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Ford workers break their silence on faulty transmissions: 'My hands are dirty. I feel horrible'


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23 minutes ago, theoldwizard said:

Has anyone ever heard from one owner who has said. "yes, it is fixed now and it drives good !"  ?????

 

I would never buy one of those cars !

 

 

It can be a very mixed bag of results. I had a fleet manager tell me that he advised his  drivers not to hold the cars on hills and to avoid conditions that build up heat in the clutches. The vehicles were sold at around 60,000 miles with no major issues. 
I’ve also seen many reports from retail buyers who have had no end to trouble with their cars.

 

while following this train wreck several people I know asked me about buying a power shift Focus, this was about 2014 and I steered them to the Mazda 3 auto, all of them operated faultlessly 

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1 hour ago, theoldwizard said:

Has anyone ever heard from one owner who has said. "yes, it is fixed now and it drives good !"  ?????

 

I would never buy one of those cars !

 

 I wonder if anyone has been able to determine if any losses have occurred as far as resale/trade-in value?  With all the negative press on these vehicles, I can't imagine that people are running out to purchase used ones.

 

HRG

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52 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

 I wonder if anyone has been able to determine if any losses have occurred as far as resale/trade-in value?  With all the negative press on these vehicles, I can't imagine that people are running out to purchase used ones.

 

HRG

The local Mazda dealer wouldn't even make an offer to my daughter on her '14. That means her "resale" value is $0. 

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24 minutes ago, 351cid said:

The local Mazda dealer wouldn't even make an offer to my daughter on her '14. That means her "resale" value is $0. 

CarSense in Pennsylvania and New Jersey sells alot of them, at good prices. I'm sure they would take it at wholesale if it's in very good shape, with no accidents.

https://www.carsense.com/search/?make=9&model=63&type=All+Types

Edited by PeterC6482
added sentence at the end. added web site link.
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2 hours ago, akirby said:

We traded daughter's 2012 in 2016 and got $8K for it with 70K miles.  I thought it was a fair price given the mileage.

I am surprised that any car dealer would not take in one as a trade...they can always sell it at wholesale..the values are known.

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On 12/10/2019 at 1:47 PM, akirby said:

 

I don't disagree with that premise for certain things, but here is my position on faulty components:

 

Every vehicle has faulty components at some point and every vehicle comes with a LIMITED WARRANTY.  You can choose to purchase additional coverage.   There is no guarantee that a vehicle will not have problems or won't have repeated problems.  That's what the warranty is for.   If your vehicle has more problems than you are willing to entertain (with or without a warranty) then get rid of it and get something else.  Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to keep it.  I don't expect the mfr to go above and beyond the warranty because that's the contract we made at purchase time.  If they choose to extend the warranty or go above and beyond then kudos to that mfr and that will certainly affect whether customers continue to purchase from them.  Likewise if they don't.   It's your choice as a consumer.  And if you say that you can't get something new because you're upside down on a loan - well that's not the mfrs fault.

 

People seem to expect an unlimited warranty against any kind of defect that occurs more than once.  Especially after they've refused to purchase available extended warranty protection. 

 

 

There is a BIG difference between a defective part going out and a design flaw.  I buy ESPs to cover unexpected repairs from the occasional defective part.  I do not buy them to cover design flaws that will continue to fail over and over.

 

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15 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said:

 

 

There is a BIG difference between a defective part going out and a design flaw.  I buy ESPs to cover unexpected repairs from the occasional defective part.  I do not buy them to cover design flaws that will continue to fail over and over.

 

 

EXACTLY!!!!  I'm in the same position now with the 1.5L Eco-BOOM in my 2018 Escape. 2 years & 25K old, and it's at the dealer for 3 weeks now getting a new short block, 1 of 5 that the dealer is working on with the same problem.  There is no way in good conscience that I could possibly keep this vehicle after the 5yr/60K powertrain warranty expires, and risk having to pay for this myself, or have to invest more money into the vehicle by purchasing an extended warranty.

 

Unfortunately, with Ford's insistence of using this technology, and as attractive my opportunity of using the Z-Plan is, I will probably have to look elsewhere.

 

HRG

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1 hour ago, blwnsmoke said:

 

 

There is a BIG difference between a defective part going out and a design flaw.  I buy ESPs to cover unexpected repairs from the occasional defective part.  I do not buy them to cover design flaws that will continue to fail over and over.

 


There is no difference.  A defect is a defect and a warranty is a warranty.  If there is a recurring problem (for whatever reason) you have to decide if it’s worth keeping it and repairing it (or getting an extended warranty) or walking away from it.

 

Now I’ve always said Ford should extend the factory warranty on certain things and sometimes they do.  But they are not legally obligated to do that.

 

It’s an appliance.  If you don’t like it get rid of it.

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28 minutes ago, akirby said:

A defect is a defect

 

No sir. There is a difference in a company's liability for manufacturing defects versus design defects. The first involves flaws that affect specific samples of a product, but not others, because of variation in the manufacturing process. The second involves inherent flaws in the design or engineering of a product that makes it unreasonably prone to failure when the product is used as intended. DPS6 transmission is an example of a design defect.

 

In Texas, "reasonable alternative design" is a legal standard used in liability cases for design defects, but not manufacturing or sample defects. 

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

It’s an appliance.  If you don’t like it get rid of it.

 

I wish my pockets were as deep as yours.  Hopefully, your loyalty will continue even if your MKX pukes the motor after the warranty expires, and you have to pay for the repair.

 

Keep an eye on that coolant level sir,,,

 

HRG

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

No sir. There is a difference in a company's liability for manufacturing defects versus design defects. The first involves flaws that affect specific samples of a product, but not others, because of variation in the manufacturing process. The second involves inherent flaws in the design or engineering of a product that makes it unreasonably prone to failure when the product is used as intended. DPS6 transmission is an example of a design defect.

 

In Texas, "reasonable alternative design" is a legal standard used in liability cases for design defects, but not manufacturing or sample defects. 


Wrong again.  That only applies to cases involving injury, property damage or death.

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55 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

I wish my pockets were as deep as yours.  Hopefully, your loyalty will continue even if your MKX pukes the motor after the warranty expires, and you have to pay for the repair.


Who said you had to buy a new one?  Sell it and you can easily buy a used model from a different mfr without spending any additional money.

 

And I’m well aware of the water pump issue.  I will change the coolant at 40k miles and if it dies before we trade it And it’s out of factory warranty then I’ll suck it up because I never buy extended warranties.

 

I had a Sony flat screen TV.  It died with exactly the same symptom as other similar Sony TVs that were given extended warranties by Sony.  But my model was not included.  I bought a Samsung and never looked back.

 

Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to drive something you don’t like.  

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16 minutes ago, akirby said:

And I’m well aware of the water pump issue.  I will change the coolant at 40k miles and if it dies before we trade it And it’s out of factory warranty then I’ll suck it up because I never buy extended warranties.

 

Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to drive something you don’t like.  

 

This post of yours is pretty unbelievable;

 

1) For all the hot air you spew about how great Eco-Boost motors are, YOU bought a 3.7NA for your wife.

 

2) For a guy that constantly tells people to spend extra money on extended warranties, YOU don't follow your own advice.

 

Do me a favor, don't bother responding to anymore of my postings. You have NO credibility.

 

HRG

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16 minutes ago, akirby said:


Wrong again.  That only applies to cases involving injury, property damage or death.

 

Depends on the jurisdiction and how strictly they apply the economic loss doctrine. In Texas, there was a decision by Texas Supreme Court a few years back that loosened ELD. Product liability cases seeking recovery for design defects that only involve economic loss of the product in question, without injury/death or damage to other proprerty, are not automatically precluded in Texas now.

 

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4 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

EXACTLY!!!!  I'm in the same position now with the 1.5L Eco-BOOM in my 2018 Escape. 2 years & 25K old, and it's at the dealer for 3 weeks now getting a new short block, 1 of 5 that the dealer is working on with the same problem.  There is no way in good conscience that I could possibly keep this vehicle after the 5yr/60K powertrain warranty expires, and risk having to pay for this myself, or have to invest more money into the vehicle by purchasing an extended warranty.

 

Unfortunately, with Ford's insistence of using this technology, and as attractive my opportunity of using the Z-Plan is, I will probably have to look elsewhere.

 

HRG

The new design blocks aren't failing. They also have a new pcm program 19B37, to address the issue. Not that I think the program is magic, but it is out there. 

 

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It's hard to say what is the right thing to do but Ford has extended the warranties to within a reasonable lifespan of the vehicle.  That doesn't make it right, but they haven't walked away from it either.  It's a bad design that was allowed to continue far too long.  It's also a transmission that can be confounded by the different ways people drive which is why experiences can be so varied, which can also effect durability.   Essentially it's an easy transmission to break unless you drive it a certain way.  For this reason I think Ford can be convinced either way that it's salvageable and didn't act out of malice.  But Ford's own internal testing determined the vehicle could not meet the 125,000 mile lifespan goal which is the ideal for this class of car, other Fords are designed to run at least 150,000 miles.

 

Either way, Ford mistreated these customers by selling these cars with these transmissions and it's hard to respect them for it.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, akirby said:


There is no difference.  A defect is a defect and a warranty is a warranty.  If there is a recurring problem (for whatever reason) you have to decide if it’s worth keeping it and repairing it (or getting an extended warranty) or walking away from it.

 

Now I’ve always said Ford should extend the factory warranty on certain things and sometimes they do.  But they are not legally obligated to do that.

 

It’s an appliance.  If you don’t like it get rid of it.

 

I'll agree to disagree.  A design defect will affect majority of the product and a repair unless the design is changed will continue to fail.

 

If a manufacturer knowingly produces a product that is designed improperly and continues to produce such product, they should be held to a higher standard.

 

Nobody expects their transmission to fail over and over.. nobody expects their EPAS to fail over and over..  nobody expects their water pump to fail and take out the whole engine.  These are all design issues and FORD should be held liable for designing, manufacturing and selling defective designs. 

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8 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

Either way, Ford mistreated these customers by selling these cars with these transmissions and it's hard to respect them for it.  

 

Definitely. In addition, Ford managers mistreated the engineers and others at Ford that tried to get their employer to do the right thing. Just goes to show how horribly corrupt the culture at Ford was and still is. And what a challenging task it is for Jim Hackett to reform that culture.

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49 minutes ago, 92merc said:

The cheapest way out of this fiasco for Ford is to offer either a buyout price towards a new Ford, or extend the warranty up to 200k miles.  After that mark, I don't think anyone can argue that they would have expected their car to run longer.

 

In warranty, Ford has laid out almost as much for DPS6 as they did for 6.0L. Over 3 BILLION by most estimates. 

 

What most are missing in this is that FAILURE rates are low, i.e. "car won't start/move" or other issues that have been reported. The MAJORITY of which are TCM related. Shudder issues on the other hand are near 100%- over if you consider that most of the ones that have been serviced will need serviced again before their date with the crusher.

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2 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

This post of yours is pretty unbelievable;

 

1) For all the hot air you spew about how great Eco-Boost motors are, YOU bought a 3.7NA for your wife.

 

2) For a guy that constantly tells people to spend extra money on extended warranties, YOU don't follow your own advice.

 

Do me a favor, don't bother responding to anymore of my postings. You have NO credibility.

 

HRG


1 - I didn’t want the 3.7L.  It was literally the only vehicle available in stock in our area that had everything else we wanted and we didn’t want to wait to order one.  I would prefer an ecoboost but I’m not unhappy with the 3.7L.  We had an Edge with the 3.5L for 6 years.

 

2 - I have NEVER EVER told anyone to buy an extended warranty.  In fact I tell people NOT to buy them if you want to save money in the long run.  So I don’t know where you got that idea.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Assimilator said:

 

Either way, Ford mistreated these customers by selling these cars with these transmissions and it's hard to respect them for it.  


That I agree with both during development and when they had the opportunity to switch to the 6f35 but didn’t.

 

I’m not letting Ford off the hook here for screwing up.  I’m just saying there is no legal recourse outside of the factory warranty.

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1 hour ago, blwnsmoke said:

 

I'll agree to disagree.  A design defect will affect majority of the product and a repair unless the design is changed will continue to fail.

 

If a manufacturer knowingly produces a product that is designed improperly and continues to produce such product, they should be held to a higher standard.

 

Nobody expects their transmission to fail over and over.. nobody expects their EPAS to fail over and over..  nobody expects their water pump to fail and take out the whole engine.  These are all design issues and FORD should be held liable for designing, manufacturing and selling defective designs. 


They’re only liable to the extent of the limited warranty.  That’s why it’s called a limited warranty.  Otherwise it would be a lifetime warranty,  

 

The way you hold the mfr to a higher standard is you stop buying their vehicles.  And I certainly don’t blame anyone who refuses to buy a new Ford because of those issues.  Just like I refuse to buy Sony TVs.

 

 

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1 hour ago, 92merc said:

The cheapest way out of this fiasco for Ford is to offer either a buyout price towards a new Ford


Not sure about cheapest but I would love to see them offer an extra $2k rebate to get you out of the vehicle and into a new and/or different one.  Otherwise it’s just a normal trade-in.

 

I also think if you have multiple or major problems that can’t be solved easily and quickly during the first 6 months they should buy it back and give you a new one for just the cost of your monthly payments.  Same as lemon law but voluntarily and without hassle.  They’ve done it in some cases but not others.

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