Bronco and Bronco Sport World Premier July 13th!!

[Dirty Bronco]

My biggest gripe with this whole launch is the lack of communication from Ford. From the moment they released the video footage back in July 2020 the communication has been bad. The Bronco Nation is suppose to be a conduit from Ford to the consumer. However, many generic questions on that forum fall on deaf ears. Simple questions like tire/wheel specifications were kept in the dark for months post release. Now Ford is cracking down hard on the employee who was taking photos of the preproduction units. I understand completely that you should never take photos that could show potential OSHA hazards or unreleased specifications. However, all the information was made public yet Ford did not have a steady stream of communication to the public. The Bronco Nation had a Q/A session early on and stated that they'd be doing those regularly. That never materialized. I went to two Dealer Demo events and was floored at how uniformed their reps were. I don't blame the reps, I blame Ford for not training them up or having an enthusiast there to answer any and all questions. This is an enthusiast driven vehicle, get the enthusiasts on the forums answering what they can. Ford Motor Company has a generic account on B6G who has been copy and pasting the same generic message over and over stating "We are listening". It's basically the equivalent of calling a support line and getting an automated answering system. No one wants that!

 

Also, please don't tell me Ford owes nothing to the consumer and that the dealerships are their customers. I understand that remark in terms of a business sense but many customers are Ford stock holders and at the end of the day they are also the end consumer.

[Deanh]

19 minutes ago, Dirty Bronco said:

My biggest gripe with this whole launch is the lack of communication from Ford. From the moment they released the video footage back in July 2020 the communication has been bad. The Bronco Nation is suppose to be a conduit from Ford to the consumer. However, many generic questions on that forum fall on deaf ears. Simple questions like tire/wheel specifications were kept in the dark for months post release. Now Ford is cracking down hard on the employee who was taking photos of the preproduction units. I understand completely that you should never take photos that could show potential OSHA hazards or unreleased specifications. However, all the information was made public yet Ford did not have a steady stream of communication to the public. The Bronco Nation had a Q/A session early on and stated that they'd be doing those regularly. That never materialized. I went to two Dealer Demo events and was floored at how uniformed their reps were. I don't blame the reps, I blame Ford for not training them up or having an enthusiast there to answer any and all questions. This is an enthusiast driven vehicle, get the enthusiasts on the forums answering what they can. Ford Motor Company has a generic account on B6G who has been copy and pasting the same generic message over and over stating "We are listening". It's basically the equivalent of calling a support line and getting an automated answering system. No one wants that!

 

Also, please don't tell me Ford owes nothing to the consumer and that the dealerships are their customers. I understand that remark in terms of a business sense but many customers are Ford stock holders and at the end of the day they are also the end consumer.

I called this...whenever Ford decides to inject itself into ANY part of the sales process, or for that matter...mandate process's rather than just build the product and send it  to the Dealers...you can fully expect a TOTAL cluster f--k ! And it all stems from some idiot that thinks they have a better way and convinces Corporate THIS is the way to go....absolutely asinine...they need to communicate MORE with the people actually on the front line dealing face to face with consumers...not some twat in an office on the 10th floor in Michigan with a man bun, logo'ed Polo Shirt and Vans stuck to his/ her I phone thinking they have a better idea to mandate to Dealers and the individuals who are actually familiar with the process and customers expectations.........

[Deanh]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Got the dreaded email...of course on a Friday the 13th LOL

coincidental timing???????

[PREMiERdrum]

I bet the new Blazer had a flawless launch... ??

[Deanh]

23 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

I bet the new Blazer had a flawless launch... ??

lol....that said...was the Blazer this hyped up?.....live by the sword, die by the sword....IMO they should have delayed this launch all up at LEAST another year...hell, they were even rushing the promotion of accessories! Its like I used to work around the house, Id start one job, then another , then another , before I knew it I had a multitude of unfinished work that took forever...better to finish ONE job PROPERLY before undertaking another.....they got ahead of themselves here and now they are suffering the consequences

Edited August 13, 2021 by Deanh

[akirby]

49 minutes ago, Dirty Bronco said:

Also, please don't tell me Ford owes nothing to the consumer and that the dealerships are their customers. I understand that remark in terms of a business sense but many customers are Ford stock holders and at the end of the day they are also the end consumer.

I don’t think that’s applicable in this case because Ford sold these directly to consumers via reservations and has been communicating directly with buyers since the reservations including the forum you mentioned.   I think Ford had great intentions but not the right processes or staffing to do it right,

 

I do understand the desire to wait until you can provide solid answers and not just say hey we have a problem and we’re working on it.  But in this case I don’t think that was the right move.So eti es you have to put customers ahead of PR.

[akirby]

24 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

I bet the new Blazer had a flawless launch... ??

I hear it’s really easy to get the roof off but damn near impossible to get it back on.

[Dirty Bronco]

21 minutes ago, akirby said:

I don’t think that’s applicable in this case because Ford sold these directly to consumers via reservations and has been communicating directly with buyers since the reservations including the forum you mentioned.   I think Ford had great intentions but not the right processes or staffing to do it right,

 

I do understand the desire to wait until you can provide solid answers and not just say hey we have a problem and we’re working on it.  But in this case I don’t think that was the right move.So eti es you have to put customers ahead of PR.

 

Knowing what to do and actually doing it are two different things. I think Ford had the right intent but didn't have the right people in place. Like I said... get some enthusiasts on the forums/social media that can be a conduit between the consumer and Ford. Ross has been doing the job for free.

[rmc523]

8 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Disagree. After what happened with Explorer, they don't deserve any "credit" for royally f***ing up what is arguably their biggest product launch in years. This is killing all the good will the inherent goodness of the product created. Even moreso they don't deserve credit after all the bravado in the run up to introduction in which we were all assured that "we got this". 

 

It was Ford's decision to go with a product launch that not "anything close to a launch of a new vehicle". They could have chosen to go slow(er) and get it right, but in their hubris and clusterf**k egos, they chose this path, and are amply demonstrating their incompetence for the world to see. Too bad there's not a Joe Hinrichs around to assign blame to when you need him, huh? Oh, and rperez, about Hackett's wonderful streamlining of the organization and what wonders it's wrought, please enlighten us on how that's working out in the case of Bronco. 

 

At the end of the day, Bronco is a permutation of a truck, which is supposed to be in the heart of Ford's wheelhouse. Sorry, but no excuses allowed or accepted. That this has occurred should be cause for heads to roll and asses to get kicked. 

 

I'm not excusing anything, but aside from parts limitations that are affecting all industries and vehicle production, it sounds like everything but the roof has gone pretty smoothly as far as launching and production goes.  Obviously the roof gives all that a black eye, but they deserve credit for that part of it.

 

6 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Keeping in mind that I'm one of the people affected by this-

 

The biggest issue with this launch a COSMETIC issue with the hard tops. Not to say it couldn't turn into a major issue (i.e. water leaks, etc) down the road, but ultimately it is "just" an appearance issue.

 

That isn't to say there isn't someone at fault here...the whole roof issue has been cursed since its inception:

Webasto screwing up permits to built the plant back in 2019

The biggest thing that stick out to my head is what happened back in March 2020-The plant wasn't even up and running at that point and that was right before COVID. The Bronco was on track to be launched in December of that year. Even if COVID didn't hit, How did they expect to put out flawless tops 9 months later? I'm not sure exactly when the plant actually came up and running, but it appears that Ford had its own employees working there back in the Spring six month or less ago. I know if I was running this program (without a frame of reference of how manufacturing works-maybe six months is considered enough time), I'd be telling my management that the schedule is at risk of slipping. Heck I'm working on a program that needs two PCs ordered and I'm already telling my management we are in danger of missing our end of January 2022 cutoff date because of everything going on-to ensure that the PCs get ordered and to us before that-Federal End of Year is coming up, COVID travel restrictions, the holidays, etc is all making that possible.  

 

 

 

Reality is, they probably should've just delayed the launch and gotten the top situation sorted out prior to launch, or had a "soft" launch (pun intended) with soft tops only at launch as they sorted out the top situation.  Obviously neither situation would've been ideal, and I'd imagine in hindsight they might've delayed it, but it would've allowed them to get it sorted out and have a smoother, but delayed launch.

 

The fact that preproduction tops weren't having issues certainly doesn't help.  But as we now know, those were produced elsewhere/not at the new plant set to produce all tops.  As I told PD privately a few weeks ago when we got to meet in person, I wonder if they cut corners/stretched "safe zone" parameters to try to push out tops faster.  I guess we're finding out now there were more issues than that, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were doing that in addition to design issues.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

I'm not excusing anything, but aside from parts limitations that are affecting all industries and vehicle production, it sounds like everything but the roof has gone pretty smoothly as far as launching and production goes.  Obviously the roof gives all that a black eye, but they deserve credit for that part of it.

MAP has the best launch team in the company. I've said it for years and I stand by it. 

[akirby]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

had a "soft" launch (pun intended) with soft tops only at launch as they sorted out the top situation. 

I think this would have been the best solution (in hindsight of course).

Edited August 13, 2021 by akirby

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

MAP has the best launch team in the company. I've said it for years and I stand by it. 

 

It's a shame that the top situation has covered that fact here.  Ranger was pretty flawless as far as I remember - obviously there was some global knowledge there of an existing model ROW, but there were significant changes done under the skin.

 

58 minutes ago, akirby said:

I think this would have been the best solution (in hindsight of course).

 

Yup, good old hindsight is 20/20.  All they can do is move forward with what they feel is best to do.

[rperez817]

12 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

Oh, and rperez, about Hackett's wonderful streamlining of the organization and what wonders it's wrought, please enlighten us on how that's working out in the case of Bronco. 

 

I'll readily concede that in the case of Bronco, it isn't working. ☹️

[fuzzymoomoo]

9 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

That's what I was saying - that whatever process was used seems to have worked for low volume preproduction, but clearly that process (I can't imagine they'd use different processes in one facility in Germany vs. the one in Michigan) seemingly didn't do well when increasing production to mass quantities.

It's probably a case of speed. When you're building low volumes for preproduction you don't need to run things at full speed. It was when things started getting dialed up to full speed we started hearing about the issues. 

[rmc523]

8 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

It's probably a case of speed. When you're building low volumes for preproduction you don't need to run things at full speed. It was when things started getting dialed up to full speed we started hearing about the issues. 

 

Yup, that was my thought too.

[02MustangGT]

9 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

It's what PD's sources have pointed out.

 

That's what I was saying - that whatever process was used seems to have worked for low volume preproduction, but clearly that process (I can't imagine they'd use different processes in one facility in Germany vs. the one in Michigan) seemingly didn't do well when increasing production to mass quantities.

Gotcha.  Could it be a difference in material or maybe cutting corners (so to speak) to save a buck for production?  Nothing wrong with that necessarily, just wish it resulted in a quality top.  

[fuzzymoomoo]

7 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

Could it be a difference in material or maybe cutting corners (so to speak) to save a buck for production?

My opinion is it ended up being to aggressive of a production ramp up. 

[Anthony]

5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

MAP has the best launch team in the company. I've said it for years and I stand by it. 

 

I've had a few MAP products and they have all been flawless in build (not necessarily architectural) quality.  MAP will always be may #1!

 

It has been said that new tooling was being produced for the top?  If there was not an inherent design flaw, why is new tooling needed?  Unless the tooling at Webasto was defective in the first place which is causing these issues...if not, what is the difference in the new vs the old tooling which in turn begs the questions, what is different in the new tops?

[akirby]

7 minutes ago, Anthony said:

 

I've had a few MAP products and they have all been flawless in build (not necessarily architectural) quality.  MAP will always be may #1!

 

It has been said that new tooling was being produced for the top?  If there was not an inherent design flaw, why is new tooling needed?  Unless the tooling at Webasto was defective in the first place which is causing these issues...if not, what is the difference in the new vs the old tooling which in turn begs the questions, what is different in the new tops?

They changed the design so it’s easier to manufacture thus the new tooling.  

Edited August 14, 2021 by akirby

[Anthony]

12 minutes ago, akirby said:

They changed the design so it’s easier to manufacture thus the new tooling.  

 

Thanks @akirby. So the questions is, what changed in the design that makes the top pieces easier to manufacture? 

[akirby]

I apologize for trying to have a rational logical discussion with irrational people.

 

I hid some posts.  No more discussion on who is responsible for the tops.

[02MustangGT]

17 minutes ago, akirby said:

I apologize for trying to have a rational logical discussion with irrational people.

 

I hid some posts.  No more discussion on who is responsible for the tops.

Lol, of course you did.  You have a problem with anyone who doesn’t agree with your opinion.  We all know who is responsible for tops on the Ford Bronco anyway.  Good work!

[02MustangGT]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

They changed the design so it’s easier to manufacture thus the new tooling.  

Source?  Who said the new tops are “easier” to manufacture?

[rmc523]

41 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

Source?  Who said the new tops are “easier” to manufacture?

 

Are you just arguing to argue at this point?  As if they're going to make them harder to produce?

 

Clearly there were manufacturing issues with the tops.  Clearly something needed to be done to make them easier to produce consistently.  And that's what they're doing.

 

1 hour ago, Anthony said:

 

Thanks @akirby. So the questions is, what changed in the design that makes the top pieces easier to manufacture? 

 

From what PD posted at 6g....

 

The design will look very much the same (and be the same color, to those of you asking). Main points to address in the update:

- Rolled /finished edges where there were formerly raw cuts.
- Thicker, more uniform outer layer of material.
- Improved injection process to fix forming issues in the clamshell.
 

[02MustangGT]

24 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Are you just arguing to argue at this point?  As if they're going to make them harder to produce?
 

I’m asking for a source since that’s the default response when a forum member has an opinion that doesn’t meet the narrative or opinion of a certain moderator.   The fact of the matter is, the current defective top was likely quite simple to produce, especially since there was no concern from a quality control perspective.  I’m  certain the new top will require more funds and resources (people) which will result in a top that is not “easier” to produce.  The new top should be perfect from a functional and aesthetic standpoint.  Customers with Broncos sitting in a holding lot for 4-5 months should be satisfied with the quality of the new top.