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Mustang Mach E Timeline


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43 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

An ICE age that shows no signs of thawing any time soon.


..honestly, you’d be surprised.  I’ve given many a ride/drive in the 3, including big burly contractors who drive Tundras, Titans, 250s, and 2500s and they all come away very impressed.  People only know what they’ve read or heard about them, then someone they know gets one and the ice is broken on the information dam.  Then they find out the real story.  The get to actually drive it.  They find out how good they are/can be.  Then they want one...

 

...it’s called a preference cascade and once people’s preference changes, the market will shift quickly.  It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen faster than most expect.

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2 minutes ago, novanglus said:


..honestly, you’d be surprised.  I’ve given many a ride/drive in the 3, including big burly contractors who drive Tundras, Titans, 250s, and 2500s and they all come away very impressed.  People only know what they’ve read or heard about them, then someone they know gets one and the ice is broken on the information dam.  Then they find out the real story.  The get to actually drive it.  They find out how good they are/can be.  Then they want one...

 

...it’s called a preference cascade and once people’s preference changes, the market will shift quickly.  It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen faster than most expect.

 

 No, you are so wrong. Tesla has been selling cars since 2008 (along with other electrics) and have yet to make any dent on ICE. Technology and price will drive people away from ICE. Automakers will build what people will buy, not what some delusional analyst thinks will happen in the future. Until range, charge times, and cost fall in line with ICE vehicles the shift will be very long and gradual. When does that happen? I have no idea.

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9 minutes ago, novanglus said:


..honestly, you’d be surprised.  I’ve given many a ride/drive in the 3, including big burly contractors who drive Tundras, Titans, 250s, and 2500s and they all come away very impressed.  People only know what they’ve read or heard about them, then someone they know gets one and the ice is broken on the information dam.  Then they find out the real story.  The get to actually drive it.  They find out how good they are/can be.  Then they want one...

 

...it’s called a preference cascade and once people’s preference changes, the market will shift quickly.  It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen faster than most expect.

 

I have no doubt I'd be impressed.  I know EV's have instant torque and knock-your-head back acceleration, but I don't spend my driving time drag racing.  The past two days I've spent my time driving through 4" of sloppy, wet snow. Difficult, slow driving in below freezing temps.  Lot of tire spin and white knuckle driving.  These are not the best conditions for a BEV vehicle.  Battery range is going to be reduced, probably significantly.  ICE vehicles are just more of a sure-bet to most folks who drive in these conditions. 

 

EVs are indeed the future, you and I just disagree how fast it will happen.  In rural areas, such as where I live, acceptance will be slow.  Probably much faster in urban areas.

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30 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

 No, you are so wrong. Tesla has been selling cars since 2008 (along with other electrics) and have yet to make any dent on ICE. 


The Model 3 is the 9th best selling car. Just a few notches below Fusion. I’m sure (but haven’t bothered to check) that it has both a higher average ATP and a smaller percentage of vehicles going to fleet. It’s had an even bigger impact if you look at it in comparison to luxury sedans. 

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9 minutes ago, sullynd said:


The Model 3 is the 9th best selling car. Just a few notches below Fusion. I’m sure (but haven’t bothered to check) that it has both a higher average ATP and a smaller percentage of vehicles going to fleet. It’s had an even bigger impact if you look at it in comparison to luxury sedans. 

Let’s not cherry pick to fit your narrative. What’s the percentage of ICE vs BEV’s sold in 2019. The whole picture tells you the demand.

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8 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

Let’s not cherry pick to fit your narrative. What’s the percentage of ICE vs BEV’s sold in 2019. The whole picture tells you the demand.


I don’t have a narrative. Tesla is the only company building in such volume.  It’s a chicken or egg problem. 

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I think Ford is going to have hard time with Mach E since it's close, but not nearly close enough to a Tesla.  I don't think Ford is going to do well directly copying Tesla, even if I would like them to, but they need to create EVs that Tesla doesn't have, and I think that starts with larger crossovers.  The main reason I don't buy a Tesla now is because their Model X is outdated (by Tesla standards) and is not as appealing as something like an Aviator.  That's where Ford could do something.   

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Personally I think the market for Tesla like BEVs and the whole buying experience is limited and there is a much bigger market for BEVs that look more like traditional vehicles with traditional features made and supported like traditional vehicles.  The Tesla model won’t scale.

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28 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

I think Ford is going to have hard time with Mach E since it's close, but not nearly close enough to a Tesla.  I don't think Ford is going to do well directly copying Tesla, even if I would like them to, but they need to create EVs that Tesla doesn't have, and I think that starts with larger crossovers.  The main reason I don't buy a Tesla now is because their Model X is outdated (by Tesla standards) and is not as appealing as something like an Aviator.  That's where Ford could do something.   


Contradict yourself much?  

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55 minutes ago, akirby said:

Personally I think the market for Tesla like BEVs and the whole buying experience is limited and there is a much bigger market for BEVs that look more like traditional vehicles with traditional features made and supported like traditional vehicles.  The Tesla model won’t scale.


100% agreed.  The lack of SUVs (X/Y don’t count) is how to beat them. 

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Something that will get a lot of press is when someone beats Tesla on range. Having “near Tesla range” is not good enough. As it is it seems Tesla is getting more range out of a smaller battery than Ford, which is a double penalty in cost and weight. It seems like Rivian may top Tesla in range, but I’m skeptical. It’d be nice a group of companies could fund battery development and charging infrastructure. (Ford, VW, LG for instance).  A revolutionary change in battery technology is what it will take to one up Elon. 

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

The Tesla model won’t scale.

 

Elon Musk admitted last year that Tesla's network of service centers was lacking. This was a big problem as sales of Tesla cars scaled up quickly throughout the world after Model 3 was introduced. Since then, it's been expanding the network (both new centers and increased capacity for existing ones) rapidly.

https://electrek.co/2019/09/16/tesla-expanding-service-max-speed-elon-musk/

 

Also Tesla is opening new one-stop shops (sales, parts, service, tech support, vehicle charging) called Tesla Centers in China. Don't know if Tesla will use this model in other markets. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/26/tesla-centers-are-taking-over-china/

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17 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

I have no doubt I'd be impressed.  I know EV's have instant torque and knock-your-head back acceleration, but I don't spend my driving time drag racing.  The past two days I've spent my time driving through 4" of sloppy, wet snow. Difficult, slow driving in below freezing temps.  Lot of tire spin and white knuckle driving.  These are not the best conditions for a BEV vehicle.  Battery range is going to be reduced, probably significantly.  ICE vehicles are just more of a sure-bet to most folks who drive in these conditions. 

 

EVs are indeed the future, you and I just disagree how fast it will happen.  In rural areas, such as where I live, acceptance will be slow.  Probably much faster in urban areas.


 

...range is most definitely reduced, but the fine motor control of an EV actually provides better traction in such situations.  You can look up YouTube videos of a company putting the AWD system of the Model 3 up against everyone else using rollers and how handily the 3 wins out.  It isn’t even close.  The reaction time of the traction control is just much much quicker and it finds the wheel with traction much faster than ICE cars.

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58 minutes ago, novanglus said:


 

...range is most definitely reduced, but the fine motor control of an EV actually provides better traction in such situations.  You can look up YouTube videos of a company putting the AWD system of the Model 3 up against everyone else using rollers and how handily the 3 wins out.  It isn’t even close.  The reaction time of the traction control is just much much quicker and it finds the wheel with traction much faster than ICE cars.

 

Until the rear bumper falls off because it gets packed with snow

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2 hours ago, novanglus said:


 

...range is most definitely reduced, but the fine motor control of an EV actually provides better traction in such situations.  You can look up YouTube videos of a company putting the AWD system of the Model 3 up against everyone else using rollers and how handily the 3 wins out.  It isn’t even close.  The reaction time of the traction control is just much much quicker and it finds the wheel with traction much faster than ICE cars.

 

Your missing the point.  Traction control of any sort on a BEV will draw more current from the battery, reducing range.  Add the fact that your heater is on (drawing more battery), your defroster is on (drawing more battery), you’re steering with your electric steering (drawing more battery), your headlights are on (drawing more battery), perhaps your radio is on (drawing more battery), and that you’re operating in sub-freezing conditions (really reducing your battery); you really start to wonder if you will make it home, especially if there’s no charging station within 60 miles.   

 

I’m not against EV’s.  I’m just pointing out the realities of owning one in the kind of conditions I face every winter.  Right now, they offer no advantages over an ICE where I live.  None.  I imagine it will be different in 10 years, but for now, no.

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On 12/31/2019 at 10:35 AM, sullynd said:

What does the $500 get me? A place in line?

 

That's pretty much it. When I placed my Mach E deposit on the reservation website, this message appeared before my credit card was charged.

 

"By completing the Reservation Process, you are not ordering or purchasing a vehicle. Participation in the Program does not guarantee you vehicle delivery. Your Reservation does not guarantee a set price for the Vehicle."

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19 hours ago, silvrsvt said:


Contradict yourself much?  

 

Nope!  Ford needs to make things Tesla couldn't make as well as Ford.  Ford seldom thrives by following or duplicating. 

 

And as a Moderator, do you think it's appropriate to pick on members that can't block your annoying abuse?  This happens way too frequently with you. 

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3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

Until the rear bumper falls off because it gets packed with snow


...early production issue since solved.  Be realistic.  Every company has early run reliability issues, see 2020 Ford Explorer’s many problems, including transmission failures at 1000 miles in this very forum.

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1 hour ago, Assimilator said:

 

Nope!  Ford needs to make things Tesla couldn't make as well as Ford.  Ford seldom thrives by following or duplicating. 

 

And as a Moderator, do you think it's appropriate to pick on members that can't block your annoying abuse?  This happens way too frequently with you. 

Pointing out facts is not "picking on".

 

You need to stop trying to be the "know it all" of every thread.

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4 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

?

 

Haven't read about any failing. Leak does not equal failure. 

 

You can find it in this same forum.  Here was the first post...
 

“Page 1 of 3  

saintlaz1     30

 Post Count:645

 

 Status:Offline

 

 Last Activity:4 hours ago

 

 

Posted December 19, 2019

Anyone here or any issues ; I have a 2020 Explorer got it a month ago 1000 miles on it transmission went out left stranded out of my city I was traveling.

dealer hasn’t fully diagnose issue they are saying they have gotten others in with transmission issues

ford has yet to approve a loaner ; district manager won’t call me back

 

its been a nightmare”

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