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Ford’s EV Truck Chassis


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38 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Good point.  So what kind of towing range would be acceptable for most buyers - understanding this isn't going to replace a Super Duty or ICE F150 for serious towing.

 

The combination of towing range and the time to recharge is important. What good would a 200-mile range be if you had to charge for 12 hours first? But if you could get a 100 mile range out of a 15 to 30 minute charge, that wouldn't be so bad as long as there are a lot of readily available charging stations. 

 

I always wondered why no one has come up with an electric powered trailer that could possibly be used as a range extender as well. The hardest time an EV has towing is going up a hill. If the trailer could assist, that would really help the range. And you could have the entire roof of the trailer covered in solar panels.

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9 minutes ago, NLPRacing said:

 

The combination of towing range and the time to recharge is important. What good would a 200-mile range be if you had to charge for 12 hours first? But if you could get a 100 mile range out of a 15 to 30 minute charge, that wouldn't be so bad as long as there are a lot of readily available charging stations.

 

My assumption is no field charging (not really viable), so you charge overnight at home (or at work for fleet trucks) then drive all day.  This isn't for people who tow heavy loads and/or tow long distances.  Local delivery and service trucks and landscapers, etc. would probably be fine with a 100-300 mile range with overnight charging.  And that would most certainly work for a lot of regular F150 buyers who rarely tow or carry heavy loads for long distances.

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2 hours ago, NLPRacing said:

 

The combination of towing range and the time to recharge is important. What good would a 200-mile range be if you had to charge for 12 hours first? But if you could get a 100 mile range out of a 15 to 30 minute charge, that wouldn't be so bad as long as there are a lot of readily available charging stations. 

 

I always wondered why no one has come up with an electric powered trailer that could possibly be used as a range extender as well. The hardest time an EV has towing is going up a hill. If the trailer could assist, that would really help the range. And you could have the entire roof of the trailer covered in solar panels.

Im not quite sure that's the application ( at least in todays world )  for an EV truck...I believe its more utility based than a pure tow vehicle....ie Landscapers....utility companies etc etc...#edit...just read akirbys post...in total agreement.

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8 hours ago, akirby said:

 

Good point.  So what kind of towing range would be acceptable for most buyers - understanding this isn't going to replace a Super Duty or ICE F150 for serious towing.

 

  100 miles wouldn't do it in jersey either. Easily 50 miles from north jersey/NY area to many shore spots

towing boat (and that's before you even get off parkway). Maybe eventually they have chargers at ramps,

but they could not be used otherwise, as most private ramps/marinas are locked up when not being used

(would be hard to justify chargers if general public could not use them fro EV cars too). 

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12 hours ago, akirby said:

 

Good point.  So what kind of towing range would be acceptable for most buyers - understanding this isn't going to replace a Super Duty or ICE F150 for serious towing.

You know, I'm not sure. Anyone with experience towing is going to assume that the stated range is wildly optimistic, so the stated range will need to be farther than you'd think to even get them in the showroom. That said, if you could live with 300mi of range, I'd guess you could probably live with 100-150mi of towing range. It's pretty easy to hit 50mi one way on a trip to the Home Depot that has the landscaping bricks the wife wants even if you live in a major metro area out here. 100mi of towing would be cutting it a bit close, and that extra 50mi might make the difference.

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12 hours ago, NLPRacing said:

 

The combination of towing range and the time to recharge is important. What good would a 200-mile range be if you had to charge for 12 hours first? But if you could get a 100 mile range out of a 15 to 30 minute charge, that wouldn't be so bad as long as there are a lot of readily available charging stations. 

 

I always wondered why no one has come up with an electric powered trailer that could possibly be used as a range extender as well. The hardest time an EV has towing is going up a hill. If the trailer could assist, that would really help the range. And you could have the entire roof of the trailer covered in solar panels.

 

Solar is pretty much a non-starter, even a fully covered trailer.  In the Tesla video from TFL, they were using nearly 1 kWH / mile towing the 4500 lb trailer.  We have a 10.7 kW solar system on our shed.  That's 36 3'x5' panels producing 325 Watts per panel.  On a GREAT day, we can generate 80 kWH of power.  That's 80 towing miles in a day with 540 sq-ft of solar panels.  A 100% covered, 30' trailer is going to give you 240 sq-ft, and it's panels aren't going to be angled, so figure may 30 miles of charge on a GREAT day.  That's a full summer day in the sun.  You would be better off to spend the 10k+ that solar system would cost in batteries.

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14 hours ago, NLPRacing said:

I always wondered why no one has come up with an electric powered trailer that could possibly be used as a range extender as well. The hardest time an EV has towing is going up a hill. If the trailer could assist, that would really help the range. And you could have the entire roof of the trailer covered in solar panels.

 

I can't find it now, but someone has actually come with such a trailer. It has a battery pack and motors to assist the tow vehicle. It has solar panels, but I think those were mostly to power the trailer itself for when you don't have an electrical hookup. The article on this was from a few months back.

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15 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

You know, I'm not sure. Anyone with experience towing is going to assume that the stated range is wildly optimistic, so the stated range will need to be farther than you'd think to even get them in the showroom. That said, if you could live with 300mi of range, I'd guess you could probably live with 100-150mi of towing range. It's pretty easy to hit 50mi one way on a trip to the Home Depot that has the landscaping bricks the wife wants even if you live in a major metro area out here. 100mi of towing would be cutting it a bit close, and that extra 50mi might make the difference.

In your scenario, you would only be towing a heavy load on the return trip.  So towing an empty trailer for 50 miles and a loaded trailer for 50 miles.  A 100 mile towing range when loaded would be more than enough for that.  This is just for the scenario you mentioned, but representative of towing situations when you’re picking up landscaping or building materials.

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One thing I was wondering is if Ford is going to use a single frame setup for the ICE F150, Hybrid, and BEV.  With this setup, they could run one side of the truck with a fuel tank, other side with batteries for the Hybrid.  On the BEV, just fill up the area with batteries since you have no drive shaft in the way.

 

With this frame setup, Ford could juggle how many batteries are needed depending on the application.  Just looking at the diagram, that's how I'm interpreting the implementation.

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5 minutes ago, 92merc said:

One thing I was wondering is if Ford is going to use a single frame setup for the ICE F150, Hybrid, and BEV.  With this setup, they could run one side of the truck with a fuel tank, other side with batteries for the Hybrid.  On the BEV, just fill up the area with batteries since you have no drive shaft in the way.

 

With this frame setup, Ford could juggle how many batteries are needed depending on the application.  Just looking at the diagram, that's how I'm interpreting the implementation.

 

They've already said the BEV F150 is on a bespoke frame/platform.

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5 hours ago, CurtisH said:

In your scenario, you would only be towing a heavy load on the return trip.  So towing an empty trailer for 50 miles and a loaded trailer for 50 miles.  A 100 mile towing range when loaded would be more than enough for that.  This is just for the scenario you mentioned, but representative of towing situations when you’re picking up landscaping or building materials.

That's true, but that trailer is not zero mass, and if it's an enclosed trailer, it might as well be loaded thanks to their brick-like aerodynamics.

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On 12/10/2019 at 8:33 PM, fordmantpw said:

 

Solar is pretty much a non-starter, even a fully covered trailer.  In the Tesla video from TFL, they were using nearly 1 kWH / mile towing the 4500 lb trailer.  We have a 10.7 kW solar system on our shed.  That's 36 3'x5' panels producing 325 Watts per panel.  On a GREAT day, we can generate 80 kWH of power.  That's 80 towing miles in a day with 540 sq-ft of solar panels.  A 100% covered, 30' trailer is going to give you 240 sq-ft, and it's panels aren't going to be angled, so figure may 30 miles of charge on a GREAT day.  That's a full summer day in the sun.  You would be better off to spend the 10k+ that solar system would cost in batteries.

 

I was thinking the solar panels would be more for boondocking than towing.

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On 12/10/2019 at 9:10 AM, NLPRacing said:

 

I always wondered why no one has come up with an electric powered trailer that could possibly be used as a range extender as well. The hardest time an EV has towing is going up a hill. If the trailer could assist, that would really help the range. And you could have the entire roof of the trailer covered in solar panels.

It's not exactly what you're describing, but I saw a picture of a "rescue" trailer for EVs (in Europe, I think)--it used a gas-powered generator to deliver a charge to stranded BEVs. If you're not hung up on looking green and feeling that fossil fuels are evil, that might be a viable range extender for someone who could otherwise live with an electric truck. 

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13 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

It's not exactly what you're describing, but I saw a picture of a "rescue" trailer for EVs (in Europe, I think)--it used a gas-powered generator to deliver a charge to stranded BEVs. If you're not hung up on looking green and feeling that fossil fuels are evil, that might be a viable range extender for someone who could otherwise live with an electric truck. 

 

I've seen the "range extender" trailers, but they don't haul any cargo. A powered assisted trailer, with batteries and maybe a Hydrogen power generator might solve the range issues when towing.

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17 hours ago, NLPRacing said:

 

I've seen the "range extender" trailers, but they don't haul any cargo. A powered assisted trailer, with batteries and maybe a Hydrogen power generator might solve the range issues when towing.

A trailer with a genny that could feed into the tow vehicle seems like it would be easier to manage; f'rinstance, trailer sway can be hard enough to manage without the added complication of adding motive power to the trailer. Obviously, these are things that can be overcome, but if you just have a genny, you don't have to overcome them. Plus, quite a few RVers are already hauling gennies around, so it's already a known quantity.

 

The idea of a "pusher" trailer does have a lot of merit, though--especially if you need to move the trailer and don't want to hook it up to the truck, or if you can "lock" the wheels using the motors, adding some difficulty to trailer theft...

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On the range thing, on an electric pickup I would want what I have on my current F150, 500 to 600 mile range moderately loaded, 400 to 500 fully loaded (temperatures 30 to60 degrees F) with a fill up time of 10 minutes. As I put on 600 to 700 miles a day about a dozen times a year that is reasonable for me. (And my car has a range of 450 to 550 miles in most weather conditions with a shorter fill up time.)

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On 12/14/2019 at 8:19 AM, lfeg said:

On the range thing, on an electric pickup I would want what I have on my current F150, 500 to 600 mile range moderately loaded, 400 to 500 fully loaded (temperatures 30 to60 degrees F) with a fill up time of 10 minutes. As I put on 600 to 700 miles a day about a dozen times a year that is reasonable for me. (And my car has a range of 450 to 550 miles in most weather conditions with a shorter fill up time.)

 

Notgonnahappen.com

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9 hours ago, probowler said:

What is the point of a "zero emission" Truck that can't tow? 

 

I get that many truck owners don't actually do truck things but that's just ridiculous. 

Doing "truck things" doesn't necessarily include towing. I've driven a lot of miles doing "truck things," but relatively few of them have involved a trailer. (Mind you, those trailering miles have been towing things that really did need a truck, but out of my truck's 120,000mi, they didn't add up to a significant percentage.)

 

The concern isn't that an electric truck can't tow (in fact, it should tow even better than a gasoline-powered truck thanks to the nature of electric motors), it's just that it can't tow far enough. Towing severely affects the range of any towing vehicle, but with gas/diesel mills, you're starting with a longer range and you have many more (and faster) fueling options, so it's not as much of an issue for them. 

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I can't imagine any new vehicle engineered for sale in Europe and North America not having electrification baked in. The regulatory framework has been well established for the last 5 years so Ford must have hybrid or PHEV Ranger already in the works. It could be as simple as 48V mild hybrid but rest assured, it will have some type of batteries. 

 

Basically, the only brand new vehicles coming after 2020 without hybrid, PHEV, or full EV options in Europe or US will be something on the very cheap end of the price spectrum. Unless of course you are someone like FCA that is just hoping to merge its way out of not having an electrification strategy.

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