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KIA and Lincoln not cross shopped.......


CKNSLS

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1 hour ago, twintornados said:

 

Like there was ever a choice?? Apples and oranges....Honda doesn't make a full size truck and Toyotas full size is an also-ran and woefully outdated. But then again, we aren't talking full size trucks...we are talking about SUV's and the apparent aversion by some to "buy domestic".

 

That wasn't it-I had no aversion to buying domestic.  I bought a brand new Exploer-I want to say around the year 2000. It was the one that had the fiberglass strip on the rear hatch that would split-and Ford would or would not cover it depending on how the wind was blowing.  But quite frankly-based on features content and price-others are going to have an aversion to buying "Domestic" when looking at what the Koreans are putting out SUV wise-at the price point.  But time will tell on this. And with the Explorer going up market........

Edited by CKNSLS
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Explorer and Aviator sales now seem to be back on track even with those higher prices and no Incentives.

 

It says a lot about a Ford forum when we praise the competition for cheaper more affordable products

and admonish the reasons why buyers still look past that and buy the more expensive Ford and Lincoln.

 

I do agree that the Explorer and Aviator are probably $4K-$5K  too expensive for the current market,

it's not the slam dunk sale it was a couple of years back, the market is easing back and Ford needs

to be mindful that some incentive spending is good for business.

Edited by jpd80
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50 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Explorer and Aviator sales now seem to be back on track even with those higher prices and no Incentives.

 

It says a lot about a Ford forum when we praise the competition for cheaper more affordable products

and admonish the reasons why buyers still look past that and buy the more expensive Ford and Lincoln.

 

I do agree that the Explorer and Aviator are probably $4K-$5K  too expensive for the current market,

it's not the slam dunk sale it was a couple of years back, the market is easing back and Ford needs

to be mindful that some incentive spending is good for business.

 

It's been widely publicized that all car makers are deeply concerned about affordability.  So you can either use rebates, subsidized leases/financing-or go upmarket and hope you bet pays off. Again-time will tell.

 

Then-you have the wild card of automated driving/Uber type services that will do away with many having that "second" family car.

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24 minutes ago, CKNSLS said:

 

It's been widely publicized that all car makers are deeply concerned about affordability.  So you can either use rebates, subsidized leases/financing-or go upmarket and hope you bet pays off. Again-time will tell.

Ford seems to be staring that down with increased ATPs, the poor launch didn't help but they've recovered.

I just think that Ford needs to be a little less tight with incentives, they're pruning too many potential sales.

Offering about $4K on selected 2020 models this year would be good business as inventory is getting up there..

 

Quote

Then-you have the wild card of automated driving/Uber type services that will do away with many having that "second" family car.

Chickens are coming home to roost with AVs, the auto companies are finding that a much harder sell,

I think the best move is in low speed commercial and public transport systems, not AV Utilities.

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The megalowmart Ford store that absorbed the freestanding Lincoln store I used for service on my Escape (they were awesome) built a new Porsche store and had a “Coming soon... Lincoln” banner on their old Porsche store. It would have been perfect because it was a smaller building.  Somehow they got a Bugatti/Alfa franchise (which is odd, as the local FCA brand(s) chain is strong and had Alfa, and Megalowmart had no FCA brands prior) and put it in the building instead.  So Lincoln is still colocated with Ford.  Alfa made more sense for them than Lincoln. Alfa. 

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19 minutes ago, sullynd said:

The megalowmart Ford store that absorbed the freestanding Lincoln store I used for service on my Escape (they were awesome) built a new Porsche store and had a “Coming soon... Lincoln” banner on their old Porsche store. It would have been perfect because it was a smaller building.  Somehow they got a Bugatti/Alfa franchise (which is odd, as the local FCA brand(s) chain is strong and had Alfa, and Megalowmart had no FCA brands prior) and put it in the building instead.  So Lincoln is still colocated with Ford.  Alfa made more sense for them than Lincoln. Alfa. 

 

How long ago was that? If it was 3-5 years ago there was a LOT of hyperbole surrounding Alfa coming from crazy papa Sergio. They probably bought heavily into the hype, as well as probably got a deal too good to refuse for the franchise fees. 

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10 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

How long ago was that? If it was 3-5 years ago there was a LOT of hyperbole surrounding Alfa coming from crazy papa Sergio. They probably bought heavily into the hype, as well as probably got a deal too good to refuse for the franchise fees. 


Checked their Facebook page - August 2019. 

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13 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford seems to be staring that down with increased ATPs, the poor launch didn't help but they've recovered.

I just think that Ford needs to be a little less tight with incentives, they're pruning too many potential sales.

Offering about $4K on selected 2020 models this year would be good business as inventory is getting up there..

 

I saw advertising for 0% APR and $1500 rebate on 2020 Explorers on a commercial locally. Not sure of any gotchas with it or what its limited to. 

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What I find interesting is that not that long ago all we heard was the explorer going to FWD. Which makes it less capable and it’s cheaper to manufacture, yada yada. 
Ford moves the explorer back to a RWD set up with a better platform,  I’m sure is more expensive, and doesn’t  get recognized for it. Instead it gets beat up for price and so so interiors on low level models. Evidently the FWD vs RWD isn’t as important as it was. 
KIA on the other hand, makes two SUVs with less complicated platforms and drivetrains in an easier package, throws extra goodies to divert your attention and puts a good price on it, and gets a pass to the point it can be cross shopped for luxury vehicles. 
 

I’m sure Kia did a great job hitting the target it intended. However, I will not be convinced it’s better than an aviator and should be crossed shopped. 
So we have a FWD NA v-6 with 8 speed trans against a RWD 400hp v6 10 speed with SLA suspension, optional air suspension, PHEV option and the lesser prevailed because it was cheaper, more visible bang for the buck. 
BMW, MB, Audi, they don’t want the word value associated with their vehicles. Value is associated with cheap. I’m sure Lincoln wants the same. 
Every article googled with Telluride says value! Also, interestingly enough the unimpressive 291hp gets a pass. 
 

Obviously it’s your money and your opinion. By what you will but just because it’s cheaper doesn’t mean it’s better. 

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18 hours ago, tbone said:

 

I think this will slowly be changing. The co-located Ford/Lincoln dealership near me is building a stand alone Lincoln store, which should improve the dealership experience. I suspect this will be a continuing trend since Lincoln finally has enough desirable products to sustain stand alone stores, not to mention the upcoming new product. 

 

I think Lincoln has said going forward they want standalone dealers, and that they want to work toward upgrading them.  But I don't know if there's any timetable.

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Just now, rmc523 said:

 

I think Lincoln has said going forward they want standalone dealers, and that they want to work toward upgrading them.  But I don't know if there's any timetable.

I know Lincoln would definitely want stand alone dealers. However, as we all know, there was not enough Good products that could sustain a luxury dealership alone. Hopefully the tides have turned and they can do so in the coming future. Such a huge investment, the dealer needs highly profitable sales to make it. Hard to do with old  discounted models. I think we are finally seeing some effort worthy from Lincoln. 
IMO Lexus did it right. However, that required tons of money from Toyota to make it happen. I believe it paid off for them. 

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8 minutes ago, akirby said:

Don’t forget they can’t force dealers to move to standalone buildings, only incentivize them.

 

There are plenty of products to support a standalone dealership now.

Which I think is interesting. Hotels are completely the opposite. If the building doesn’t meet the requirements they won’t renew the franchise. Since Lincoln actually has some good stuff now and coming, it’s a shame they can’t be more stringent on the customer experience.

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12 minutes ago, fordtech1 said:

I know Lincoln would definitely want stand alone dealers. However, as we all know, there was not enough Good products that could sustain a luxury dealership alone. Hopefully the tides have turned and they can do so in the coming future. Such a huge investment, the dealer needs highly profitable sales to make it. Hard to do with old  discounted models. I think we are finally seeing some effort worthy from Lincoln. 
IMO Lexus did it right. However, that required tons of money from Toyota to make it happen. I believe it paid off for them. 


A big part of the problem is they didn’t seem to get good ride and handling out of the CD6 platform for some reason.  At least not any better than the Telluride compared to the non ST Explorer.  The potential is there - maybe they just ran out of time.

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1 minute ago, akirby said:


A big part of the problem is they didn’t seem to get good ride and handling out of the CD6 platform for some reason.  At least not any better than the Telluride compared to the non ST Explorer.  The potential is there - maybe they just ran out of time.

I wonder since Ford was trying to separate the aviator from the explorer, Instead of using MacPherson strut design, the SLA suspension of the aviator should have went into the explorer also. 

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7 minutes ago, fordtech1 said:

I wonder since Ford was trying to separate the aviator from the explorer, Instead of using MacPherson strut design, the SLA suspension of the aviator should have went into the explorer also. 

 

I either didn't realize or forgot that it was a different suspension altogether (outside of the CCD).  I assume the ST has SLA?

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19 minutes ago, akirby said:

But even with struts it should outperform the Kia.

I have a hard time believing that a FWD biased suv doesn’t plow in hard cornering. 
I haven’t looked at all the skid pad results from all reviews. But some have said the explorer rides and handles well. It’s actually a positive. It’s about universal that the interior needs better materials.

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I personally never cared for KIA vehicles. They never appealed to me. However, they obviously are doing something right. 
To me Kia is like a spec built house. It has pretty flooring and counter tops, but the windows are vinyl and basic materials behind drywall. The spec home ideology is make it pretty maybe they won’t notice. 
 

Ford has been guilty of this too. 

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