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Bronco and Bronco Sport World Premier July 13th!!


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Heep owners may go bronc...soon as they receive estimate on cost to mod they will be looking to trade....bronc will win drivability..no question....but the broc will be far weaker where it counts and far more expensive to mod...many lifted ifs rigs are never plated again and for good reason....

 

 

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2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Troller T4 is not related to T6, its just a parts bin share from T6 Ranger

(theengine, gearbox, door mechanisms and HVAC componentry.)

the chassis and caxles are all troller design

 

Your assumptions regarding Bronco on T6 are pants on backwards, there's only a only a small demographic that wants

a showroom Bronco to be an extreme off road vehicle. To the extent, that SFA and decoupling anti-roll bars are are just

not on this product envelope. It will have a much better balance of on road performance and that a crappy old SFA will

never ever match. Jeeps ruggedness is its own short coming, some would say, a liability when compared to Bronco,

the Gladiator Mojave is an example of just how shit scared Jeep is of Bronco, they're manoeuvring now as best they

can but it won't be enough...I'm predicting lots of Wrangler defectors will go to Bronco along with other new buyers,

its just a different mix of skills that better suits the bulk of new buyers who want an all road capable vehicle.

Well said, thank you. ? One gets so tired of the same detractors going round and round in circles.

 

On a different note, how certain are we that the first big Daddy prototypes were built last April?

 

It's probably accurate, but when I looked at some stuff regarding Ford, they could be really cutting some stuff really close nowadays in terms of lead, compared to days of yore.

 

I've seen internal docs that show, models are now locked in 14 months before MP1! Then VP1 or something follows after something else called FINAL DATA JUDGEMENT.  Pray that's not true or it explains how overwhelming CD6 rollout was, with little time to spare. I thought they spent 2 years to be on the safe side following lock in?

 

Timing for spy shots for 2021 F-150, 21.5 Bronco, '21 Baby Bronco, 2020 Explorer, is lining up with a chart I have. They all appear in final form roughly 1 year before assembly startup. I think that's a risk, but what do I know? I'm probably wrong. Feels like why no Bronco shots existed, because they just weren't ready,

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46 minutes ago, snooter said:

Heep owners may go bronc...soon as they receive estimate on cost to mod they will be looking to trade....bronc will win drivability..no question....but the broc will be far weaker where it counts and far more expensive to mod...many lifted ifs rigs are never plated again and for good reason....

 

The hard core owners that do more  extreme off-roading will probably stay with Wrangler but

the rest will probably prefer Bronco's broader skill set, people can and do like different things.

 

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25 minutes ago, JX1 said:

Well said, thank you. ? One gets so tired of the same detractors going round and round in circles.

 

On a different note, how certain are we that the first big Daddy prototypes were built last April?

 

It's probably accurate, but when I looked at some stuff regarding Ford, they could be really cutting some stuff really close nowadays in terms of lead, compared to days of yore.

 

I've seen internal docs that show, models are now locked in 14 months before MP1! Then VP1 or something follows after something else called FINAL DATA JUDGEMENT.  Pray that's not true or it explains how overwhelming CD6 rollout was, with little time to spare. I thought they spent 2 years to be on the safe side following lock in?

 

Timing for spy shots for 2021 F-150, 21.5 Bronco, '21 Baby Bronco, 2020 Explorer, is lining up with a chart I have. They all appear in final form roughly 1 year before assembly startup. I think that's a risk, but what do I know? I'm probably wrong. Feels like why no Bronco shots existed, because they just weren't ready,

They were being deliberately kept out of site after Ranger leak years in front of release.

Tooling prove-out  was done last March with first prototypes last April.

 

A lot of the testing was being done with attribute prototypes, chopped up Rangers

Final certification work would now be underway up until job 1 in December.

Edited by jpd80
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6 hours ago, Stampede.Offroad said:

 

I doubt there's anything wrong with the chassis.  What is different is the length.  The Ranger, like fast off roaders, is long -- and when a racer is going to modify it, they're going to make it even longer. 

 

Long + speed = stable. 

 

Funny cars get stretched, and so do desert racers.  

 

Stability is not the issue with low speed technical trails.  It is maneuverability, articulation, and maintaining traction.  Shorter wheelbases and narrower bodies work better there.  But Ford is still pushing 'fast' off roading with the Bronco marketing which makes no sense for a vehicle that is purposely short. So I'll repeat it ... The Bronco's basic geometry and physics make it an inherently poor choice for high speed.


Rod Hall won the Baja 1000 in the original Bronco...

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59 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

They were being deliberately kept out of site after Ranger leak years in front of release.

Tooling prove-out  was done last March with first prototypes last April.

 

A lot of the testing was being done with attribute prototypes, chopped up Rangers

Final certification work would now be underway up until job 1 in December.

Oh, why thank you for politely explaining that. Nothing to worry about in this case, as everything will go smoothly and hopefully turn around company performance. I just know it will, as will the Sport. People bash the Sport, but they just don't know yet.

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2 hours ago, JX1 said:

I've seen internal docs that show, models are now locked in 14 months before MP1! Then VP1 or something follows after something else called FINAL DATA JUDGEMENT.  Pray that's not true or it explains how overwhelming CD6 rollout was, with little time to spare. I thought they spent 2 years to be on the safe side following lock in?


VP1 Builds tentatively start in July. Those will be the first ones built at MAP. 14 months from first prototypes to MP1 is actually about normal. 
 

I firmly believe there will not be the same issues that CAP had with the Explorer/Aviator launch. We have the best launch team in the whole company at MAP, and judging by the pace of the new equipment being installed they’re really taking their time with it. 

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At least around here in the Northeast most people don’t buy a new Jeep to put a lift kit on it to drive it on the rocks.  The lifted jeeps around here are usually older models from the used markets that have been modified.  Furthermore they tend to be a weekend car because no one wants to put up with the noise and ride quality  as a daily driver.  Most people I know who buy wranglers do so for the image but soon tire of the noise and rough ride.  Last I looked Ford makes no money, other than repair parts,  on used car sales.  If you want that rock crawler, buy an old Jeep or Bronco and modify it to your hearts content.  Like the manual transmission  and SRA in cars, the SFA is going away. The industry is responding to what most people want, not what the few enthusiast want.  

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27 minutes ago, akirby said:

We all know that the folks clamoring for SFA and hard core off roading would be buying cheap used vehicles anyway.  Just like the Panther mafia. 
 

Guess we’ll have the SFA mafia now.

 

Not really buddy, I have probably spent more on new F-350 Lariats in the past 7 years than you’ve spent on vehicles in your lifetime...

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23 minutes ago, akirby said:

We all know that the folks clamoring for SFA and hard core off roading would be buying cheap used vehicles anyway.  Just like the Panther mafia. 
 

Guess we’ll have the SFA mafia now.

 

Because no auto reviewers or YouTubers or whatever buys a brand new vehicle and off roads it, creating thousands of aspirational owners from their viewers. 

 

Nice plan ...

 

I hope you guys aren't in charge of marketing at Ford ... ?

 

One of the biggest reasons Wranglers, Tacomas, 4Runners etc. have high resale value is because of those second or third owners you are deriding and mocking.  The Bronco you seem so pleased to describe won't have those people, or the resale value.

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1 hour ago, pictor said:

At least around here in the Northeast most people don’t buy a new Jeep to put a lift kit on it to drive it on the rocks.  The lifted jeeps around here are usually older models from the used markets that have been modified.  Furthermore they tend to be a weekend car because no one wants to put up with the noise and ride quality  as a daily driver.  Most people I know who buy wranglers do so for the image but soon tire of the noise and rough ride.  Last I looked Ford makes no money, other than repair parts,  on used car sales.  If you want that rock crawler, buy an old Jeep or Bronco and modify it to your hearts content.  Like the manual transmission  and SRA in cars, the SFA is going away. The industry is responding to what most people want, not what the few enthusiast want.  

 

Someone might want to let Ford know so they can discontinue the SFA in the Super Duty that crushes GM HD’s in sales in large part due to the SFA that supposedly no one wants???

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46 minutes ago, Steve557 said:

 

Not really buddy, I have probably spent more on new F-350 Lariats in the past 7 years than you’ve spent on vehicles in your lifetime...

You rock crawl F-350s? Because that's the only advantage for a front  stick axle on a Bronco.

 

Stop bringing up Super Duties, we're talking about the Bronco. Might as well be comparing skid loaders to excavators.

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1 minute ago, MY93SHO said:

You rock crawl F-350s? Because that's the only advantage for a front  stick axle on a Bronco.

 

Stop bringing up Super Duties, we're talking about the Bronco. Might as well be comparing skid loaders to excavators.

 

Because a body on frame truck with a bed is so different than a body on frame truck with a wagon top?

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4 minutes ago, Stampede.Offroad said:

 

Because a body on frame truck with a bed is so different than a body on frame truck with a wagon top?

 

I'll say it again so maybe it will sink in:  Who rock crawls F350?  If you want to use stupid comparisons you might as well use an F650.

 

An F350 isn't a Bronco, neither is and F650. Stop comparing apples to beach balls.

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Just now, MY93SHO said:

 

I'll say it again so maybe it will sink in:  Who rock crawls F350?  If you want to use stupid comparisons you might as well use an F650.

 

Apparently the people buying Tremor package F350s.

 

Ford thought the combination of SFA off-roader was worth building for the superduty, how is it so hard to imagine a smaller more maneuverable vehicle like a Wrangler or Bronco would benefit from the same combination?

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These guys aren't wrong.. solid axle is hands down better on technical/low speed trails for the guys that use them like that ..

That said, I don't think it'll have any affect on sales and for 95% of buyers the IFS is going to be better overall. The hardcore guys wouldn't be using a front d30 or d44 it'd come with, they'll be going to one tons with aftermarket long arms/coilovers/beef components that wouldn't come factory anyway. As someone with a heavily modified 78 fullsize (one tons/40s/etc) I'm a little disappointed the new one isn't coming with a SFA.. but in all reality if I got my hands on it I wouldn't be using the factory junk ifs or sfa. So you have to cut a little more engine cross member off and weld on some link brackets, have to do that anyway if you want it to be "hardcore"

 

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26 minutes ago, MY93SHO said:

You rock crawl F-350s? Because that's the only advantage for a front  stick axle on a Bronco.

 

Stop bringing up Super Duties, we're talking about the Bronco. Might as well be comparing skid loaders to excavators.

 

SD’s are a great example... GM builds an IFS HD that no one buys while Ford sells a whole lot of SFA SD’s.

Just look at 1/2 ton sales number which market share percentage wise GM is a whole lot closer to Ford but get’s crushed in HD’s because of IFS.

We are not talking about radically different vehicles... plenty of people buy SD’s as nothing more than daily drivers and prefer the SFA.

 

 

 

The only advantage of a Solid Axle is rock crawling??? ?Perhaps you should do a little more research....

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26 minutes ago, Stampede.Offroad said:

 

Apparently the people buying Tremor package F350s.

 

Ford thought the combination of SFA off-roader was worth building for the superduty, how is it so hard to imagine a smaller more maneuverable vehicle like a Wrangler or Bronco would benefit from the same combination?

Yeah, you'll see hundreds on the Rubicon.

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1 minute ago, MY93SHO said:

Yeah, you'll see hundreds on the Rubicon.

 

That's the nature of an aspirational purchase.  People aren't buying Mustangs because they're going to be street racers risking their lives like James Dean or w/e. 

 

It is about how it makes them feel and the potential of what could be done with it.  The Bronco having (or not) off road capability comparable to a Wrangler is about how it makes them feel, the adventure they can enjoy in their imagination.  Same for the F350 Tremor.  Potential and aspiration.

 

If everyone knows the potential isn't there -- if the reviewers and YouTubers aren't using it -- then the buyers who want to imagine a life they aren't really going to have aren't going to be buying Broncos in order to dip their toe in that fantasy.

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24 minutes ago, Steve557 said:

 

SD’s are a great example... GM builds an IFS HD that no one buys while Ford sells a whole lot of SFA SD’s.

Just look at 1/2 ton sales number which market share percentage wise GM is a whole lot closer to Ford but get’s crushed in HD’s because of IFS.

We are not talking about radically different vehicles... plenty of people buy SD’s as nothing more than daily drivers and prefer the SFA.

 

 

 

The only advantage of a Solid Axle is rock crawling??? ?Perhaps you should do a little more research....

How many solid axle desert runners do you see in the same class as the Bronco? Besides the Mojave, that's just a repackage.

 

You hate the Bronco, don't buy it. Go buy a Discovery. Oh wait that's IFS front and rear!

 

 

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2 minutes ago, MY93SHO said:

How many solid axle desert runners do you see in the same class as the Bronco? Besides the Mojave, that's just a repackage.

...

 

 

 

How many professional racing teams would even bother to consider a "desert runner" with a wheelbase as short as a Bronco?

 

Apparently, not even Ford Performance would because the Bronco R prototype was stretched.

 

That's the point I've been making from the start ... The Bronco's basic geometry and physics make it an inherently poor choice for high speed like the Raptor lineup ... Bronco is better suited to slow technical off roading, and that style of use is better served by SFA.

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7 minutes ago, Stampede.Offroad said:

 

 

Apparently, not even Ford Performance would because the Bronco R prototype was stretched.

 

 

 

I wouldn't take anything away from the Bronco are indicating anything solid of what the upcoming Bronco is going to be or not size-wise. In the grand scheme of things it could have been the 4 door length as a 2 door model...

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