges. I've started measuring this to track how it changes. The drivers side is not doing this. 

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What is the top made of?  Most composites are notoriously hard to layup and will delaminate if the temperature or humidity vary outside a strict range.  We had a problem in a Mexico manufacturing facility with composite parts delaminating several years ago.  They had to spend several million to upgrade the climate control system to make sure that it didn't happen again.  Wonder if the supplier of the MIC top is being lax on quality control in order to just get parts out.

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7 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

What is the top made of?  Most composites are notoriously hard to layup and will delaminate if the temperature or humidity vary outside a strict range.  We had a problem in a Mexico manufacturing facility with composite parts delaminating several years ago.  They had to spend several million to upgrade the climate control system to make sure that it didn't happen again.  Wonder if the supplier of the MIC top is being lax on quality control in order to just get parts out.

The supplier - Webasto - is an absolute mess, with huge system issues over the last 18 months. 

I can't speak to the particular resins involved, but the basic structure is a textured outer panel and thin inner panel laminated around a core of lightweight honeycomb material. From what I can tell most delivered MIC units have at least some degree of problems. 

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1 hour ago, PREMiERdrum said:

The supplier - Webasto - is an absolute mess, with huge system issues over the last 18 months. 

I can't speak to the particular resins involved, but the basic structure is a textured outer panel and thin inner panel laminated around a core of lightweight honeycomb material. From what I can tell most delivered MIC units have at least some degree of problems. 

So that begs the question that has not been answered.  Why would Ford QC allow these tops to pass inspection, install the tops on Broncos and deliver these to customers?  It’s an absolute shame and will cost Ford more money in the long term.  Thankfully I switched one of my orders to an ugly soft top.  

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1 hour ago, 02MustangGT said:

So that begs the question that has not been answered.  Why would Ford QC allow these tops to pass inspection, install the tops on Broncos and deliver these to customers?  It’s an absolute shame and will cost Ford more money in the long term.  Thankfully I switched one of my orders to an ugly soft top.  


One has to assume they aren’t leaving the factory this way and that this shows up after some  use.  But even if it was there isn’t much they can do about it at this point.

 

Screwed once again by a supplier.  

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25 minutes ago, akirby said:


One has to assume they aren’t leaving the factory this way and that this shows up after some  use.  But even if it was there isn’t much they can do about it at this point.

 

Screwed once again by a supplier.  

Unfortunately, there have been plenty that arrived for customer delivery with poorly-fabricated tops including delaminating edges  and obvious areas where the mould wasn't fully filled with material. 

I've been one of the "lucky" ones whose top arrived without issues, but it's obvious now there there may be some degree of failure baked into the design. 

Looking at mine three weeks in, there isn't an apparent fix beyond replacing the whole roof unit. Multiply that out time about 65% of orders on a hotly-received product earning tons of free press and 125,000 pre-orders and the situation gets really bad really quick. 

They should pull the plug on the MIC entirely until it can be reworked, promise existing MIC owners a new roof unit once it becomes available, and provide a soft top kit to those whose MIC roofs become unusable (this will happen once we get into the freeze/thaw cycles around here). 

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24 minutes ago, akirby said:


One has to assume they aren’t leaving the factory this way and that this shows up after some  use.  But even if it was there isn’t much they can do about it at this point.

 

Screwed once again by a supplier.  

One would assume… For certain, there are defective tops leaving the factory.  Otherwise a customer wouldn’t end up with missing sound deadener on a panel or 2 and delaminating/fit/finish defects the day after taking delivery.    

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45 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

One would assume… For certain, there are defective tops leaving the factory.  Otherwise a customer wouldn’t end up with missing sound deadener on a panel or 2 and delaminating/fit/finish defects the day after taking delivery.    


Sounds like you’re right.  I thought these issues were only showing up after a few weeks.   

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Got to sit in a 2 door badlands today. Seats were comfortable. Materials seemed good to me. Yeah, the dash is hard plastic but it didn’t feel cheap. Felt like it belonged on this type of vehicle. MGV seats were better than I was thinking they’d be. It’s definitely nothing like the vinyl seats you’d see in a work truck. The optional 33’s looked great. Overall it looks to be a great product.
 

only real complaint was that my head would hit the cross bar when sitting in the back seat. You’d have to be sitting straight up for it to happen, like if you were trying to put your head on the headrest, so it’s not a huge deal because most people don’t sit like that, but on some bumpy terrain I could see someone accidentally hitting their head. I wonder if the 4 door has this same problem or if it has a bit more room?

Edited by T-dubz
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18 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Unfortunately, there have been plenty that arrived for customer delivery with poorly-fabricated tops including delaminating edges  and obvious areas where the mould wasn't fully filled with material. 

I've been one of the "lucky" ones whose top arrived without issues, but it's obvious now there there may be some degree of failure baked into the design. 

Looking at mine three weeks in, there isn't an apparent fix beyond replacing the whole roof unit. Multiply that out time about 65% of orders on a hotly-received product earning tons of free press and 125,000 pre-orders and the situation gets really bad really quick. 

They should pull the plug on the MIC entirely until it can be reworked, promise existing MIC owners a new roof unit once it becomes available, and provide a soft top kit to those whose MIC roofs become unusable (this will happen once we get into the freeze/thaw cycles around here). 

 

Ross, thanks for the "ugly truth"...this has me re-thinking my order to the point that I just may throw in the towel on my 4 door Black Diamond with MIC top....

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5 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Ross, thanks for the "ugly truth"...this has me re-thinking my order to the point that I just may throw in the towel on my 4 door Black Diamond with MIC top....


If I didn't have a blend day this week, along with the insane resale value of my truck right now I'd probably be in the same boat.

 

Wait a few years until this is all figured out, I'm violating the rule that everyone in the industry knows -- never buy the first model year of a new model. 
 

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7 minutes ago, sullynd said:

Interesting sub tweets by Farley here:

 

 

I'm a little troubled that the severity of the roof issues legitimately might not have made it up the chain in Dearborn until now...

Jalopnik put out a piece today about the MIC roof issues linking to the B6G thread that had my pics and info, and Motor1 did the same. The trees are starting to shake. Wonder what will fall out?

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12 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

I'm a little troubled that the severity of the roof issues legitimately might not have made it up the chain in Dearborn until now...

Jalopnik put out a piece today about the MIC roof issues linking to the B6G thread that had my pics and info, and Motor1 did the same. The trees are starting to shake. Wonder what will fall out?

 

You know if they stop shipping Bronco's everybody will blame you.  They always kill the messenger,,,,,

 

HRG

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11 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

I'm a little troubled that the severity of the roof issues legitimately might not have made it up the chain in Dearborn until now...

Jalopnik put out a piece today about the MIC roof issues linking to the B6G thread that had my pics and info, and Motor1 did the same. The trees are starting to shake. Wonder what will fall out?



added some screenshots for everyone else to see.

4AAECDD5-C384-4213-BE02-AB7466742132.png

6234252E-8AC2-4280-AE71-40A63F2AE149.png

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New today: my MIC roof has developed the "snakeskin" texture of another early build, where the honeycomb core actually shows thru the outer laminate panel. The raw seam down the back of my clamshell also shows signs of delamination and a lot more material shedding.

 

I've had it 3 weeks. 

 

 

delamination 2.jpg

delamination 1.jpg

snakeskin 2.jpg

snakeskin 1.jpg

Edited by PREMiERdrum
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