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2019-20 6.7 dyno pulls


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16 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said:

Yes they seem to be.  2020 6.7owners are reporting a significant improvement in power and acceleration. Some claim the turbo whistle is back for the 2020 model.

 

Must...resist...the urge...

 

2017 will be paid off in 3 weeks...

 

Must...resist...

 

Ahh, who am I kidding.  I have plans to keep my 2017 for 10 years.  I have plenty of power, but a bit of turbo whistle would be sweet!

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3 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Must...resist...the urge...

 

2017 will be paid off in 3 weeks...

 

Must...resist...

 

Ahh, who am I kidding.  I have plans to keep my 2017 for 10 years.  I have plenty of power, but a bit of turbo whistle would be sweet!

 

I agree lol. My 15 (6years old this May) was paid off last year and just turned 52,000 miles.  

 

My plan is to keep mine for another 4-5 years and sell it with under 100k on it.  Its value is holding very well but I'd love to have all the new features available today in them.

 

Reality is, a divorce would be more costly lol.

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I have no doubt that the numbers are sandbagged quite a bit. They don't want another "99 Cobra". I've not been inside the 10R140 yet, but if it is to the 10R80 as the 6R140 was to the 6R80, drive line parasitic loss percentages are gonna change because the 10 speed does a lot of things to reduce frictional and inertial losses. 

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Mustang tests revealed that the new ten speed auto had less parasitic loss,

something like 14% which changed the way dyno figures were reported.

 

The 2020 6.7 Powerstroke has more power and torque but I wonder if this

was as apples to apples as they claim, different gearbox and differential ratios.

Edited by jpd80
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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Mustang tests revealed that the new ten speed auto had less parasitic loss,

something like 14% which changed the way dyno figures were reported.


Dyno figures have nothing to do with parasitic loss.  It’s just raw power at the wheels.  You have to extrapolate the crank hp yourself.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


Dyno figures have nothing to do with parasitic loss.  It’s just raw power at the wheels.  You have to extrapolate the crank hp yourself.

Sorry, you were correct, I miss spoke regarding parasitic loss

I've conflated two points across two of my posts regarding the test,

the point being that I'm a little dubious about the torque figures, let me explain.

First the gearing

2019 6.7 6AT...........gearing chosen  0.85 x 3.55 = 3.02:1

2020 6.7 10AT...........gearing chosen  1.00 x 3.31 = 3.31:1....that's 10% more torque multiplication.

 

As I understand it, the  dyno measures the torque it's then converted to HP, 

if the gearing is 10% better then the torque will be too.

With the same gearing the 2019 6.7 would show roughly 10% more torque,

1.1 x 410 hp / 401 lb ft.  or 450 hp/440 lb ft versus 469 hp / 472 lb ft for the 2020.

 

 

Point 2 - Correction factors applied by dyno operators.

We shouldn't be seeing  near crank rated HP and torque figures at the back wheels,

even with the ten speed's 14% loss, it's more likely  that conversion factors applied

by the dyno operator is a bit optimistic - saw this with MotorTrend and C8 Corvette.

 

I agree, the new 6.7 is much improved but some of the result may be different gearing,

rather than Ford doing any sand bagging with power and torque numbers...

but that doesn't mean owners won't feel the difference - if the change in rear axle  gearing

also goes with the change in gearbox then owners will feel 70-80 lb ft more torque.

 

Edited by jpd80
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Two things mentioned were the  torque  difference starts way down at 2,000 rpm 

and the dyno giving up at 90 mph right before the 7.3 V8 peaked out on HP

 

The whole point of the 7.3 V8 was to behave like the 6.8 V10 and give tons of low end torque

I think this point is easily missed when the reviewer is more interested in  peak torque and horsepower.

 

 

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The new 7.3 delivers the goods with low end torque, just like the 6.8 V10 used to only better.

You can do no more than give buyers what they have been asking for and this new engine

has low down torque in spades, everything an owner needs when towing and hauling.

 

I can't wait to see how it tows on the Ike Gauntlet, I'm sure the guys will load it up to GCWR

just as they did with the new HD Silverado. That really tests the NA engines at altitude as

they lose about 30% of their power at the top of the run.

 

The other test, fuel economy while towing at 70 mpg should be interesting, you'd think that

a big lazy engine would be able to pull taller gears and settle down lower in the revs for

better economy...We'll see soon enough.

Edited by jpd80
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28 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Moving along,

Did you watch the new 7.3 dyno video?

Thoughts?

Thanks for posting it--I was actually waiting for it.

 

I think that torque curve is about what we should've expected, given what the lead engineer said about the engine and its design parameters. It looks pretty consistent, getting the torque up low in the revs and keeping it there, plus it's a nice bump over the 6.2.

 

I think you're right--the 6.2's days are numbered. There will be guys who will miss it (just like there are guys who miss the 5.4), but I don't think anyone who drives a 7.3 will be wishing they had a 6.2.

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17 minutes ago, SoonerLS said:

Thanks for posting it--I was actually waiting for it.

 

I think that torque curve is about what we should've expected, given what the lead engineer said about the engine and its design parameters. It looks pretty consistent, getting the torque up low in the revs and keeping it there, plus it's a nice bump over the 6.2.

 

I think you're right--the 6.2's days are numbered. There will be guys who will miss it (just like there are guys who miss the 5.4), but I don't think anyone who drives a 7.3 will be wishing they had a 6.2.

Thanks and sorry for misunderstanding your earlier posts.

There is another TFL video where the team discuss the 6.2 vs 7.3 dyno results

Roman was quite impressed with the torque across the range but Nathan expected more

and felt that Ford was under delivering especially with what people were expecting from it.

 

Nathan kept mentioning Ecoboost and the torque delivery from smaller engines but I think that

he's forgetting that Ecoboost uses a lot more fuel when towing than  large atmo gas engines.

I dunno, folks don't drive dynos, how this engine behaves on the open road is way more important

and I get the feeling that power/torque was traded for loaded engine fuel efficiency and if that's so,

we may see the 7.3 V8 dispel a few reservations in the coming weeks.

 

Edited by jpd80
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3 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Thanks and sorry for misunderstanding your earlier posts.

There is another TFL video where the team discuss the 6.2 vs 7.3 dyno results

Roman was quite impressed with the torque across the range but Nathan expected more

and felt that Ford was under delivering especially with what people were expecting from it.

 

Nathan kept mentioning Ecoboost and the torque delivery from smaller engines but I think that

he's forgetting that Ecoboost uses a lot more fuel when towing than  large atmo gas engines.

I dunno, folks don't drive dynos, how this engine behaves on the open road is way more important

and I get the feeling that power/torque was traded for loaded engine fuel efficiency and if that's so,

we may see the 7.3 V8 dispel a few reservations in the coming weeks.

 

Nathan also referenced a 10% driveline loss. I and many others called him out on that. I doubt a HD pickup  with 4 -wheel drive could get close to 10%.  Any manufacturer that could do that would be crowing about it.

 

I know it's in 2 wheel drive on the dyno but the t-case is still there and power still goes through it.

If you go with 20% loss the 5-Star pulls come out to 429.6hp.

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7 minutes ago, MY93SHO said:

Nathan also referenced a 10% driveline loss. I and many others called him out on that. I doubt a HD pickup  with 4 -wheel drive could get close to 10%.  Any manufacturer that could do that would be crowing about it.

 

I know it's in 2 wheel drive on the dyno but the t-case is still there and power still goes through it.

If you go with 20% loss the 5-Star pulls come out to 429.6hp.

Absolutely. Across all manufacturers, parasitic losses are usually 20% on the larger trucks,

can't wait to see the 5-star tune results for both of these  engines, there's a lot of factory

torque management going on in the base programs.

 

Also gonna recant my early comments regarding the 2020 6.7 Powerstroke,

that thing is making way more power and torque than what Ford claims.

Edited by jpd80
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43 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Nathan kept mentioning Ecoboost and the torque delivery from smaller engines but I think that

he's forgetting that Ecoboost uses a lot more fuel when towing than  large atmo gas engines.

I dunno, folks don't drive dynos, how this engine behaves on the open road is way more important

and I get the feeling that power/torque was traded for loaded engine fuel efficiency and if that's so,

we may see the 7.3 V8 dispel a few reservations in the coming weeks.

Yeah, I think he's missing the point of the 7.3, and if he wasn't using numbers from the accounting firm of Smoking, Crack, & How, he'd realize that those dyno numbers show that Ford is seriously underrating the 7.3. If you go with the 20% loss figure, you're over 500ft-lbs of torque; if you go with the 15%, you're at 490ft-lbs, still well over the advertised 475ft-lbs.

 

Heck, it wasn't that long ago when having those torque numbers meant you were filling up at the diesel pump...

Edited by SoonerLS
Damn you, autoincorrect!
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1 hour ago, SoonerLS said:

Yeah, I think he's missing the point of the 7.3, and if he wasn't using numbers from the accounting firm of Smoking, Crack, & How, he'd realize that those dyno numbers show that Ford is seriously underrating the 7.3. If you go with the 20% loss figure, you're over 500ft-lbs of torque; if you go with the 15%, you're at 490ft-lbs, still well over the advertised 475ft-lbs.

 

Heck, it wasn't that long ago when having those torque numbers meant you were filling up at the diesel pump...

Absolutely.

A Super Duty with 7.3 V8 and 4.3 gears is ready for heavy work and while it can't match the extreme towing

numbers of the diesel, there's lots of financial benefits to buying a gas truck that operates well within maximums.

 

Old Skool big blocks behave differently and their prowess doesn't really shine on dyno tests,

when they leave the bottom of Ike gauntlet with  max gross combined weight, perceptions will change.

 

 

 

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