CurtisH Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: The 6Rs are a ZF 6HP built under license The 6R80 is. I thought the 6R’s used in the Superduties were a Ford design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 hour ago, CurtisH said: The 6R80 is. I thought the 6R’s used in the Superduties were a Ford design. No, they're still a ZF, the 6R140 is a larger design of the 6R80. So you can see that there was a big incentive there for Ford to move to own design and end all those royalties to ZF, splitting the development cost with GM was even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 4 hours ago, jpd80 said: No, they're still a ZF, the 6R140 is a larger design of the 6R80. So you can see that there was a big incentive there for Ford to move to own design and end all those royalties to ZF, splitting the development cost with GM was even better. Not to be argumentative, but are you sure? I thought the 6R140 was based on the 5 speed Torqueshift. I’m pretty sure the 5 speed was a Ford design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 19 minutes ago, CurtisH said: Not to be argumentative, but are you sure? I thought the 6R140 was based on the 5 speed Torqueshift. I’m pretty sure the 5 speed was a Ford design. Designed and built by Ford. https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/12/top-7-features-of-fords-6r140-six-speed-heavy-duty-transmission.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, akirby said: Designed and built by Ford. https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/12/top-7-features-of-fords-6r140-six-speed-heavy-duty-transmission.html Thanks. I thought I remembered something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, CurtisH said: Thanks. I thought I remembered something like that. wow, I stand corrected on that... you're never too old to learn something new. Anyone know the back story on the version developed for the gas Boss? I heard that was a different gearbox with lower first gear ratio. Edited November 11, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) On 11/7/2019 at 2:49 AM, jpd80 said: Ford had the solution in 2015 with the global Focus going to the 1.5 I-4 EB and JV 6F35 auto, that will be the most damning evidence against them, Fields refused to change even though Ford knew the suffering and pain buyers were going through The 6F transmission would have raised the price of that car. That is why the DPS6 was kept around for so long. Again, I worked in Powertrain Engineering during the final stages of development of the DPS6. The transmission was NEVER supposed to go into the Focus. It was aimed at the much lighter Fiesta and they hoped to keep cost similar to the manual. DOJ might be disappointed. Ford has a very strict policy that all documentation be DESTROYED within a limited number of years. Sure drawing are kept, but test results, emails, etc are destroyed. There will not be much to hand over. Edited November 12, 2019 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, theoldwizard said: The 6F transmission would have raised the price of that car. That is why the DPS6 was kept around for so long. Again, I worked in Powertrain Engineering during the final stages of development of the DPS6. The transmission was NEVER supposed to go into the Focus. It was aimed at the much lighter Fiesta and they hoped to keep cost similar to the manual. DOJ might be disappointed. Ford has a very strict policy that all documentation be DESTROYED within a limited number of years. Sure drawing are kept, but test results, emails, etc are destroyed. There will not be much to hand over. Yes, I get the feeling that Focus’ bigger engine and heavier vehicle weight were just too much for this type of ‘box - was that a FOE lead decision or cost targets laid down by Ford nth American? I only ask because you mentioned that DPS6 was never supposed to go in Focus, was it supposed to get the 6F but extra cost, yes? Either way, Ford got its fingers burned again with a design that couldn’t be fixed to the customers satisfaction strange that in 2015 global update Focus went to 1.5 EB and 6MT /6F auto trans - beautiful combination by the way.... I think that there’s still enough embarrassing emails and documents around to maybe force ford to settle this but to say there’s any smoking gun pointing to safety concerns us a stretch. The lawyers will smell blood but in the end, owners will just get a settlement and move on. GM got away with the “ignition lock gate” so everything else is not so hard to resolve. Edited November 12, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 15 hours ago, jpd80 said: I think that there’s still enough embarrassing emails and documents around to maybe force ford to settle this but to say there’s any smoking gun pointing to safety concerns us a stretch. Highly unlikely ! Every employee must electronically "sign" a document saying that they have destroyed their documents. They make it clear, if you do not, you can be fired. Some came out last year/early this year. That person is in serious trouble. Not exactly sure how electronic "backups" are handled, but like there are no backups over 12 months old. There was a class action lawsuit and it was settled, some say not fairly, but it is done. Water under the bridge now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mybkvu Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, theoldwizard said: There was a class action lawsuit and it was settled, some say not fairly, but it is done. Water under the bridge now. That's not accurate. Public Citizen successfully argued and the Court of Appeals sent it back to the lower court for further review. https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2019/09/13/ford-focus-fiesta-transmission-class-action-stalled-dps-6/2312926001/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30 OTT 6 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 On 11/9/2019 at 9:30 PM, silvrsvt said: Since when did the ST get an automatic? When they castrated the brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, 30 OTT 6 said: When they castrated the brand. Focus ST was only offered in Europe and only with the 2.0L Duratorq diesel. And it was not a torque converter automatic it was an automated manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, akirby said: Focus ST was only offered in Europe and only with the 2.0L Duratorq diesel. And it was not a torque converter automatic it was an automated manual. No, that’s ST Line, the new 2020 Focus ST comes with 2.3 Ecoboost and either 6MT or 7AT, the auto is the same as 2.0 EB in Edge/Escape but skips a gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 5 hours ago, theoldwizard said: Highly unlikely ! Every employee must electronically "sign" a document saying that they have destroyed their documents. They make it clear, if you do not, you can be fired. Some came out last year/early this year. That person is in serious trouble. Not exactly sure how electronic "backups" are handled, but like there are no backups over 12 months old. There was a class action lawsuit and it was settled, some say not fairly, but it is done. Water under the bridge now. Then how come we have transcripts of engineer discussing issues and Reservations with his boss? obviously, some knew this would come back on them and took measures to protect themselves. they even know that Fields sought extra money from Getrag to cover increased warranty costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 42 minutes ago, jpd80 said: No, that’s ST Line, the new 2020 Focus ST comes with 2.3 Ecoboost and either 6MT or 7AT, the auto is the same as 2.0 EB in Edge/Escape but skips a gear. Damn wikipedia....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 42 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Then how come we have transcripts of engineer discussing issues and Reservations with his boss? obviously, some knew this would come back on them and took measures to protect themselves. they even know that Fields sought extra money from Getrag to cover increased warranty costs Let's say all that is true - I don't see where any of it is illegal as long as they honored warranty claims and didn't hide a safety defect. Almost every product has some sort of defect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 21 minutes ago, akirby said: Let's say all that is true - I don't see where any of it is illegal as long as they honored warranty claims and didn't hide a safety defect. Almost every product has some sort of defect. Of course, I’m simply answering TOW about all records being destroyed, obviously they weren’t. This is just another fishing exercise where lawyers hope to find something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 17 hours ago, jpd80 said: This is just another fishing exercise where lawyers hope to find something new. My point really is, that the corporate policy will prevent such a fishing expedition ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Just now, theoldwizard said: My point really is, that the corporate policy will prevent such a fishing expedition ! And my point is that they already have emails and and depositions but, they're not going to find anything that suggests the faulty gearbox is dangerous, without that, they’re dead in the water for culpability the problem for Ford is more a drawn out case in public glare. That’s what the lawyers want, the messier and more protracted the better for a settlement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.