Jump to content

BUYOUT...When Do We Leave??


autoworker2

Recommended Posts

Questions Questions.....

 

This may or may not help with one repeated question, "yes" your age will reduce your payable monthly LIB percentage.

 

For a simplified explanation, if a member is calculated to receive $100.00 a month for their LIB and this member is 59 years old. The $100.00 LIB check will be issued for $80.80. The member will only receive a check for $100.00 of the calculated LIB if the member is 62 or older years of age.

 

A member with "85" points and wishes to start receiving LIB payments, the member is 60 years old with 25 years of service which satisfies the 85 point requirement.

 

Being age 60, the member will be reduced to $86.70 for every $100.00 of LIB. If calculated at "my" LIB, 25 years of service will come to $1329.50. With the age reduction this will produce the payable amount to $1152.67. Then there is the bridge benefit of "approximately" $1200.00 a month that will be paid till the member reaches 62 years of age. This will be a total payable monthly benefit of $2352.67. Remember at age 62 the bridge benefit automatically drops. Then if a member applies for S.S. benefits at age 62 or so, the S.S. benefit is reduced because of the age of the member. In most cases the S.S. reduced benefit will not equal the bridge benefit that was dropped. Of course, the $2352.67 is before taxes.

 

For those that were under the impression that any of the rumor`s were true, just do the math and things will look real different from the "I heard" - "they said" accountants. Then one thing for sure the only way a member will receive full calculated LIB is to have "30" years of credited service and be celebrating their "62" birthday.

 

One last thing, "yes" there is a long list of deductions Ford will calculate and... reduce any retirement incentive benefit prior to depositing. With no other deductions then taxes, a $60.000.00 retirement incentive check will look closer to $41,617.52.  

 

Hope this helps my friends and members at CAP.  

 

1931467076_RegularEarly.thumb.png.c6dfc6a1827d634ce6faf97b94df7020.png 

 

 

 

Edited by Decker
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ford pension does not pay much per month.Then comes a reduction  when you reach social security age at 62.In the past,what made being a loyal Ford employee beneficial was the health care you could receive once you retire.Now once you retire,your health care is administered by the union {gives you a real confident feeling?} VEBA fund.Once you turn 65 you apply for medicare and VEBA becomes a secondary payer.In the long run,VEBA may save you from having to purchase additional insurance to supplement medicare for things like dental,vision,prescription.Welcome to the understanding that the retirees ,which if you take the buyout you will soon be,have been paying for the contract ever since the good old,concessionary days, of Bob King.Dont expect the new,fresh workers who Ford hires to replace you,to stand up for you in future contracts.Everyone is in a different financial situation and you have to look over all the details very carefully.I am wondering what is the current co-insurance payment per month of having VEBA?Is that amount expected to increase with more people retiring?Its not a question of 'will I get sick' its a matter on 'when and how'.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/10/2020 at 9:02 AM, Decker said:

Questions Questions.....

 

This may or may not help with one repeated question, "yes" your age will reduce your payable monthly LIB percentage.

 

For a simplified explanation, if a member is calculated to receive $100.00 a month for their LIB and this member is 59 years old. The $100.00 LIB check will be issued for $80.80. The member will only receive a check for $100.00 of the calculated LIB if the member is 62 or older years of age.

 

A member with "85" points and wishes to start receiving LIB payments, the member is 60 years old with 25 years of service which satisfies the 85 point requirement.

 

Being age 60, the member will be reduced to $86.70 for every $100.00 of LIB. If calculated at "my" LIB, 25 years of service will come to $1329.50. With the age reduction this will produce the payable amount to $1152.67. Then there is the bridge benefit of "approximately" $1200.00 a month that will be paid till the member reaches 62 years of age. This will be a total payable monthly benefit of $2352.67. Remember at age 62 the bridge benefit automatically drops. Then if a member applies for S.S. benefits at age 62 or so, the S.S. benefit is reduced because of the age of the member. In most cases the S.S. reduced benefit will not equal the bridge benefit that was dropped. Of course, the $2352.67 is before taxes.

 

For those that were under the impression that any of the rumor`s were true, just do the math and things will look real different from the "I heard" - "they said" accountants. Then one thing for sure the only way a member will receive full calculated LIB is to have "30" years of credited service and be celebrating their "62" birthday.

 

One last thing, "yes" there is a long list of deductions Ford will calculate and... reduce any retirement incentive benefit prior to depositing. With no other deductions then taxes, a $60.000.00 retirement incentive check will look closer to $41,617.52.  

 

Hope this helps my friends and members at CAP.  

 

1931467076_RegularEarly.thumb.png.c6dfc6a1827d634ce6faf97b94df7020.png 

 

If you 30 years there is no penalty from what I was told by the benefits rep.

 

 

Edited by cecilmeyer
misspell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"If you 30 years there is no penalty from what I was told by the benefits rep."

 

30 years of service times LIB code "C" which is $53.20 equals $1596.00 a month before taxes. You will receive 100% of the $1596.00 LIB if you are 62 years of age.  

 

At 58 years of age your code "C" LIB monthly check will be reduced (not penalized) by 24.8% for a monthly total of $1200.19.

 

Now add a ball park figure of your bridge benefit of $1200.00 to the LIB of $1200.19 and until you reach 62 years of age your monthly check will look like this $2400.19. The month after you reach 62 years of age that will be the first month your monthly Ford check will look like this $1200.19

 

Then if you apply for S.S. at 62 years of age you will see the next group of reductions. In my case 66 and 4 months is the age I will need to be if I want full S.S. benefit per month. At 62 and 1 month I will lose just over $900 a month for ever from the full S.S. monthly benefit.

 

There are no listed "penalties", just requirements that have to be met to get the 100% LIB. For every lack of meeting the requirement there is a reduction. 

 

Both Thomas and Sergio would point to page #228 in volume II of the 2015 master agreement also, good luck Cecil. 

Edited by Decker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes taxes and spouse survivor benefit will be deducted from your monthly check. If you select a 50% spouse survivor benefit that is separated deduction listed on your check every month for about $300. Note to payer of spouse survivor deductions... there is no refund if your spouse just happens to go first. 

 

VEBA copays vary with coverage options. Ford retiree`s are listed in VEBA as "protected". This allows for certain options like a one time $20 copay per prescription for a year if you choose a certain provider. I think that $20 would be a payroll deduction process. 

 

Members have been kept in the dark by those that represent the same members that pay for the representatives retirement plan and retirement health care plan with no reductions and no copays for so long. Then there are the retired members that talk that "I" get a $3800 a month pension check and "I" get a $3200 a month from S.S. check also for such a long time that the average member can`t figure out what is the payout or coverage. But its right there in black and white. 

 

Then the bullshit of "if you work thirty years you get a full pension" or "after thirty years you should be able to retire" or "the after I get thirty I will not need that much so I`m retiring".... after doing a term as secretary/treasurer during the first round of, why they call them buy outs beats me, retirement incentives and severance agreements I didn`t have one day after the checks were received that 10, 20 or more members were there asking questions and making statements like, "no one said I couldn`t change my mind"... "why can`t I pay back the money (some even said through payroll deduction) and come back to work?" and one of the best was "how do I reapply as an entry level employee?" Now there was the happy, successfully retired members but dam they never darken my office door. Or for that matter were never seen at the hall again. I`d run into them at different public places having dinner or shopping. (there were a few I bumped into while shopping that asked if I`d like a shopping cart...) 

 

People this shit is real, it is in and has been in the volume II for a long time. If someone says there isn`t a penalty they are correct because its not a penalty it is a reduction in your monthly benefit check. The reductions are deduction just like taxes they are pulled before you even see the check. Reduction are unlike taxes in that taxes will reduce in time, reductions stay the same for the rest of your life. 

 

I wish all ready to jump... all the luck and happiness retirement should bring. But, when time comes to pull the cord I hope their planning parachute is in great condition. 

Edited by Decker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow!  this is very informative!  Let me get this right Decker, to receive 100% retirement benefits you have to have 62 years old and 30 years of service?  I was planning on retiring at the age of 56 and 31 years of service.  But i was counting at $3,077.84 , is that wrong?  

Your Pension Benefit  excluding  Monthly Supplements

Monthly Supplement

$980.19

$2,097.65

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, chassisgroupleader said:

Wow!  this is very informative!  Let me get this right Decker, to receive 100% retirement benefits you have to have 62 years old and 30 years of service?  I was planning on retiring at the age of 56 and 31 years of service.  But i was counting at $3,077.84 , is that wrong?  

Your Pension Benefit  excluding  Monthly Supplements

Monthly Supplement

$980.19

$2,097.65

 

If you have 31 years then multiply that by LIB code C which is 53.80 (my LIB code as listed in the 2015 agreement, group leaders might be a higher code possibly) that would equal what your pension benefit would be if you were to fulfill the age requirement. My full pension at 31 years would be a pension benefit of $1667.80 at 62. Now if you look at the age requirement chart for age 56, the column under Percentage of Life Income Payable you will see the percentage of payable pension benefit is 63.5 percent. With my $1667.80 for age 62, it is then reduced to $1058.54 at age 56. Now my $1667.80 is based on my hourly rate and will be slightly different from all other LIB code`s because of a different hourly rates. Your $980.19 and my $1058.54 is about $68 different that is nothing more than different rates of pay causing that slight difference. But there is the reason your $98019 is 63.5% of your full pension benefit. 

   

If the supplement (bridge benefit) has raised to $2097.65 (from my generalized $1200 estimate) that is great. But if your figure is correct and I have no reason to think or assume it is not, there are to things to realize. First the deductions on the bridge and pension check of $3077.80 would be reduced by $861,56 (28% total) for a total tax deduction State, Federal, FICA and all the other taxes. Which would make the monthly combination benefit check looking more like $2216.28. In the event you elect to do a survivors benefit coverage at the 50% rate the combined monthly check would look more like this $1916.28.  

 

On your 62 birthday that will be your last month for the $2097.65 part of your monthly gross benefit amount. You will receive the very next month your first pension check at $980.19 gross. Now if you can get into a total tax rate of 20% on your 62 birthday (good luck with that) your tax deduction will be $196.03. The first pension check after your 62 birthday would look like $ 784.16, 

 

Then there is Social Security, full benefit has an age requirements also. In my situation 66 years and 4 months is the only way I will receive full benefit checks. If I elected to sign up for social security at age 63, as calculated on last weeks letter from S.S. Administration I would see a $780 (approx.) a month reduction from my full benefit at 66 and 4 months. Why I say "my" benefit because almost every member has a different annual earnings total and that is averaged in the last 7 years before applying for social security and that income average is what social security factors when calculating everyone's monthly benefit check. If you only have claimed/taxable income of a Ford pension/bridge benefit income from 56 to 62 that will reduce your current estimated "full" social security payable benefit check. Then applying for social security at age 62 your social security payable benefit will be reduced again.

 

These reductions in your social security benefit check will not in most cases equal your bridge benefit that stopped at 62 and 1 month. "If" in some far reaching long shot the social security and pension checks gets close to reaching the pension/bridge benefit check for $3077 a month (it won`t) The combined total once a month of $1916 take home pay... might take a little time to adjust too, for some members.     

 

Oh... the $784.16 pension benefit check will be reduced for survivor benefit coverage and VEBA copays, also. 

 

https://uaw.org/uaw-auto-bargaining/fordcontract/

scroll down to this

 "CLICK HERE FOR THE 2019 CHANGED PAGES BOOK"

Then scroll down to the volume II page "39 D" which is the book page "554" here you will find LIB codes that base hourly classification rates determine. Even with this information some guessing will need to be done. Because as always this is a PDF that isn`t complete. Wonder when we will receive an actual hard copy, 2022???

Edited by Decker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

so how much do you get if Ford goes bankrupt and sells off the company within the next 10yr, don't rely on UAW or Ford for your future. Your retirement pension is about as secure as the dues you pay.

 

STEP, will signup Jan 27 and the window closes Feb 28. You can sign away your chance to revoke and leave before Feb 28.. It doesn't matter what manpower issues there is, they have to let you go before April 1st. I got the paperwork to back this statement.

 

SIR ya'll screwed, Depending on your age year hire dates etc you might not get out till Nov 2021 but no earlier then April 1st.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^

Yep. Of course, if we get involved in a Middle East war and the stock market crashes as a result anyone with a pension, stock, bonds, or money in the bank is screwed as well.

 

And if a general war breaks out between the U.S, Russia and China the nukes will fly and none of this will matter anyway.

 

Have a nice day. :)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/17/2020 at 1:31 AM, Ididntdoit said:

so how much do you get if Ford goes bankrupt and sells off the company within the next 10yr, don't rely on UAW or Ford for your future. Your retirement pension is about as secure as the dues you pay.

 

STEP, will signup Jan 27 and the window closes Feb 28. You can sign away your chance to revoke and leave before Feb 28.. It doesn't matter what manpower issues there is, they have to let you go before April 1st. I got the paperwork to back this statement.

 

SIR ya'll screwed, Depending on your age year hire dates etc you might not get out till Nov 2021 but no earlier then April 1st.

I signed up for SRI-special retirement incentive because I am eligible to retire based on years of seniority.If I get have to get real lucky. I was told in the trades it will probably take 43 years to get the buyout.The SRI package comes with VEBA participation.The STEP-special TERMINATION employee package does not.You take a STEP then you are not entitled to participate in VEBA.Also I noticed the legalize regarding when the buyout checks arrive.Let me paraphrase the way I understand that.There is NO set time as to when you will receive your money.It will depend on what is best for the companies balance sheet and quarterly wall street report.A person looking to also claim social security might have to delay their first check due to the earnings limit cap but I would have to ask the social security office to be sure.If you are planning to participate in VEBA,check into how much it will cost you per month.I think it is $17 for individual and $34 for family.Also you must pay the first $400 of costs before VEBA kicks in which may include trips to the dentist as well.I am not saying this is good or bad,just trying to get a handle on what the landscape will look like IF I do get a buyout.Also a perosn leaving under the SRI would need to file for a pension using the NESC system.I asked the person handing out the forms,a seemingly knowledgeable "old timer" if the company was offering buyouts because they want to hire in new workers for less money.His opion was that the company really does not like doing this but the UAW basically hit a home run for {my opinion} production.The level in union representation between being a UAW production worker and a UAW skilled trades workers is enormous.200 token buyouts?Just so the union can claim TRADES BUYOUTS?I am not into production vs trades {I know one works,one dont}and one thing for sure I have learned is the phrase,"die mother lover" ,is the standard response when a person reaches out for understanding inside of an auto plant.This being an employee forum I just wanted to say that I am disappointed in the way that the union represents me as a tradesman.That being said I am glad for my production UAW brothers and sisters.Do your due diligence before you leave and good-luck to all.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

On 1/28/2020 at 10:11 AM, Fatso said:

I signed up for SRI-special retirement incentive because I am eligible to retire based on years of seniority.If I get have to get real lucky. I was told in the trades it will probably take 43 years to get the buyout.The SRI package comes with VEBA participation.The STEP-special TERMINATION employee package does not.You take a STEP then you are not entitled to participate in VEBA.Also I noticed the legalize regarding when the buyout checks arrive.Let me paraphrase the way I understand that.There is NO set time as to when you will receive your money.It will depend on what is best for the companies balance sheet and quarterly wall street report.A person looking to also claim social security might have to delay their first check due to the earnings limit cap but I would have to ask the social security office to be sure.If you are planning to participate in VEBA,check into how much it will cost you per month.I think it is $17 for individual and $34 for family.Also you must pay the first $400 of costs before VEBA kicks in which may include trips to the dentist as well.I am not saying this is good or bad,just trying to get a handle on what the landscape will look like IF I do get a buyout.Also a perosn leaving under the SRI would need to file for a pension using the NESC system.I asked the person handing out the forms,a seemingly knowledgeable "old timer" if the company was offering buyouts because they want to hire in new workers for less money.His opion was that the company really does not like doing this but the UAW basically hit a home run for {my opinion} production.The level in union representation between being a UAW production worker and a UAW skilled trades workers is enormous.200 token buyouts?Just so the union can claim TRADES BUYOUTS?I am not into production vs trades {I know one works,one dont}and one thing for sure I have learned is the phrase,"die mother lover" ,is the standard response when a person reaches out for understanding inside of an auto plant.This being an employee forum I just wanted to say that I am disappointed in the way that the union represents me as a tradesman.That being said I am glad for my production UAW brothers and sisters.Do your due diligence before you leave and good-luck to all.

 

when signed up for STEP paperwork clearly states check will be sent out 4-6 weeks after last day, VEBA is a joke wouldn't mess with it. Here at CAP they're moving to end a shift, Chairman got them to cut hours instead for the month of Feb to keep those votes he'll need to stay in office. Forcing seniority workers to work short work weeks to keep those new hires on long enough to get their vote. I'm tried of this BS just let me go so I can buy that new Tesla and say screw Ford

Link to comment
Share on other sites

STEP is termination,  so you won`t have to be concerned with VEBA or any other insurance until you happen to need a doctor or hospital. Then it may become a little concern at the 2020 tax filling time.  

Good luck ididntdoit

 

Buy a new Tesla  …...well 41K will get some kind of Tesla I guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ididntdoit said:

 

 

when signed up for STEP paperwork clearly states check will be sent out 4-6 weeks after last day, VEBA is a joke wouldn't mess with it. Here at CAP they're moving to end a shift, Chairman got them to cut hours instead for the month of Feb to keep those votes he'll need to stay in office. Forcing seniority workers to work short work weeks to keep those new hires on long enough to get their vote. I'm tried of this BS just let me go so I can buy that new Tesla and say screw Ford

SRI information sheet said 4-6 weeks, but the paperwork that I signed says "...payable as soon as reasonably practicable after separation from employment". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/23/2020 at 4:43 PM, cal50 said:

I lost count how many people died at work or that just retired and never got a single retirement check.

 

The house always wins.

 

 

 

I meet several people last summer who retired from Ford after working 30 years and have now been retired more years than they worked. One of the men I met has been retired 33 years.

 

One was a couple who said the key was they stayed active, ate right, and watched their spending and they said they have just loved their retirement.

 

They spend several months in Florida every year, travel some and just enjoy life. They said having no debt the day they retired was key.

 

I would say they beat the system, I think they won.

Edited by Dayshift
typo
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Dayshift said:

 

I meet several people last summer who retired from Ford after working 30 years and have now been retired more years than they worked. One of the men I met has been retired 33 years.

 

The days of people hiring in at age 18 , working 30 years and retiring at 48 are over.

Actually if someone did retire at 18+30= 48 and retired for 30 years they would be 78'ish and god bless them.

 

Very little has been added to the pension fund for the last +20 years for legacy employees and the union is into lump sums Vs real pension benefits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...