Explorer misses top safety mark

[RadicalX]

Explorer is not bad, but no better than Telluride and Palisade.  Cost containment caused Ford to underestimate the segment.  Ford needs to focus on constructive quality and reliability.  More car reviews are becoming important to consumers and the Internet is quickly spreading the car issues that brands want to hide.

[akirby]

Since when is a Korean made V6 “tried and true”?

 

It is disappointing they didn’t do a better interior in the Explorer given the excellent platform.  It’s hard to compete on price with a company that is ok with 1%-2% profit margins.

[silvrsvt]

23 minutes ago, kyle said:

The Explorer might be outselling them but Kia/Hyundai is limited in plant capacity and dealers.  If you think the Explorer is the better product more power to you but to me it’s not even close. 

 

And the Explorer is coming off a botched launch...and there is only one plant in the world that makes Explorers...the Telluride and Palasades come from two different plants...its an cop out. The Kia/Hyundia products are under cutting the pricing of the competition across the board. I had list prices of all the competition that the Explorer has and its pricing was more or less in line with other lineups, with the ST and Platinum being the outliers...but then again no one else really offers competition in that segment

 

As for a better product-it might be-I like the way the Telluride looks, but obviously Ford has what the actual explorer buyers want-if they didn't sales would be down alot more then they might be, which at last count was only about 2K units vs 2018 November when the last estimate numbers came out. 

 

There's been plenty of cars out there that got awesome review and never sold in the market place. People writing about cars are biased, often are pretentious and basically aren't a real reflection of what the car buying market wants. Just look at the G8 and Chevy Caprice...all auto mags raved over how great it was as a Holden in Austraila but both models where complete sales failures. Can add in Opels imported as Saturns to that list too. 

[rperez817]

53 minutes ago, akirby said:

Since when is a Korean made V6 “tried and true”?

 

Since 2006, when the Hyundai Lambda engine was first introduced. Hyundai Palisade and Kia Telluride use the Lambda II GDI first introduced in 2012, upgraded to 3.8L and Atkinson Cycle operation for a better combination of fuel economy and performance.

 

The Hyundai Lambda engine may lack the pep of the turbo 4-cylinder used in Explorer, but it's much smoother and quieter. More reliable too.

Edited December 19, 2019 by rperez817

[jcartwright99]

7 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Since 2006, when the Hyundai Lambda engine was first introduced. Hyundai Palisade and Kia Telluride use the Lambda II GDI first introduced in 2012, upgraded to 3.8L and Atkinson Cycle operation for a better combination of fuel economy and performance.

 

The Hyundai Lambda engine may lack the pep of the turbo 4-cylinder used in Explorer, but it's much smoother and quieter. More reliable too.

 

I think you meant to say, you like the weak engine better.That engine lacks performance or fuel economy.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

I think you meant to say, you like the weak engine better.That engine lacks performance or fuel economy.

 

Hyundai Lambda II isn't weak, nor is it lacking in performance or fuel economy. Which engine are you referring to?

[jasonj80]

11 hours ago, kyle said:

And then along comes the Koreans with the Telluride which is flying off the lots At full MSRP and winning damn near every head to head competition out there. Their products were brand new also and somehow managed to be a top safety pick. 

I'm sure some Ford dealers have sold an Explorer to 2 at full MSRP as well, but you're an idiot if you're paying full MSRP for either the Kia or the Hyundai just as you're an idiot if you pay full MSRP for an Explorer. The Kia already has 0% financing and both have subsidies leases on them. As for flying off the lots the dealers around here have a ton of them sitting on the lots so not sure they are flying off the lots.

Don't get me wrong they are good vehicles and Hyundai/Kia is doing what is necessary to get into the market, but a 50K Explorer and 34K Kia are going to be vastly different in equipment levels. A 34K Kia will be more closely equipped like a 37K Explorer and even then there will be features on the Explorer that are not on the Kia or Hyundai at that price. The Explorer is priced higher because it can be, just like the Highlander is priced higher than the Explorer. 

[jcartwright99]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Hyundai Lambda II isn't weak, nor is it lacking in performance or fuel economy. Which engine are you referring to?

 

It's not this crown jewel you make it seem to be. 291 peak hp out of a larger V6 is nothing to crow about. It' power or FE in the Tellurude or Pallisade isn't class leading. There is a reason why manufactures are moving away from larger displacement V6's. It seems you like all things Hyundai and Kia get your extreme praises. However, I don't buy it. It's very similar to magazine fluff, that gets distracted that with the shiny interior, pseudo luxury and price.

 

Hyundai does make some good vehicles. I would take a Veloster if I didn't have a child ,for a fun city car. I just think there are folks that are going a bit overboard on what they bring to the table. When the first statement is, "look at what you get for the price". That doesn't necessarily mean its a better vehicle, it's just cheaper.

[rperez817]

12 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

It's not this crown jewel you make it seem to be. 291 peak hp out of a larger V6 is nothing to crow about. It' power or FE in the Tellurude or Pallisade isn't class leading. There is a reason why manufactures are moving away from larger displacement V6's. It seems you like all things Hyundai and Kia get your extreme praises.

 

Where did I say the 3.8L Atkinson Cycle Hyundai Lambda II is a "crown jewel"? It's simply a reliable, smooth, and capable engine that's well suited for what most crossover customers are looking for. Also, your claim that Hyundai and Kia gets my "extreme praises" doesn't make sense either. My family and I don't own any crossover vehicles, or any vehicles made by Hyundai or Kia, and we're not in the market for any.

 

The praise for Hyundai Palisade and Kia Telluride comes from professional reviewers as well as from customers who appreciate the combination of quality, performance, design, and value that both vehicles provide.

[rmc523]

12 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

And the Explorer is coming off a botched launch...and there is only one plant in the world that makes Explorers...the Telluride and Palasades come from two different plants...its an cop out. The Kia/Hyundia products are under cutting the pricing of the competition across the board. I had list prices of all the competition that the Explorer has and its pricing was more or less in line with other lineups, with the ST and Platinum being the outliers...but then again no one else really offers competition in that segment

 

As for a better product-it might be-I like the way the Telluride looks, but obviously Ford has what the actual explorer buyers want-if they didn't sales would be down alot more then they might be, which at last count was only about 2K units vs 2018 November when the last estimate numbers came out. 

 

There's been plenty of cars out there that got awesome review and never sold in the market place. People writing about cars are biased, often are pretentious and basically aren't a real reflection of what the car buying market wants. Just look at the G8 and Chevy Caprice...all auto mags raved over how great it was as a Holden in Austraila but both models where complete sales failures. Can add in Opels imported as Saturns to that list too. 

 

To be fair, as I've pointed out, the monthly total off just 2k included PIU models too since the monthly numbers don't separate the two, so it was actually about a 5k difference combining last years' Explorer and PIU and then comparing the two.

[jcartwright99]

7 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Where did I say the 3.8L Atkinson Cycle Hyundai Lambda II is a "crown jewel"? It's simply a reliable, smooth, and capable engine that's well suited for what most crossover customers are looking for. Also, your claim that Hyundai and Kia gets my "extreme praises" doesn't make sense either. My family and I don't own any crossover vehicles, or any vehicles made by Hyundai or Kia, and we're not in the market for any.

 

The praise for Hyundai Palisade and Kia Telluride comes from professional reviewers as well as from customers who appreciate the combination of quality, performance, design, and value that both vehicles provide.

 

I never said you had a crossover but I've noticed your comments of the Koreans have been glowing (and not just about Telluride and Pallisade), Look, I am not saying you can't have favorable views of other automakers and you must love Ford only.  What makes the Lambda more reliable than a Honda 3.5 or Ecoboost 2.3? I was certain that the Lambda's had a lot of issues with oil consumption and head gasket issues (not sure about L2).

[Assimilator]

I wonder if Explorer has strayed too far from its SUV image.  I like the more low-slung performance-focused approach, but it has lost quite a bit of that traditional Explorer appeal in this transition.  I applaud them for thinking differently however.  

Edited December 19, 2019 by Assimilator

[kyle]

2 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

I'm sure some Ford dealers have sold an Explorer to 2 at full MSRP as well, but you're an idiot if you're paying full MSRP for either the Kia or the Hyundai just as you're an idiot if you pay full MSRP for an Explorer. The Kia already has 0% financing and both have subsidies leases on them. As for flying off the lots the dealers around here have a ton of them sitting on the lots so not sure they are flying off the lots.

Don't get me wrong they are good vehicles and Hyundai/Kia is doing what is necessary to get into the market, but a 50K Explorer and 34K Kia are going to be vastly different in equipment levels. A 34K Kia will be more closely equipped like a 37K Explorer and even then there will be features on the Explorer that are not on the Kia or Hyundai at that price. The Explorer is priced higher because it can be, just like the Highlander is priced higher than the Explorer. 

I priced out an Explorer and it quickly got close to $50k and Still has what I feel is a ok interior compared to the others mentioned. 
 

while I like some of the things on the Explorer they just fucked this launch up every way they can.  

[jpd80]

But it’s no longer August and Ford has moved on past early quality issues, so much that last month’s sales were slightly less than last November even with higher prices and fewer incentives 

 

It comes down to this, in spite of whatever Hyundai Kia offer, people are still picking the Explorer even though it costs more. While some will definitely cross shop, it seems like a lot of folks are sticking with Explorer, so all Ford has to do is make sure it lives up to those expectations.

Edited December 19, 2019 by jpd80

[Assimilator]

I think it's going to be awhile before they fully vet and fix the Explorer and Aviator design, I would give it a couple years personally since there are so many new technologies in there (Platform, Hybrids, PHEVs, Transmissions, etc.).  They just underperformed expectations in crash testing for example so it's going to take a minute to fix that.   I would definitely avoid 2020 Explorer, especially since pricing is going to improve and quality will go up.    

 

As for Explorer sales, keep in mind they are combining Explorer/UI sales right now, so you really have to compare the combined figures to compare to last year.  It's going to be at least a year to stock the right configurations of Explorer and they are also coming back form a substantial inventory drought which can skew sales further.  

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Assimilator

[jpd80]

Inventory is now 67,000

[jpd80]

That inventory number tells me that ford has built up plenty of stock but traditionally, that’s normally a much richer trim mix than you see in year two or three. So maybe, there’s some relief on the way wit a bit of incentive to sweeten the deals. 

[Assimilator]

I genuinely believe Ford under-estimated what the Korean competition was about to do which is sucking some air out of their market, especially with the Explorer's premium pricing and lack of tangibles (Space, Utility, Comfort, Amenities).  It doesn't help that Explorer is facing well published quality issues and just underperformed in the same crash test the Koreans just aced (not to mention the Koreans are out-performing them in quality rankings too).  I know they'll figure it out eventually, but it seems everyday I learn more bad news about this car.  I really see no reason why this Explorer should thrive, it's not a particular compelling or brilliantly executed product.  It's really going to come down to the strength of the name or the niche market for ST and Platinum.  

Edited December 20, 2019 by Assimilator

[rperez817]

9 hours ago, Assimilator said:

I really see no reason why this Explorer should thrive, it's not a particular compelling or brilliantly executed product.  It's really going to come down to the strength of the name or the niche market for ST and Platinum.  

 

Well said Assmilator sir. The Explorer's main competitive advantage is that the "Explorer" name is very strong. And lots of Ford loyalists (sheeple) will buy new Explorers without evaluating the competition. 

 

But your advice about avoiding the 2020 Explorer is very wise, even with the huge rebates and other incentives Ford will put on that model. Beyond the quality issues that always plague new or completely redesigned Ford models in their 1st model year, 2020 Explorer is poorly designed and lacking in value. 

 

Assimilator, have you heard anything about Ford doing an emergency refresh for 2021 Explorer?

[jasonj80]

31 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Assimilator, have you heard anything about Ford doing an emergency refresh for 2021 Explorer?

There have been some trim material changes but most of those are rolling changes to speed assembly and quality. The Explorer gets an interior redo with the new larger 15" screen in 2022. There are going to be packaging changes for 2021, hybrid is going to be available on the XLT 202A and possible Platinum but those might be 2022MY not 2021.

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, jasonj80 said:

There have been some trim material changes but most of those are rolling changes to speed assembly and quality. The Explorer gets an interior redo with the new larger 15" screen in 2022. There are going to be packaging changes for 2021, hybrid is going to be available on the XLT 202A and possible Platinum but those might be 2022MY not 2021.

 

Interesting.  They've been basically skipping interior refreshes lately, so it's nice to hear they'll make some changes here.

[silvrsvt]

On 12/20/2019 at 9:40 AM, rperez817 said:

Assimilator, have you heard anything about Ford doing an emergency refresh for 2021 Explorer?

 

Someone thinks they know more then they actually do.....

[Assimilator]

On 12/20/2019 at 9:40 AM, rperez817 said:

 

Well said Assmilator sir. The Explorer's main competitive advantage is that the "Explorer" name is very strong. And lots of Ford loyalists (sheeple) will buy new Explorers without evaluating the competition. 

 

But your advice about avoiding the 2020 Explorer is very wise, even with the huge rebates and other incentives Ford will put on that model. Beyond the quality issues that always plague new or completely redesigned Ford models in their 1st model year, 2020 Explorer is poorly designed and lacking in value. 

 

Assimilator, have you heard anything about Ford doing an emergency refresh for 2021 Explorer?

 

An emergency refresh for 2021?  I haven't heard anything about that.  I've heard something about a Sync 4 update coming for 2022, I don't know if that comes with a larger screen however.  

[jpd80]

Explorer sales look to be. recovering even with higher prices.

Critics living back in August September are missing all

the good work done by Ford to recover from another bad start 

Inventory is strong, all they have to do is build the right product mix.

[rmc523]

20 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Explorer sales look to be. recovering even with higher prices.

Critics living back in August September are missing all

the good work done by Ford to recover from another bad start 

Inventory is strong, all they have to do is build the right product mix.

 

Anecdotal evidence, but I'm seeing a lot more of them lately - including a few hybrids.