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Ford Said to be Shifting Plans for Flat Rock (again...)

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14 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

It's Bloomberg, they generally vet their sources pretty well. 

We lost an all electric SUV for the second time in 2 years. We also lost the autonomous vehicle production recently. The Continental goes away in 21, we need more products! Ford says they are actively looking for a new product to give us.

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8 hours ago, deflep1 said:

We lost an all electric SUV for the second time in 2 years. We also lost the autonomous vehicle production recently. The Continental goes away in 21, we need more products! Ford says they are actively looking for a new product to give us.

You wonder the thought process of those making these decisions to put a product in one month just to pull it out a few months later.  Perhaps Ford is looking for a higher volume vehicle to put at FRAP instead of the electric SUVs.

 

Some interesting tidbits I found on the contract summary.  $250 million going to FRAP for next Mustang and "derivatives."  Of course this could mean the convertible, and hybrid, but could it also mean a Mustang crossover or sedan that was rumored?  MAP and WSP are adding stampings for the next -gen Mustang.  

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7 hours ago, Footballfan said:

Some interesting tidbits I found on the contract summary.  $250 million going to FRAP for next Mustang and "derivatives."  Of course this could mean the convertible, and hybrid, but could it also mean a Mustang crossover or sedan that was rumored?  MAP and WSP are adding stampings for the next -gen Mustang.  

 

When you look at that investment compared with other plants, it's really not all that much. 

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FRAP has a good reputation and also the trades have only 2 classifications,mechanical and electrical.Its in the contract that FRAP stays open so there must be some plans.I am gonna guess EV`s.So long as Ford keeps the plant open,heck they could turn the place into a giant Farmer`s Market/Flea Market kinda place.Just keep showing up till they run out of $$$$$.

Edited by Fatso

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On 11/2/2019 at 4:37 PM, deflep1 said:

We lost an all electric SUV for the second time in 2 years. We also lost the autonomous vehicle production recently. The Continental goes away in 21, we need more products! Ford says they are actively looking for a new product to give us.

 

They send them to Mexico again?!?! $900 million for OHAP! What in the world are they getting?

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Frap has good reputation? It is by far the lowest skilled assembly plant in the us.  Extremely high downtime.  The highest repair offline in ford. On paper the ie guys love frap work groups.  Real world- plant is mass chaos (production, trades, salary share work) International hates this plants local contract. That's why international and ford plan to the idle the plant in couple years.

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29 minutes ago, fordmichiganman said:

Frap has good reputation? It is by far the lowest skilled assembly plant in the us.  Extremely high downtime.  The highest repair offline in ford. On paper the ie guys love frap work groups.  Real world- plant is mass chaos (production, trades, salary share work) International hates this plants local contract. That's why international and ford plan to the idle the plant in couple years.

Okay,I dont know what the downtime or production numbers are.The trades I have met from FRAP seem as smart as anybody.The Mustang is a successful product as well as a company icon.Having a local contract that specifies only 2 trades classifications makes FRAP more efficient {on paper}.After FRAP went down to only 1 shift the company did not release any trades and that is unheard of for an assembly plant.That is why I thought FRAP had a good reputation.Maybe ,after the contract passes,the company is going to impose a moratorium on the plant and they will get no new product and then personnel will start to be transferred.I dont really know.I would guess that the Ford Mustang will be built there indefinitely since that is where the tooling is located and the product sells.

Edited by Fatso

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4 hours ago, fordmichiganman said:

The plan is to finish building current model then build new model mustang elsewhere.  

Idle the building,move the tooling and relocate the current employees?The plant would not actually closed it would just be idled?I will say that I dont know of a Ford Assembly plant that just built one model and stayed open very long.I thought under the new contract that no jobs would be lost?Well Ford will always find a home for you,,,,,,,,at THE ROUGE.

Edited by Fatso

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On 11/2/2019 at 4:37 PM, deflep1 said:

We lost an all electric SUV for the second time in 2 years. We also lost the autonomous vehicle production recently. The Continental goes away in 21, we need more products! Ford says they are actively looking for a new product to give us.

 

It would be interesting to see why they keep teasing FRAP with new investment only to pull it away a few months later. 

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20 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

 

It would be interesting to see why they keep teasing FRAP with new investment only to pull it away a few months later. 

 

Attendance is consistently among the worst in the company, that could be a big part of it. 

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5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

Attendance is consistently among the worst in the company, that could be a big part of it. 

 

Isn't that an issue at most plants-I've heard horror stories from people who transferred from Edison to other plants when they shut down

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CAP has it at a level that is unbelievable.... people don`t come to work, period. For every reason under the sun.....

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4 hours ago, Decker said:

CAP has it at a level that is unbelievable.... people don`t come to work, period. For every reason under the sun.....

 

Yah think it would have been smarter to move the Explorer/Aviator to Flat Rock instead of Chicago, considering the issues there?

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26 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Yah think it would have been smarter to move the Explorer/Aviator to Flat Rock instead of Chicago, considering the issues there?

 

Thats not as simple as you would think. There's a lot inside the building that would need to change to accommodate a taller vehicle. 

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With the joint venture stigma still in the air and with a contract in place that has two trades and all the production classifications reduced FRAP will slowly disappear unless we see our IUAW become reborn into a more member based union. CAP and the other money makers for Ford will continue as they have for so long, because of one thing, orders. We at CAP have seen the concern for quality jump to the head of the line many times but, only when that key ingredient starts to slip, orders.

 

Ford made some really goofy decisions over the years, one that comes to mind is Norfolk... so I have compassion for everyone at FRAP but, I helped benchmark the number one FPS process with the documented highest quality in the system at the time and in Ford`s reality, Norfolk closed.    

 

Work ethic's is a major problem everywhere, all levels and both hourly and salaried. 5 or so years down the road who knows how interesting all this work related shit will play out.

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5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

Thats not as simple as you would think. There's a lot inside the building that would need to change to accommodate a taller vehicle. 

 

You've said that many times, but people who should know better keep bringing up the subject of building SUV's at Flat Rock. 

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FlatRock seems to be the proverbial hot potato at Ford, new leadership keeps tossing it around.  If we head into an economic recession within the next 4 years, Ford's capacity in the US will probably need to shed a plant and this becomes the obvious target primed for the next contract.  But Mustang's increasing exclusivity as their only car makes it expensive to move it so it's hard to say why they prefer to under-utilize the plant other than the likelihood that it's too expensive to make FRAP SUV and EV compatible alongside Mustang.  Ultimately if they operate the plant profitably, it doesn't matter and maybe Mustang is worth the trouble to them.

Edited by Assimilator

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4 hours ago, Assimilator said:

FlatRock seems to be the proverbial hot potato at Ford, new leadership keeps tossing it around.  If we head into an economic recession within the next 4 years, Ford's capacity in the US will probably need to shed a plant and this becomes the obvious target primed for the next contract.  But Mustang's increasing exclusivity as their only car makes it expensive to move it so it's hard to say why they prefer to under-utilize the plant other than the likelihood that it's too expensive to make FRAP SUV and EV compatible alongside Mustang.  Ultimately if they operate the plant profitably, it doesn't matter and maybe Mustang is worth the trouble to them.

This is the second time in a year Ford cancelled a new paint shop at FRAP and pulled future products.  It makes Ford management look somewhat incompetent.  The UAW should have at least negotiated the building of the new paint shop to make FRAP more "viable."  

 

IMHO I think that Ford is going on another cost-cutting spree, and they are trying to fit product to a plant, instead of making the plant flexible enough to handle any product.  Hence, the EV being moved to OHAP since their paint shop can handle taller vehicles. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Footballfan said:

Hence, the EV being moved to OHAP since their paint shop can handle taller vehicles. 

 

If that's really the logic, then Oakville would make more sense since they already build Edge and Nautilus. 

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4 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

If that's really the logic, then Oakville would make more sense since they already build Edge and Nautilus. 

 

I'm going to make a bizarre connection in order to ask a question: elsewhere I've read that GM are considering a battery plant in Ohio. I don't know why for that location - existing building/workforce, raw material availability for battery construction, lower freight costs for shipping the batteries to GM plants, or what else could be in play. Whatever the reason, if it's compelling economically, could that somehow be influencing Ford's (apparent) thinking to move its U.S. EV plant to Ohio?

 

I doubt there's any connection in all of this, just found it interesting that GM are also considering something very EV related for Ohio.

Edited by Harley Lover

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Once the Explorer problems are fixed at FRAP some workers are to be transferred over to Livonia Trans. where they are needed.

Edited by Fatso

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