HotRunrGuy Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 for those that had followed this, the actual TSB used was #19-2139. HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTEcoBoost Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 OK, I've posted this in more detail in the Fusion section, but, yesterday I received a notice about Field Service Action 19B37 in my Ford Owner account (apparently a bunch of Escape owners got it last month). After researching this on the "Net (see link in the Fusion post), it is regarding the cylinder coolant leak on Fusion and Escape EcoBoosts. Not only do the tests take up to 5 hours, but some posters are furious that Ford is not (yet) doing a recall. Due to my low mileage, I feel I can wait a month when I'll be due for an oil change. The saga continues... This probably qualifies for a post in the FMC section (note to Blue Oval staff). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 3 hours ago, CLTEcoBoost said: OK, I've posted this in more detail in the Fusion section, but, yesterday I received a notice about Field Service Action 19B37 in my Ford Owner account (apparently a bunch of Escape owners got it last month). After researching this on the "Net (see link in the Fusion post), it is regarding the cylinder coolant leak on Fusion and Escape EcoBoosts. Not only do the tests take up to 5 hours, but some posters are furious that Ford is not (yet) doing a recall. Due to my low mileage, I feel I can wait a month when I'll be due for an oil change. The saga continues... This probably qualifies for a post in the FMC section (note to Blue Oval staff). There won't be a recall. There may at some point be a warranty extension, but I doubt it. Why are they mad that Ford is somewhat proactively taking action? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTEcoBoost Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Because they're SOMEWHAT proactively taking action. Apparently, there's no guarantee that this "fix" really fixes it. Boy are a lot of people furious with Ford for the problem just to begin with, never mind the "fix". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, CLTEcoBoost said: Because they're SOMEWHAT proactively taking action. Apparently, there's no guarantee that this "fix" really fixes it. Boy are a lot of people furious with Ford for the problem just to begin with, never mind the "fix". I say somewhat because no, there is no guarantee that this FSA will keep your or anyone else's car perfect forever. But let's not concentrate on that "somewhat" portion. -Ford is aware of the potential for problems. -The mailers, and FordPass messages make the customer now aware for the potential for problems and what symptoms to keep a lookout for. -Broadcast and OASIS messages on various levels of Ford's information system have the service department aware of the issue. -They have developed a clear cut route (TSB 19-2139) to diagnose and repair. -They have released the PCM calibration through FSA 19B37 to reduce the potential for said problems to those who do not have issue already. -Also through the FSA the tech will check for any of the 'unseen' symptoms to hopefully catch the issue at its' start, saving the customer money and time. I've seen a whole assload of these cars with BIG numbers on the odometer already and not had one issue. So I ask you, what would you have them do? Edited January 11, 2020 by YT90SC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapism Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/11/2020 at 5:47 AM, CLTEcoBoost said: OK, I've posted this in more detail in the Fusion section, but, yesterday I received a notice about Field Service Action 19B37 in my Ford Owner account (apparently a bunch of Escape owners got it last month). After researching this on the "Net (see link in the Fusion post), it is regarding the cylinder coolant leak on Fusion and Escape EcoBoosts. Not only do the tests take up to 5 hours, but some posters are furious that Ford is not (yet) doing a recall. Due to my low mileage, I feel I can wait a month when I'll be due for an oil change. The saga continues... This probably qualifies for a post in the FMC section (note to Blue Oval staff). Man, you got that right. On the Escape forum I belong to, lots of Escapes are getting their blocks replaced. BTW, where are the blocks actually cast? My engine says Cleveland, but to me that just means assembling, maybe even final machining. But where are they actually cast? Does Neymar cast the blocks for Ford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapism Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/11/2020 at 4:09 PM, YT90SC said: -Also through the FSA the tech will check for any of the 'unseen' symptoms to hopefully catch the issue at its' start, saving the customer money and time. Have you ever had your car serviced at a dealership? You really think that happens? Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 10 hours ago, Escapism said: Have you ever had your car serviced at a dealership? You really think that happens? Seriously? He’s the one doing the servicing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, Escapism said: Have you ever had your car serviced at a dealership? You really think that happens? Seriously? The checks are easy. The IDS pulls codes when you hook up to program. If one of the 9 DTC's is there, it smokes or runs poorly at startup or is low on coolant you investigate as per TSB 19-2375. It is part of the FSA, bud. It sure the f**k does get checked if it is in my bays. Again, IT IS NOT A CASTING ISSUE. It is an open deck design with cuts between the holes that the headgasket cannot hold onto. Edited January 17, 2020 by YT90SC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 The cuts in the block, almost always on cylinders 2 and 3, are the failure points for the headgasket. Has nothing to do with casting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escape20 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I just got a notice in the mail for my 17 Escape 1.5EB which i turned in 2 weeks ago Ford issued a Customer satisfaction program 19B37 to reprogram the power train control module to improve engine cooling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 And this is one reason why I come here.....information! I wasn't even aware of this at all. I have to admit, I don't look at the coolant level very often but I will now. I was able to find this TSB for the 2.0. This is something I will check and keep any eye out for it. I probably will have them test it before my warranty is out to be 100% sure. TSB for 2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 The girlfriend just got a notice for her 2018 Escape...will be calling the dealer on Monday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 41 minutes ago, twintornados said: The girlfriend just got a notice for her 2018 Escape...will be calling the dealer on Monday The FSA? HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 9 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said: The FSA? HRG Customer Satisfaction Program 19B37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapism Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 15 hours ago, YT90SC said: The checks are easy. The IDS pulls codes when you hook up to program. If one of the 9 DTC's is there, it smokes or runs poorly at startup or is low on coolant you investigate as per TSB 19-2375. It is part of the FSA, bud. It sure the f**k does get checked if it is in my bays. Again, IT IS NOT A CASTING ISSUE. It is an open deck design with cuts between the holes that the headgasket cannot hold onto. Good info, thanks. And I don’t mean to disparage all the good mechanics out there. I just got unlucky with the dealership I went to. Ive just got so many questions. The only clue we have right now is the PCM update for 1.5’s that runs the coolant pump after engine shut-off. My guess is the PCM reads what the temp is and this dictates if and how long the coolant is circulated. Maybe a heat spike after shut down is affecting the head gasket. My question is, why is Ford replacing with both long blocks and short blocks. Why not just the head gasket? Lots of questions for sure. I’m kinda regretting trading up from my 2013 2.0 to my 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Escapism said: My question is, why is Ford replacing with both long blocks and short blocks. Why not just the head gasket? Lots of questions for sure. I’m kinda regretting trading up from my 2013 2.0 to my 2017 Scroll back up to YT90SC's posting that shows a picture of a block. The problem is with the saw cuts between the cylinders, so just replacing the head gasket does nothing, except possibly be a short-term fix. Maybe, with the new programming, just replacing the head gasket is feasible. That may not have been determined yet. As mentioned before, they only replace the heads/long block if the spark plus are seized in the head, otherwise, they re-use it. I did not see the block they installed in mine, but I understand that the saw cuts are no longer there, replaced by drilled holes. Honestly, if you are already disappointed with the dealer you used, find another. If you do need a block replacement, it's a multi-week process, so find someone you can work with. HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Is the 2017 Focus ST engine different from the Edge, Escape, Fusion? It's not part of the TSB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapism Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said: Scroll back up to YT90SC's posting that shows a picture of a block. The problem is with the saw cuts between the cylinders, so just replacing the head gasket does nothing, except possibly be a short-term fix. Maybe, with the new programming, just replacing the head gasket is feasible. That may not have been determined yet. As mentioned before, they only replace the heads/long block if the spark plus are seized in the head, otherwise, they re-use it. I did not see the block they installed in mine, but I understand that the saw cuts are no longer there, replaced by drilled holes. Honestly, if you are already disappointed with the dealer you used, find another. If you do need a block replacement, it's a multi-week process, so find someone you can work with. HRG Well, not really sure how to feel about this. The numbers aren’t high enough for a recall. No public outcry and no injury. BUT, it does seem like there is a problem. This reminds me of the EPAS steering issue with pre-2013 Escapes. Many owners are left holding the bag. Also reminds me of the rust issue and the PowerShift issue. Edited January 18, 2020 by Escapism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I'm not sure what all the reprogram does- just have to go with what we have been told. Haven't compared them apples to apples yet. Not sure I will get the time to. I *assume* that it has something to do with the fact that they run the coolant in the head hotter than in the block for greater thermal efficiency and that causes a temp differential at some point. Temp differentials will cause things to expand and contract at different rates. Not a big deal during times of no change in temperature, but bad during cool down and warm up, potentially. Also assuming they are re-writing boost/fuel/timing maps to reduce cylinder pressures, but that is just conjecture. They seem to run the same before and after programming, so hard to say. The issue with replacing blocks is that they often warp or erode in the location of the fire ring portion of the gasket failure and "can't be reused". Potentially they could be machined, but over my career, I've seen Ford strongly move away from machining in the field. Too many variables for them to control. Honestly Escapism, if you are concerned and close to the 5 year or 60k end of standard powertrain warranty, get a powertrain ESP. I know it sucks to lay out the cash for it, but it is relatively cheap insurance and peace of mind. There are plenty of dealers online who will sell you one near cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 hours ago, coupe3w said: Is the 2017 Focus ST engine different from the Edge, Escape, Fusion? It's not part of the TSB. Yes in the sense that the Focus ST doesn't have a gen 2 EcoBoost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I feel kinda stupid for even asking this, but what is the difference in a short block vs. long block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I feel kinda stupid for even asking this, but what is the difference in a short block vs. long block? Short block has no cylinder heads. Long block does. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapism Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 hours ago, YT90SC said: Honestly Escapism, if you are concerned and close to the 5 year or 60k end of standard powertrain warranty, get a powertrain ESP. I know it sucks to lay out the cash for it, but it is relatively cheap insurance and peace of mind. There are plenty of dealers online who will sell you one near cost. Very sound advise! I’m at 27,000 miles on my 2017 right now. Bought it used from the dealer (Dealer GM drove it for 7000 miles, titled it) and they gave me PremiumCare until 48,000 miles (Dec 2021) and PowertrainCare until 100,000 miles (Dec. 2024). So your saying my PowertrainCare will cover me in this particular scenario? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Escapism said: Very sound advise! I’m at 27,000 miles on my 2017 right now. Bought it used from the dealer (Dealer GM drove it for 7000 miles, titled it) and they gave me PremiumCare until 48,000 miles (Dec 2021) and PowertrainCare until 100,000 miles (Dec. 2024). So your saying my PowertrainCare will cover me in this particular scenario? Ford goes by the VIN/miles/in service date and and base number of the causal part for any warranty claim. It can get cloudy in some instances, but the causal part for TSB 19-2375 is listed as 6009, which should be covered for the entirety of your PowertrainCare coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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