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The Transit cutaway apparently has AWD. Isn't this a pretty huge deal?


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1 hour ago, akirby said:


Or they squeezed the supplier too hard....

 

I dunno-if Ford doesn't have a "solution" to the problem (From what I understand its just replacing the part with the same thing), it would indicate to me that there is an engineering issue-either with cost (the replacement or improved part costs too much) or the part just doesn't work properly as intended

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11 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Or maybe supplier let them down with poor quality parts..

 

Redesigned guibos are still failing. The ones that have had replacement U/Joint shafts installed, aren't.

 Live axle vs IRS means nothing. The Transits have one or more carrier bearings that hold them to the body so there is no flex across the joint other than that provided by powertrain mounts. None of the other applications mentioned are high load across the guibo. Ford screwed the pooch here. It's a part that should have never been used in a heavy, high load application.

There is a real concern here for Explorers that will be loaded down AND tow. 

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1 hour ago, YT90SC said:

 

Redesigned guibos are still failing. The ones that have had replacement U/Joint shafts installed, aren't.

 Live axle vs IRS means nothing. The Transits have one or more carrier bearings that hold them to the body so there is no flex across the joint other than that provided by powertrain mounts. None of the other applications mentioned are high load across the guibo. Ford screwed the pooch here. It's a part that should have never been used in a heavy, high load application.

 

So why aren't they falling on the EU models that are using the same thing?

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Early on in the recall, Ford was replacing the flex couplers every 30,000 miles until a permanent fix could be found,

maybe they are just dragging their feet on this until they use up a warehouse full of deficient flex couplers?

 

There was talk but I can't confirm if the 2019 on models got six U-Joints instead of the flex couplers

but if that's so, it will assist any ongoing law suits.....

Edited by jpd80
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5 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

So why aren't they falling on the EU models that are using the same thing?

 

Are they using the same parts? Are they NOT failing? 

 

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

 

There was talk but I can't confirm if the 2019 on models got six U-Joints instead of the flex couplers

but if that's so, it will assist any ongoing law suits.....

I believe this is the secondary reason, changing the design will open the door to lawsuits. The primary has to be the cost of retrofitting thousands of vans with new shafts and output flanges for the trans.  

 

6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

 

So, like 5 of them? 

 

You want to be one of the 5 to find out when the shaft rips through the floor and takes out everything near it? Cause that is what it does in Transit. 

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1 minute ago, YT90SC said:

You want to be one of the 5 to find out when the shaft rips through the floor and takes out everything near it? Cause that is what it does in Transit. 

 

Nope, not in the market, I just bought a Flex. Besides, if I'm doing serious towing (something more than a fishing boat locally), I'm buying  properly equipped Expedition or more likely a F-Series truck. 

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12 minutes ago, YT90SC said:

I believe this is the secondary reason, changing the design will open the door to lawsuits. The primary has to be the cost of retrofitting thousands of vans with new shafts and output flanges for the trans.  

This from the second recall in October,

Quote

 

Ford recalls vans for 2nd time to fix drive shaft problem

Associated PressPublished 12:15 p.m. ET Oct. 29, 2019

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2019/10/29/ford-recalls-transit-vans-second-time-drive-shaft-problem/40476375/

Detroit – Ford is recalling nearly 320,000 Transit full-size vans in North America for a second time because the drive shafts can fail, causing loss of power.

 

The company says the recall covers the 2015 through 2017 model years. The drive shaft coupling can crack, and continued driving can cause the shaft to break free. In addition to power loss, a falling shaft can allow movement while in park if the parking brake isn’t on. The shaft also can damage brake and fuel lines.

 

Ford says it’s not aware of any crashes or injuries due to the problem.

 

It’s the second recall for the same problem. Ford says it will replace the couplings every 40,000 miles until a final repair is developed. Dealers will do a permanent fix once parts are ready.

 

Ford needs to look after its fleet buyers or lose massive sales,

it's different to pissing off single sale retail buyers................... 

Edited by jpd80
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15 hours ago, jpd80 said:

This from the second recall in October,

Ford needs to look after its fleet buyers or lose massive sales,

it's different to pissing off single sale retail buyers................... 

 

Sorry, I wasnt clear. The first recall with the "updated" guibo, blast shield and extended bushing was so they could avoid opening to lawsuits. When the updated coupler fails, the blast shield is NOT stopping the shafts. They are working on a way to just replace the flange and part of the driveshaft, I am sure rather than the whole shaft which will be cost prohibitive. Either way, I am sure they will figure impossible in the field labor times. The service tech always loses when Ford screws the pooch. 

Edited by YT90SC
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On 12/5/2019 at 2:08 AM, jpd80 said:

Or maybe supplier let them down with poor quality parts..

 

Not trying to be an asshole but I am sick of this excuse.  And that goes for any manufacturer.   Ford has the ability to choose their supplier and quality of parts.  Ultimately, the blame is on the manufacturer regardless of whether it’s an engineering or supplier issue.   The supplier name is not plastered on the final product.  

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8 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

Not trying to be an asshole but I am sick of this excuse.  And that goes for any manufacturer.   Ford has the ability to choose their supplier and quality of parts.  Ultimately, the blame is on the manufacturer regardless of whether it’s an engineering or supplier issue.   The supplier name is not plastered on the final product.  

i tend to agree with that and I'm thinking that in lower powered diesel application, the flex couplers are probably fine

but add the extra HP and initial torque multiplication of gas engines  could be enough to  find them out.

Pretty sure that in later Transits,  Ford has wised up and  moved away from these flex couplers .....

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Just now, jpd80 said:

i tend to agree with that and I'm thinking that in lower powered diesel application, the flex couplers are probably fine

but add the extra HP and initial torque multiplication of gas engines  could be enough to  find them out.

Pretty sure that in later Transits,  Ford has wised up and  moved away from these flex couplers .....

Yeah I agree with what you are saying regarding the flex couplers.  But the “supplier” excuse tends to be mentioned for recalls and issues that occur on a regular basis.  

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45 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

Yeah I agree with what you are saying regarding the flex couplers.  But the “supplier” excuse tends to be mentioned for recalls and issues that occur on a regular basis.  

It does tend to happen though,

We had one recently with continental putting out bung diesel injectors in the 2.0 Panther diesels

going into lots of Euro Fords as well as Transits and Global Rangers, an absolute fiasco where the

internal coating was flaking away and blocking the injectors. All because someone decided to save

some money...

Edited by jpd80
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1 hour ago, 02MustangGT said:

Yeah I agree with what you are saying regarding the flex couplers.  But the “supplier” excuse tends to be mentioned for recalls and issues that occur on a regular basis.  


It absolutely happens though and sometimes it’s out of the mfrs control, even though they’re still responsible for it.

 

Case in point - fuel tanks on 1st gen Ford Edge.  They corroded to the point they started leaking.  The tank mfr had to redesign the tank then run a special batch of replacement tanks while edges sat at dealerships for months.  That one was squarely on the supplier.  The best you can do on those is try to catch them early and correct it before vehicles are sold but that’s not always possible.

 

And to be fair a lot of times it’s due to Ford squeezing the suppliers too much on cost.  

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I'm aware that AWD was coming to the vans, but this was was the first news I've seen of it coming to the cutaways.

 

I can't recall such a thing ever happening before.

 

Back when the Express had factory AWD it wasn't a feature of the cutaways. And IICR, the Sprinter cutaway doesn't come with the 4WD.

 

Would it be possible for Ford to implement AWD in the E-Series?

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3 minutes ago, zipnzap said:

I'm aware that AWD was coming to the vans, but this was was the first news I've seen of it coming to the cutaways.

 

I can't recall such a thing ever happening before.

 

Back when the Express had factory AWD it wasn't a feature of the cutaways. And IICR, the Sprinter cutaway doesn't come with the 4WD.

 

Would it be possible for Ford to implement AWD in the E-Series?

 

The only 4WD E-Series I know of are all conversions done by Quigly in PA. For the small E-Series volume and the availability of Transit AWD's there's little need for Ford to offer 4WD E-Series. 

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On 12/6/2019 at 11:38 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:

There are internal measures being taken to ensure quality from suppliers is what it should be. I see the check tags every day. 

 

 

I've heard stories when Edison was open of them reviewing wiring harnesses for the Ranger and them having to return/throw out/whatever a significant amount of them because of issues. Its both a Ford and supplier issue. 

 

This happens everywhere-an old company I used to work for got a contract from the government because the old supplier wasn't checking the operating frequencies of the part and was basically submitting copy and pasted test results. The government did an audit and went WTF with the test results sheets. 

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