Bronco and Bronco Sport World Premier July 13th!!

[Deanh]

49 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

There is a 2 year "ish" window; 2023MY will be Jan 1st, 2022 for sales and last day of production is Dec 31st 2023.  However this is where it gets weird a manufacture can build a 2023 in 2021 but can't sell it until Jan 1, 2022. 

sheesh!....good time to start drinking at work....

[jasonj80]

42 minutes ago, Deanh said:

sheesh!....good time to start drinking at work....

After the news today that I'm not getting my Bronco before Dec it would be a good day to leave early and start an early weekend. Might swing by the dealer and talk to them about getting a new F-150 on my way, see what they have coming in and what is spoken for; the more I think of the Bronco the more I'm done with it for 2 or 3 years. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by jasonj80

[danglin]

5 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

The hammer has dropped. 

New tooling being developed for the MIC hardtop. NO new MIC units being built until then. 

 

ALL MIC tops will be replaced once the new tooling is installed and production ramps up. The roughly 2,200 Broncos trapped at MAP will remain there well into October until the roof units can be replaced with the new design. 

Only after all that happens will MIC Hardtops be available for new production. 

 

First Editions are guaranteed to be produced before the model year changeover, but most remaining MIC hardtop units will likely shift to MY22. 

 

Looks like my latest build date (9/27) is going to be pushed for a fourth time!!!  

[silvrsvt]

So saw this on Facebook-so best case is that the sandlot/bad batch Bronco will finally be released by the end of November. 

 

The real question is do we think they are gonna have a flawless launch of the new tops-I’m thinking no, after what has happened over the past year and half. 

 

[mackinaw]

11 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

The real question is do we think they are gonna have a flawless launch of the new tops-I’m thinking no, after what has happened over the past year and half. 

 

Maybe not flawless, but pretty close to it.  You think Ford wants to go through this again?

[Deanh]

41 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

So saw this on Facebook-so best case is that the sandlot/bad batch Bronco will finally be released by the end of November. 

 

The real question is do we think they are gonna have a flawless launch of the new tops-I’m thinking no, after what has happened over the past year and half. 

 

I for one applaud this....better to have people pissed and voicing opinion about that, than saturating any and all "sites" with quality concerns....one is definitely more damaging than the other...

[Anthony]

Ouch. That sucks and really puts a damper on one of the most important launches in a decade.  
 

Reminds me of the Focus debacle (great car, shitty transmission…which Ford knew about beforehand).  It makes you wonder how much Ford hand-waved to get production going and figure out later. 

 

I hope you guys who either have their Broncos or are waiting on one that it all works out for you in the end. 

[akirby]

42 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Reminds me of the Focus debacle (great car, shitty transmission…which Ford knew about beforehand).  It makes you wonder how much Ford hand-waved to get production going and figure out later. 

By all appearances the pre production versions were perfect, otherwise the reviewers would have mentioned it.  But those were built elsewhere.  I don’t think the people in charge knew about it until well into production.

[jasonj80]

2 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

Maybe not flawless, but pretty close to it.  You think Ford wants to go through this again?

Judging by all the false starts, complete lack of communication and problems with this launch I’m not sure how much they care about individuals as they have pent up demand and customers for a while will keep buying, the question is what are they going to do with all the soft tops and wear issues that seem to be cropping up with rubbing and scratches. 
 

I’m not sure if anyone else did, but I never got an email today from Ford, I got a call from my dealer this morning who told me about the pre dealer communication and read the headlines on the internet and message forums. 

 

I full suspect they will be still be delivering these units in March 2022 or later next year. Ford needs to focus on hiring great engineers vs every person needs to have a MBA engineer. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by jasonj80

[rmc523]

11 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

That is my issue, I find the timetable laughable at this point with all they need to do, I just assume it will be Feb/March before it shows up; I'm really leaning toward walking away and will decide this weekend and talk to friends at Ford and see what the real story is. I really don't want to own a car long term that has sat for 6+ month with a top that is possibly leaking that is sitting in a field. What is odd is it shows until July 21 for the action, I was built on July 22, and I know people that have builds that were done last week I assume we are also getting new tops but will be at the very end of getting a replacement top.

Worse I'm also taking delivery of a 2021 car in 2022 as well and I'm not even sure how they will complete an unfinished 2021 in 2022 as they will be in violation of federal law on production dates which may add a whole new wrinkle to this debacle. Oh yeah we got your top done but were not legally allowed to sell it to you. They have a best interest to just keep saying a few months a few months as if they say 6months more and more people will bail. 

 

You can sell an new "older" vehicle in a later model year.

 

Just in June, we saw Toyota sell a new FJ Cruiser which ended production years ago.  I think Dodge found a Dart somewhere that ended production years ago too.  Not saying it's ideal, but selling an older vehicle in a later model year doesn't seem to be illegal.

[rperez817]

11 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

You can sell an new "older" vehicle in a later model year.

 

Just in June, we saw Toyota sell a new FJ Cruiser which ended production years ago.  I think Dodge found a Dart somewhere that ended production years ago too.  Not saying it's ideal, but selling an older vehicle in a later model year doesn't seem to be illegal.

 

Yes sir rmc523. An extreme example is the 2014 Lotus Evora sold new by a dealership in Connecticut to a customer in February 2021. Someone Just Bought the Oldest New Car for Sale in the U.S. (caranddriver.com)

[rmc523]

Ultimately this sucks - especially for those who have models produced but waiting in purgatory - but also seems like the right thing to do. 

 

Ford doesn't want bad tops out there for people to further complain about, nor do they want to run the risk of shipping those new tops if they don't have to.

 

The opposite approach would be like the PowerShift - basically ignoring it and sticking their heads in the sand, so I appreciate this approach, even if it's painful for all parties involved.

 

Meanwhile, my wait for '23MY continues.... lol.

[rperez817]

5 hours ago, mackinaw said:

Maybe not flawless, but pretty close to it.  You think Ford wants to go through this again?

 

Soon after becoming Ford CEO, Jim Farley mentioned something about achieving flawless new product launches as a personal goal. The big question: is Ford capable of executing a flawless new product launch? 

[sullynd]

19 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Soon after becoming Ford CEO, Jim Farley mentioned something about achieving flawless new product launches as a personal goal. The big question: is Ford capable of executing a flawless new product launch? 

Mach-E was pretty close. A few early models had issues with the 12v battery, but was fixed quickly. 

[sullynd]

30 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir rmc523. An extreme example is the 2014 Lotus Evora sold new by a dealership in Connecticut to a customer in February 2021. Someone Just Bought the Oldest New Car for Sale in the U.S. (caranddriver.com)

Someone also bought an FJ Cruiser in 2021, 2014 was the last model year in the US.  (Ha, didn’t see RMCs post you replied to).

Edited August 13, 2021 by sullynd

[akirby]

2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Soon after becoming Ford CEO, Jim Farley mentioned something about achieving flawless new product launches as a personal goal. The big question: is Ford capable of executing a flawless new product launch? 

Let’s not pretend this was anything close to a normal launch of a new vehicle,  2 models, 2 bodies, 3 powertrains, 2 removable tops, 5 models, Sasquatch, removable doors plus a few dozen brand new features and accessories.  That’s easily triple the amount of work for Bronco Sport or Maverick, if not more.  
 

It’s fair to blame them for screwups but they deserve some credit for the difficulty level and what they were able to pull off.

[akirby]

I mean it would have been easy to launch a vanilla 4 door 2.7 auto with one top and 3 trims and no new features.

[Harley Lover]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

Let’s not pretend this was anything close to a normal launch of a new vehicle,  2 models, 2 bodies, 3 powertrains, 2 removable tops, 5 models, Sasquatch, removable doors plus a few dozen brand new features and accessories.  That’s easily triple the amount of work for Bronco Sport or Maverick, if not more.  
 

It’s fair to blame them for screwups but they deserve some credit for the difficulty level and what they were able to pull off.

 

Disagree. After what happened with Explorer, they don't deserve any "credit" for royally f***ing up what is arguably their biggest product launch in years. This is killing all the good will the inherent goodness of the product created. Even moreso they don't deserve credit after all the bravado in the run up to introduction in which we were all assured that "we got this". 

 

It was Ford's decision to go with a product launch that not "anything close to a launch of a new vehicle". They could have chosen to go slow(er) and get it right, but in their hubris and clusterf**k egos, they chose this path, and are amply demonstrating their incompetence for the world to see. Too bad there's not a Joe Hinrichs around to assign blame to when you need him, huh? Oh, and rperez, about Hackett's wonderful streamlining of the organization and what wonders it's wrought, please enlighten us on how that's working out in the case of Bronco. 

 

At the end of the day, Bronco is a permutation of a truck, which is supposed to be in the heart of Ford's wheelhouse. Sorry, but no excuses allowed or accepted. That this has occurred should be cause for heads to roll and asses to get kicked. 

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Disagree. After what happened with Explorer, they don't deserve any "credit" for royally f***ing up what is arguably their biggest product launch in years. This is killing all the good will the inherent goodness of the product created. Even moreso they don't deserve credit after all the bravado in the run up to introduction in which we were all assured that "we got this". 

 

It was Ford's decision to go with a product launch that not "anything close to a launch of a new vehicle". They could have chosen to go slow(er) and get it right, but in their hubris and clusterf**k egos, they chose this path, and are amply demonstrating their incompetence for the world to see. Too bad there's not a Joe Hinrichs around to assign blame to when you need him, huh? Oh, and rperez, about Hackett's wonderful streamlining of the organization and what wonders it's wrought, please enlighten us on how that's working out in the case of Bronco. 

 

At the end of the day, Bronco is a permutation of a truck, which is supposed to be in the heart of Ford's wheelhouse. Sorry, but no excuses allowed or accepted. That this has occurred should be cause for heads to roll and asses to get kicked. 

 

Keeping in mind that I'm one of the people affected by this-

 

The biggest issue with this launch a COSMETIC issue with the hard tops. Not to say it couldn't turn into a major issue (i.e. water leaks, etc) down the road, but ultimately it is "just" an appearance issue.

 

That isn't to say there isn't someone at fault here...the whole roof issue has been cursed since its inception:

Webasto screwing up permits to built the plant back in 2019

The biggest thing that stick out to my head is what happened back in March 2020-The plant wasn't even up and running at that point and that was right before COVID. The Bronco was on track to be launched in December of that year. Even if COVID didn't hit, How did they expect to put out flawless tops 9 months later? I'm not sure exactly when the plant actually came up and running, but it appears that Ford had its own employees working there back in the Spring six month or less ago. I know if I was running this program (without a frame of reference of how manufacturing works-maybe six months is considered enough time), I'd be telling my management that the schedule is at risk of slipping. Heck I'm working on a program that needs two PCs ordered and I'm already telling my management we are in danger of missing our end of January 2022 cutoff date because of everything going on-to ensure that the PCs get ordered and to us before that-Federal End of Year is coming up, COVID travel restrictions, the holidays, etc is all making that possible.  

 

 

[silvrsvt]

14 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

Maybe not flawless, but pretty close to it.  You think Ford wants to go through this again?

 

Put me in the doubters group, but given how much of a tortured process the Bronco has been for Ford, why should I expect their luck to change now?  

[Harley Lover]

58 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

The biggest issue with this launch a COSMETIC issue with the hard tops. Not to say it couldn't turn into a major issue (i.e. water leaks, etc) down the road, but ultimately it is "just" an appearance issue.

 

Disagree. It's not just a "COSMETIC" issue - it's a fundamental failure on the part of Ford to meet both its customers' and its own stated expectations for the introduction of this product. Be honest - you're pissed; so are a multitude of others with orders that have now been delayed yet again. 

 

That's just the ones with orders who can't get their Bronco due to this failure. Multiply that by the huge black eye Ford are getting in terms of reputation, following on the heels of what happened with Explorer. 

 

Perhaps in some ways it's a tempest in a teapot - maybe a big deal to those close to the situation, and hardly a blip on the radar to those removed from the industry.  I don't know. I'm only speaking for myself when I write that Ford and its failure here are inexcusable. And for those writing it off to the "complicated launch", that was the same damn excuse for Explorer - 'oh my, they gutted the whole plant, and blah blah blah'. Apparently Ford didn't learn a thing from that mistake, since they doubled down and went for another complicated launch. But let's not forget: 'nobody knows trucks like Ford!'.

 

If would be one thing if the product could be built, shipped to the dealers, and consumers could buy the product off the lot. Since Ford have embraced the 'custom order' model, any hiccup will be amplified by those who have ordered a product and the media. And since Farley has stated this model of purchasing is the future, it will only put an even higher importance on the proper launch of products. Who here still believes Ford when they assure us "we got this"?

[akirby]

4 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Disagree. After what happened with Explorer, they don't deserve any "credit" for royally f***ing up what is arguably their biggest product launch in years. This is killing all the good will the inherent goodness of the product created. Even moreso they don't deserve credit after all the bravado in the run up to introduction in which we were all assured that "we got this". 

 

It was Ford's decision to go with a product launch that not "anything close to a launch of a new vehicle". They could have chosen to go slow(er) and get it right, but in their hubris and clusterf**k egos, they chose this path, and are amply demonstrating their incompetence for the world to see. Too bad there's not a Joe Hinrichs around to assign blame to when you need him, huh? Oh, and rperez, about Hackett's wonderful streamlining of the organization and what wonders it's wrought, please enlighten us on how that's working out in the case of Bronco. 

 

At the end of the day, Bronco is a permutation of a truck, which is supposed to be in the heart of Ford's wheelhouse. Sorry, but no excuses allowed or accepted. That this has occurred should be cause for heads to roll and asses to get kicked. 

 

Why do you people automatically equate REASONS to EXCUSES??  
 

Are you seriously saying the Bronco launch was no more complicated than Ranger or Bronco Sport?    Seriously?

That doesn’t excuse the roof issue but every new thing is a potential screw up and Bronco has dozens of them compared to just a few for most other vehicles, even brand new ones like Bronco Sport and Maverick.

 

If you try to launch 25 new things all at the same time and you get 23 right, that’s not bad.  Now the roof issue and the customer impact was terrible but to ignore all the things they managed to get right just isn’t fair.

 

The lesson here is they tried to do too much at launch and overpromised and underdelivered.  The top design was too ambitious and the timeline was too short.  In hindsight they should have just delayed the hardtop until it was proven.

 

Stop calling us cheerleaders when we’re just being objective.

[FordBuyer]

20 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Why do you people automatically equate REASONS to EXCUSES??  
 

Are you seriously saying the Bronco launch was no more complicated than Ranger or Bronco Sport?    Seriously?

That doesn’t excuse the roof issue but every new thing is a potential screw up and Bronco has dozens of them compared to just a few for most other vehicles, even brand new ones like Bronco Sport and Maverick.

 

If you try to launch 25 new things all at the same time and you get 23 right, that’s not bad.  Now the roof issue and the customer impact was terrible but to ignore all the things they managed to get right just isn’t fair.

 

The lesson here is they tried to do too much at launch and overpromised and underdelivered.  The top design was too ambitious and the timeline was too short.  In hindsight they should have just delayed the hardtop until it was proven.

 

Stop calling us cheerleaders when we’re just being objective.

 

After watching upteen You Tube reviews, it's fair to say that the Bronco is a very complex vehicle that performs very well. Even the top is complex with latches and various openings. It's also much bigger than the Jeep and has more features. So 1st year issues are not surprising. I wouldn't compare Bronco problems to the myriad problems of the Explorer launch. After all, MAP builds the problem free Ranger and build quality on Bronco looks good. The top is fixable and not the end of the world. Covid may be, but not Webastco tops.

[silvrsvt]

Got the dreaded email...of course on a Friday the 13th LOL

[akirby]

1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

After watching upteen You Tube reviews, it's fair to say that the Bronco is a very complex vehicle that performs very well. Even the top is complex with latches and various openings. It's also much bigger than the Jeep and has more features. So 1st year issues are not surprising. I wouldn't compare Bronco problems to the myriad problems of the Explorer launch. After all, MAP builds the problem free Ranger and build quality on Bronco looks good. The top is fixable and not the end of the world. Covid may be, but not Webastco tops.

 

The most complicated part of the Explorer launch was the complete factory retooling and the new HEV and PHEV powertrains with RWD.  The rest of the vehicle was pretty standard unibody stuff.