jasonj80 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 2 hours ago, rperez817 said: Thank you for sharing a dealership perspective ice-capades sir. Dealer relations is one area where Ford has a lot of room for improvement. In last summer's NADA Dealer Attitude Survey, these were the brands that scored highest. 1. Lexus 2. Toyota 3. Honda 4. Subaru 5. Porsche 6. Mercedes-Benz 7. Kia 8. Volvo 9. Hyundai 10. BMW In this survey, franchised dealers rate their relationships with their automaker partners in areas like ability to make money, listening to dealers, and honoring promises made. https://www.autonews.com/dealers/dealers-still-lexus-toyota-most-survey-finds Ford is also stuck with many dealerships with s*** locations with the franchisee won't/can't move, refuse to update their showroom; do the bare minimum to keep open and won't close/want a ridiculous amount to be purchased. You walk into a Ford showroom stuck in the late 70' and walk into a Hyundai dealership built in the last 5 years its not rocket science as to where you feel more comfortable buying a car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 hour ago, bzcat said: That's a straw man argument. Ford wouldn't be opening a new factory to just build 100k Escape. They'd be adding 100k Escape to a plant that is making 200k other vehicles. And we know Ford had plenty of spare capacity because it turned out Cuatitian, Flat Rock, Hermosillo, Michigan, and Oakville were all capable of producing more vehicles without a lot of new overhead. It's one of the reason why the 3rd Mexican plant was cancelled. And if you look at what actually happened, the compact CUV segment grew a lot over the last 5 years or so. This is one of those times where you need to have the capacity... more Escape would have sold without huge amount of incentives. People were trading in cars for CUVs and Ford didn't have enough CUVs to sell. The next best thing to do was to raise prices... but in order to do that, you need to have fresh product, which Ford... didn't have. So basically, Ford had the worst of both worlds... not enough volume to compete in a growing market and can't sustain higher prices given the volume constrain. I do agree with you that the new plan for Hermosillo makes sense - building Bronco Sport and Transit Connect there with potential for Escape overflow is smart planning. Something unfortunately Ford didn't do very well during the last cycle. But Cuatitlan and Oakville still have a lot of capacity there not being used. Oh I agree they screwed up long term planning by not having flexible capacity. FRAP can’t build utilities and Hermosillo was at max capacity. I’m just saying that at a given point in time it may not be financially viable to expand production and limiting it to one plant with higher ATPs might make sense short term. It’s a balancing act - less capacity means less overhead and easier to withstand a downturn. But it also makes it harder or impossible to take advantage of market opportunities. I think we agree Ford is too conservative and needs more flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, akirby said: But you still have Bronco Sport and whatever special versions either way. What you’re proposing is they throw away Escapes 15k units per month (with good profit margins) just because you don’t like the styling. I don’t understand the logic. I mean I can’t stand Camry styling but they sell almost 400k/Yr. Everybody’s tastes are different. What I’m saying is I believe ford would make more money by doing a one vehicle strategy. i don’t think the bronco sport will outsell the escape now because the escape has a lower price and will have more rebates, however, if the bronco sport was offered in 2WD and cost the same as the escape, i am positive it would outsell it by a good margin. I think the money ford spent on making two vehicles could have been spent on making one vehicle better. Ford should have adopted the model they have been using on the f150 (which Toyota now started doing with its rav4), which is giving each trim a different front end, lights, interior materials, etc. this would have allowed them to differentiate the vehicle to cover several demographics while saving a ton of money by not having 2 separate vehicles. They could then use those savings to put better materials inside their vehicles, which would in turn make people think it’s a quality product, which then allows ford to charge more because they have added value. This is opposed to their current strategy which is charge more but make everything cheaper. That’s being short sighted and will hurt them in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 There is no value in ford entry product offerings for what you pay(cliff note version)....escape is the new focus entry point at substantial higher cost...the cons of atp are now fully exposed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 7 hours ago, T-dubz said: What I’m saying is I believe ford would make more money by doing a one vehicle strategy. i don’t think the bronco sport will outsell the escape now because the escape has a lower price and will have more rebates, however, if the bronco sport was offered in 2WD and cost the same as the escape, i am positive it would outsell it by a good margin. I think the money ford spent on making two vehicles could have been spent on making one vehicle better. Ford should have adopted the model they have been using on the f150 (which Toyota now started doing with its rav4), which is giving each trim a different front end, lights, interior materials, etc. this would have allowed them to differentiate the vehicle to cover several demographics while saving a ton of money by not having 2 separate vehicles. They could then use those savings to put better materials inside their vehicles, which would in turn make people think it’s a quality product, which then allows ford to charge more because they have added value. This is opposed to their current strategy which is charge more but make everything cheaper. That’s being short sighted and will hurt them in the long run. I think the jury is out on that. I think you will see that other car companies will be adding similar size but more rugged (or less rugged) compact CUVs as they go about their replacement cycles. Cars leave the line up and CUV replace them, on top of existing CUVs. You mentioned Toyota RAV4 which is beating Escape right now but Toyota is also planning to add a new model next year. It's rumored to bring back the Matrix nameplate on a CUV that is roughly the same size as RAV4, maybe a little smaller. And there will be a new Venza as well to complement the new Highlander. So everyone is doing the multiple CUV entry thing because the market is growing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 8, 2020 Author Share Posted April 8, 2020 14 hours ago, jasonj80 said: The biggest disappointment in the Bronco Sport is that the hybrid isn't a powertrain option, that is the best powertrian in the Escape. I wouldn't be suprised to see it popup in a year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Wasn't there a slide somewhere that said ford planned to eventually have like 10-20 hybrid and electric vehicles? They almost have to put it in the Bronco to make those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 40 minutes ago, probowler said: Wasn't there a slide somewhere that said ford planned to eventually have like 10-20 hybrid and electric vehicles? They almost have to put it in the Bronco to make those numbers. I don't remember the exact number but yeah it was something like that. I thought the plan was pretty much everything gets a hybrid version except for things like Super Duty, Heavy Trucks and HD Transit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I don't remember the exact number but yeah it was something like that. I thought the plan was pretty much everything gets a hybrid version except for things like Super Duty, Heavy Trucks and HD Transit. I think the exact wording was hybrids for everything except commercial vehicles which would include what you listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 11 minutes ago, akirby said: I think the exact wording was hybrids for everything except commercial vehicles which would include what you listed. Also E-Series and stripped chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Bronco Sport production delayed til September https://www.bronco6g.com/bronco-sport-production-delayed-to-a-september-start/ So that means about a 60-90 day delay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: Bronco Sport production delayed til September https://www.bronco6g.com/bronco-sport-production-delayed-to-a-september-start/ So that means about a 60-90 day delay? I thought it was always a fall start. What was the original job 1 date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, akirby said: I thought it was always a fall start. What was the original job 1 date? Sometime mid-late summer. Never saw an actual date. Edit: It was July 13, it's in the article Edited April 11, 2020 by fuzzymoomoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 hour ago, akirby said: I thought it was always a fall start. What was the original job 1 date? According to Automotive News, July 13th. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 It was supposed to start hitting dealerships in October, since that was leaked on the Accessories sheet for the Bronco, just specifically didn’t state which one at the time it was released months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 On 4/8/2020 at 10:20 PM, probowler said: Wasn't there a slide somewhere that said ford planned to eventually have like 10-20 hybrid and electric vehicles? They almost have to put it in the Bronco to make those numbers. Ford counts trim levels of the same vehicle as as different electric and hybrid vehicles, they've pulled this trick before.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Everything that was going to launch through the end of 2021 is delayed 60-120 days. Programs under development are also undergoing extensive review, and may lead to more cancellations and reshuffling of plant resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 10 hours ago, jpd80 said: Ford counts trim levels of the same vehicle as as different electric and hybrid vehicles, they've pulled this trick before.... They also include 48V systems hybrids. Which while technically a hybrid don't have huge real world efficiency gains, and are more about CO2 reduction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Seems as Sept 7th is JOB1 date... Autoblog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 44 minutes ago, jasonj80 said: Everything that was going to launch through the end of 2021 is delayed 60-120 days. Programs under development are also undergoing extensive review, and may lead to more cancellations and reshuffling of plant resources. My guesstimates: Mustang Mach E-least affected because pre-production units where being built already? Bronco Sport-60 days F-150-60 days or less due to importance Bronco-90-120 days worse case-Maybe only 60 Rivian based Lincoln (that was supposed to come out the end of next year?) 120 days Under review: Small Pickup Fusion Sportback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 hours ago, jasonj80 said: Everything that was going to launch through the end of 2021 is delayed 60-120 days. Programs under development are also undergoing extensive review, and may lead to more cancellations and reshuffling of plant resources. I'm surprised they haven't pulled the plug (temporarily) on the Michigan Central Station reconstruction project. The Dearborn Campus re-do too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Bronco R: A sign of the future or a simple tribute to the 2019 Baja Bronco? They have R merch on fords website now. https://merchandise.ford.com/Product/1515963-Bronco_R_Full-Zip_Hoodie The Bronco turntables are kind of cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, mackinaw said: I'm surprised they haven't pulled the plug (temporarily) on the Michigan Central Station reconstruction project. The Dearborn Campus re-do too. That is being paid for by grants, TIF captures, and is through Ford land however there is a slow down at MCS based on the shut down of construction in the state. Dearborn campus redo is just necessary, to say they were in horrid shape would be kind but also work has stopped as they are not legally allowed to work. Edited April 13, 2020 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: My guesstimates: Mustang Mach E-least affected because pre-production units where being built already? Bronco Sport-60 days F-150-60 days or less due to importance Bronco-90-120 days worse case-Maybe only 60 Rivian based Lincoln (that was supposed to come out the end of next year?) 120 days Under review: Small Pickup Fusion Sportback As for the Rivian-based Lincoln product, Rivian has pushed back production of their pickup and SUV from late in 2020 to sometime in 2021. I imagine this will push back the Lincoln BEV too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelyD Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ford-bronco-sport-production-delayed-coronavirus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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