MY93SHO Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stampede.Offroad Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Ford would seem to be significantly underrating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Yes they seem to be. 2020 6.7owners are reporting a significant improvement in power and acceleration. Some claim the turbo whistle is back for the 2020 model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 16 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said: Yes they seem to be. 2020 6.7owners are reporting a significant improvement in power and acceleration. Some claim the turbo whistle is back for the 2020 model. Must...resist...the urge... 2017 will be paid off in 3 weeks... Must...resist... Ahh, who am I kidding. I have plans to keep my 2017 for 10 years. I have plenty of power, but a bit of turbo whistle would be sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, fordmantpw said: Must...resist...the urge... 2017 will be paid off in 3 weeks... Must...resist... Ahh, who am I kidding. I have plans to keep my 2017 for 10 years. I have plenty of power, but a bit of turbo whistle would be sweet! I agree lol. My 15 (6years old this May) was paid off last year and just turned 52,000 miles. My plan is to keep mine for another 4-5 years and sell it with under 100k on it. Its value is holding very well but I'd love to have all the new features available today in them. Reality is, a divorce would be more costly lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sho94_2000 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I wonder if the reason for being disingenuous and underrating them is so that there is room to increase the numbers when the competition slight eclipses your numbers. They all do it but frankly the practice should stop. Just release what the actual numbers are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I have no doubt that the numbers are sandbagged quite a bit. They don't want another "99 Cobra". I've not been inside the 10R140 yet, but if it is to the 10R80 as the 6R140 was to the 6R80, drive line parasitic loss percentages are gonna change because the 10 speed does a lot of things to reduce frictional and inertial losses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) Mustang tests revealed that the new ten speed auto had less parasitic loss, something like 14% which changed the way dyno figures were reported. The 2020 6.7 Powerstroke has more power and torque but I wonder if this was as apples to apples as they claim, different gearbox and differential ratios. Edited January 2, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Mustang tests revealed that the new ten speed auto had less parasitic loss, something like 14% which changed the way dyno figures were reported. Dyno figures have nothing to do with parasitic loss. It’s just raw power at the wheels. You have to extrapolate the crank hp yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, akirby said: Dyno figures have nothing to do with parasitic loss. It’s just raw power at the wheels. You have to extrapolate the crank hp yourself. Sorry, you were correct, I miss spoke regarding parasitic loss I've conflated two points across two of my posts regarding the test, the point being that I'm a little dubious about the torque figures, let me explain. First the gearing 2019 6.7 6AT...........gearing chosen 0.85 x 3.55 = 3.02:1 2020 6.7 10AT...........gearing chosen 1.00 x 3.31 = 3.31:1....that's 10% more torque multiplication. As I understand it, the dyno measures the torque it's then converted to HP, if the gearing is 10% better then the torque will be too. With the same gearing the 2019 6.7 would show roughly 10% more torque, 1.1 x 410 hp / 401 lb ft. or 450 hp/440 lb ft versus 469 hp / 472 lb ft for the 2020. Point 2 - Correction factors applied by dyno operators. We shouldn't be seeing near crank rated HP and torque figures at the back wheels, even with the ten speed's 14% loss, it's more likely that conversion factors applied by the dyno operator is a bit optimistic - saw this with MotorTrend and C8 Corvette. I agree, the new 6.7 is much improved but some of the result may be different gearing, rather than Ford doing any sand bagging with power and torque numbers... but that doesn't mean owners won't feel the difference - if the change in rear axle gearing also goes with the change in gearbox then owners will feel 70-80 lb ft more torque. Edited January 3, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 While they didn't mention it in the video, I imagine they corrected the numbers for the gearing difference on the 19... Regardless, the numbers are still impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 On 1/2/2020 at 7:14 PM, jpd80 said: As I understand it, the dyno measures the torque it's then converted to HP, Only torque is measured. HP is calculated from torque at a given RPM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Two things mentioned were the torque difference starts way down at 2,000 rpm and the dyno giving up at 90 mph right before the 7.3 V8 peaked out on HP The whole point of the 7.3 V8 was to behave like the 6.8 V10 and give tons of low end torque I think this point is easily missed when the reviewer is more interested in peak torque and horsepower. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, SoonerLS said: Only torque is measured. HP is calculated from torque at a given RPM. And that what I said, "the dyno measure torque, it is then converted into horsepower". Edited January 4, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 minute ago, jpd80 said: And that what I fucking I said, "the dyno measure torque, it is then converted into horsepower". And I was confirming what you said, not trying to be disagreeable... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, SoonerLS said: And I was confirming what you said, not trying to be disagreeable... Sorry, there are some who like to knit pick. Moving along, Did you watch the new 7.3 dyno video? Thoughts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) The new 7.3 delivers the goods with low end torque, just like the 6.8 V10 used to only better. You can do no more than give buyers what they have been asking for and this new engine has low down torque in spades, everything an owner needs when towing and hauling. I can't wait to see how it tows on the Ike Gauntlet, I'm sure the guys will load it up to GCWR just as they did with the new HD Silverado. That really tests the NA engines at altitude as they lose about 30% of their power at the top of the run. The other test, fuel economy while towing at 70 mpg should be interesting, you'd think that a big lazy engine would be able to pull taller gears and settle down lower in the revs for better economy...We'll see soon enough. Edited January 4, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 28 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Moving along, Did you watch the new 7.3 dyno video? Thoughts? Thanks for posting it--I was actually waiting for it. I think that torque curve is about what we should've expected, given what the lead engineer said about the engine and its design parameters. It looks pretty consistent, getting the torque up low in the revs and keeping it there, plus it's a nice bump over the 6.2. I think you're right--the 6.2's days are numbered. There will be guys who will miss it (just like there are guys who miss the 5.4), but I don't think anyone who drives a 7.3 will be wishing they had a 6.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, SoonerLS said: Thanks for posting it--I was actually waiting for it. I think that torque curve is about what we should've expected, given what the lead engineer said about the engine and its design parameters. It looks pretty consistent, getting the torque up low in the revs and keeping it there, plus it's a nice bump over the 6.2. I think you're right--the 6.2's days are numbered. There will be guys who will miss it (just like there are guys who miss the 5.4), but I don't think anyone who drives a 7.3 will be wishing they had a 6.2. Thanks and sorry for misunderstanding your earlier posts. There is another TFL video where the team discuss the 6.2 vs 7.3 dyno results Roman was quite impressed with the torque across the range but Nathan expected more and felt that Ford was under delivering especially with what people were expecting from it. Nathan kept mentioning Ecoboost and the torque delivery from smaller engines but I think that he's forgetting that Ecoboost uses a lot more fuel when towing than large atmo gas engines. I dunno, folks don't drive dynos, how this engine behaves on the open road is way more important and I get the feeling that power/torque was traded for loaded engine fuel efficiency and if that's so, we may see the 7.3 V8 dispel a few reservations in the coming weeks. Edited January 4, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Thanks and sorry for misunderstanding your earlier posts. There is another TFL video where the team discuss the 6.2 vs 7.3 dyno results Roman was quite impressed with the torque across the range but Nathan expected more and felt that Ford was under delivering especially with what people were expecting from it. Nathan kept mentioning Ecoboost and the torque delivery from smaller engines but I think that he's forgetting that Ecoboost uses a lot more fuel when towing than large atmo gas engines. I dunno, folks don't drive dynos, how this engine behaves on the open road is way more important and I get the feeling that power/torque was traded for loaded engine fuel efficiency and if that's so, we may see the 7.3 V8 dispel a few reservations in the coming weeks. Nathan also referenced a 10% driveline loss. I and many others called him out on that. I doubt a HD pickup with 4 -wheel drive could get close to 10%. Any manufacturer that could do that would be crowing about it. I know it's in 2 wheel drive on the dyno but the t-case is still there and power still goes through it. If you go with 20% loss the 5-Star pulls come out to 429.6hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MY93SHO said: Nathan also referenced a 10% driveline loss. I and many others called him out on that. I doubt a HD pickup with 4 -wheel drive could get close to 10%. Any manufacturer that could do that would be crowing about it. I know it's in 2 wheel drive on the dyno but the t-case is still there and power still goes through it. If you go with 20% loss the 5-Star pulls come out to 429.6hp. Absolutely. Across all manufacturers, parasitic losses are usually 20% on the larger trucks, can't wait to see the 5-star tune results for both of these engines, there's a lot of factory torque management going on in the base programs. Also gonna recant my early comments regarding the 2020 6.7 Powerstroke, that thing is making way more power and torque than what Ford claims. Edited January 5, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Nathan kept mentioning Ecoboost and the torque delivery from smaller engines but I think that he's forgetting that Ecoboost uses a lot more fuel when towing than large atmo gas engines. I dunno, folks don't drive dynos, how this engine behaves on the open road is way more important and I get the feeling that power/torque was traded for loaded engine fuel efficiency and if that's so, we may see the 7.3 V8 dispel a few reservations in the coming weeks. Yeah, I think he's missing the point of the 7.3, and if he wasn't using numbers from the accounting firm of Smoking, Crack, & How, he'd realize that those dyno numbers show that Ford is seriously underrating the 7.3. If you go with the 20% loss figure, you're over 500ft-lbs of torque; if you go with the 15%, you're at 490ft-lbs, still well over the advertised 475ft-lbs. Heck, it wasn't that long ago when having those torque numbers meant you were filling up at the diesel pump... Edited January 5, 2020 by SoonerLS Damn you, autoincorrect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, SoonerLS said: Yeah, I think he's missing the point of the 7.3, and if he wasn't using numbers from the accounting firm of Smoking, Crack, & How, he'd realize that those dyno numbers show that Ford is seriously underrating the 7.3. If you go with the 20% loss figure, you're over 500ft-lbs of torque; if you go with the 15%, you're at 490ft-lbs, still well over the advertised 475ft-lbs. Heck, it wasn't that long ago when having those torque numbers meant you were filling up at the diesel pump... Absolutely. A Super Duty with 7.3 V8 and 4.3 gears is ready for heavy work and while it can't match the extreme towing numbers of the diesel, there's lots of financial benefits to buying a gas truck that operates well within maximums. Old Skool big blocks behave differently and their prowess doesn't really shine on dyno tests, when they leave the bottom of Ike gauntlet with max gross combined weight, perceptions will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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